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British Airways In Talks About Buying 747Adv  
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 17
Posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14747 times:

Is this the first confirmation yet that Birtish Airways is looking for new jumbos??

Cheers,

Ric
----


http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/ar...?in_article_id=401081&in_page_id=2

Broughton also disclosed that BA was in talks about buying an advanced version of the 747 jumbo jet if Boeing decides to go ahead with the model.

He hinted that BA might replace its present 747 fleet with American planes rather than the new giant Airbus A380.


Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
127 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11979 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14716 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Thread starter):
Broughton also disclosed that BA was in talks about buying an advanced version of the 747 jumbo jet if Boeing decides to go ahead with the model.

If Boeing goes ahead with the 747ADV, I think BA and CX would probably be two of its first customers. Both would likely be enticed by lower unit operating costs, but the capacity between the 777 and A380 behemoth.

Quoting BoeingBus (Thread starter):
He hinted that BA might replace its present 747 fleet with American planes rather than the new giant Airbus A380.

I think this is highly likely, and I doubt that BA will ever fly the A380. It completely flys (no pun intended) in the face of their entire business model for the last ten years and is simply far too big for all but maybe 2 or 3 routes in their entire network.


User currently offline707lvr From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 585 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14665 times:

Is it just me, or does this statement:

"It (BA) is considering either copying no-frills airlines by making passengers pay for their meals, or offering even more luxury to premium passengers,"

pretty much give people the choice of flying like The Queen or like luggage? Isn't there some formula which would provide travel that most people want?


User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14653 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Thread starter):
BA was in talks about buying an advanced version of the 747 jumbo jet if Boeing decides to go ahead with the model.

... to be the first airline to fly it with 3 engines.  biggrin 

Only one customer is too few. Don`t expect an anouncement in Paris.

Axel



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14598 times:

I think the reference to ShortHaul luxury refers to an improved Club Europe product currently on trial. With BD abandoning business on all routes where it competes with BA except BRU (EDI/GLA are economy only with BA) then it might be possible that Club Europe will stay. Maybe LGW will become an economy only operation though with the focus on leisure routes.

If BA and CX did opt for the 747ADV then could they try and force Boeing's hands to offer RR engines as an option? These two carriers operate 76 RR powered 747-400s between them, plus CX has 6 RR powered freighters. Might not want GE engines forced on them.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14535 times:

What I have heard is that GE has adapted the 7E7 engines to be bleed versions for the A350 as well as the 747, where as RR has not yet... the problem is not Boeing or Airbus for that matter but RR to solve...

Cheers



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14528 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 4):
If BA and CX did opt for the 747ADV then could they try and force Boeing's hands to offer RR engines as an option? These two carriers operate 76 RR powered 747-400s between them, plus CX has 6 RR powered freighters. Might not want GE engines forced on them.

Both BA and CX have expressed interest in the 773ER which isn't every going to have a RR engine, so it is not likely an issue for them. The GENx choice for the 747Adv also stems from ease of adaptation issues.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineN60659 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 654 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14470 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 4):
If BA and CX did opt for the 747ADV then could they try and force Boeing's hands to offer RR engines as an option? These two carriers operate 76 RR powered 747-400s between them, plus CX has 6 RR powered freighters. Might not want GE engines forced on them.

IIRC, wasn't one of the reasons for GE's exclusivity on the 747Adv have to deal with it being the better option for the bleed air version of the GEnx over the RR Trent 1000?

-N60659



Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14406 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 4):
These two carriers operate 76 RR powered 747-400s between them, plus CX has 6 RR powered freighters. Might not want GE engines forced on them.

BA also opperates a large fleet of GE powered 777. They weren't satisfied with EOS, but the bulk of their fleet remains Ge90 powered. Likewise, CX hasn't included RR engines as part of their ongoing RFP, and the best product in that class (the 773ER) is only available with GE engines.

You are putting a little to much stock in the engine supplier issue.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 1):
Both would likely be enticed by lower unit operating costs, but the capacity between the 777 and A380 behemoth.

The exact economics are yet unkown, but like you say, the trip cost will definitly be lower for the Adv. Seat economics should be competitive.

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 3):
Only one customer is too few. Don`t expect an anouncement in Paris.

This is strong indication that there are more than one passenger airline in negotiations with Boeing for the Adv. This isn't even factoring in cargo carriers, namely Cargolux, who could also help launch the Adv.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14397 times:

If Boeing is to proceed with the 747A, it needs BA as one of the launch customers.......BA has been commited to Boeing for longhaul for ages, it has a huge 744 fleet that will need replacement over time, and BA has stated that it thinks that the A380 is just too big for its needs and "downsizing" at slot restricted LHR is not really an attractive option.

With respect to the 747A, its more and more NOW or NEVER for Boeing....if it could land a 747A order from BA and maybe CX, the 747A program maybe can get off the ground. There is big gap in the market, between the A346/773 and the A380, maybe Boeing can fill it with the 747A and get the airline's attention.


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7438 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14371 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Seems like a far cry from the, "Prediction: BA will purchase the A380."


Made from jets!
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2821 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14316 times:

The BA debate happens on a regular basis. I think BA will buy Tupolevs for no other reason than to annoy us a.netters.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14270 times:

Quoting Glom (Reply 11):
The BA debate happens on a regular basis. I think BA will buy Tupolevs for no other reason than to annoy us a.netters.

Funny, but this time I think that its getting serious - both BA (and some other key carriers) and Boeing must make a decision about the future of the 747 project. If there will be a direct successor to the 747 program, the airlines need to know very soon or they will look to other alternatives.


User currently offlineAZA330 From Italy, joined Feb 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14175 times:

are there any informations about how big the 747ADV will be? Just like the current 747? I was wondering if BA is really intrested in changing their 747 in more efficient 747 while a lot of their competitors are buying the A380 (according to me, with the A380 the airlines will be able to offer a better service to passengers).

Ciao  Smile


User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2821 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14145 times:

Quoting AZA330:
are there any informations about how big the 747ADV will be?

Loads of posts about it. It's a small stretch giving an extra 40 seats. It is intended to sit in between the 773ER and the A388.

Quoting AZA330:
I was wondering if BA is really intrested in changing their 747 in more efficient 747 while a lot of their competitors are buying the A380 (according to me, with the A380 the airlines will be able to offer a better service to passengers).

It depends on layout. Anyone could use a low density config on the 747ADV to give loads of cool things.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14118 times:

BA's goal no doubt is to occupy as many slots as it can get away with at LHR, so that it can limit competition. Sudden large increases in capacity from switching to an aircraft like the A380 could lead to overcapacity which could lead to a situation where they cannot profitably use all of their slots.


ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14118 times:

Quoting AZA330 (Reply 13):
are there any informations about how big the 747ADV will be?

Yes, the 747-Adv will be stretched several frames to allow 448 seats in Boeing's three-class demo configuration. See link below-

http://www.boeing.com/randy/archives/photos/rb_747a_lg1.html

Quoting AZA330 (Reply 13):
I was wondering if BA is really intrested in changing their 747 in more efficient 747 while a lot of their competitors are buying the A380

The A388 will still maintain a sizeable advantage in terms of floor area, so it's true A380 opperators can be a little more creative and liberal with their premium product.

The 747-Adv will have some major trump cards of its own. For example, the Adv will weigh 175,000 lbs less than the A388 but carry only 25,000 lbs less payload. The Adv also requires less airport modification than the A388, meaning greater flexibility in network planning.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14080 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 16):
The A388 will still maintain a sizeable advantage in terms of floor area, so it's true A380 opperators can be a little more creative and liberal with their premium product.

Since the A380 appears to have less cargo capacity on a per passenger basis, this may necessitate reducing passenger count and thus increasing per passenger space to accomodate passenger luggage along with extra revenue cargo.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14077 times:

Quoting AZA330 (Reply 13):
are there any informations about how big the 747ADV will be?

The passenger version will be stretched 80 inches (203cm) forward of the wing (including the hump) plus 60 inches (152cm) following the wing. Also the wingspan will increase due to different wingtips.


User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14043 times:

Give it a few more days and then we'll hear that Tony Blair got a letter from Peter Mandelson asking him why BA is not talking to Airbus about the A380!  Smile  bigthumbsup 

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2491 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14043 times:

Only one customer is too few. Don`t expect an anouncement in Paris.

Axel


since the 747adv won't be an entire new model, the Design costs will be lower....

and with BA having one of the biggest 747 fleets, as well as CX wich still buy's them and is rapidly expanding, this may be good for about 70 orders. since i don't see airlines like KLM , AF , LH , JAL, CI , AI replacing theire aging 747 fleet with a to big A380 (not on all markets) and a bit to small A340-600/777-300ER i would assume they will go for the 747adv...


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4417 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14021 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 16):
The A388 will still maintain a sizeable advantage in terms of floor area, so it's true A380 opperators can be a little more creative and liberal with their premium product.

Not really - Airbus is AGAIN forcing A380 customers to shed more weight off of their cabin plans, which will likely eliminate many of the already pie-in-the-sky ideas envisioned for the plane.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAZA330 From Italy, joined Feb 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13964 times:

ok, thanks for the info  Smile

I remember some posts on this forum, months ago, that said that Boeing stopped the development of the improved version of the 747, so I was wondering if this was a different version, but it looks like it is the same aircraft of those posts some time ago.

I was wondering if the 747adv is more economical to fly, even if it can carry about 100 less passengers...


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13963 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 20):
this may be good for about 70 orders.

70 orders would certainly exceed the number needed to break even _IF_ Boeing can sell enough B747-400s (probably as part of the B747Adv deals) to keep the line open until B747Adv production starts.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 13870 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 23):
70 orders would certainly exceed the number needed to break even _IF_ Boeing can sell enough B747-400s (probably as part of the B747Adv deals) to keep the line open until B747Adv production starts.

There has been speculation that the 744 could be re-engined with 747Adv engines, which could depress the market for 747Advs. However, I wonder if by the same token that 744s sold during this period could have a re-engine option offered to create a 747-Not-so-Adv.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
25 Scotron11 : Seems like a far cry from the, "Prediction: BA will purchase the A380." It is critical that Boeing receive new orders for their present 747/767 model
26 Post contains images FlyAUA : So much for their "cost cutting" and "restructuring" and "we are not going to purchase any aircraft for the time being"...
27 Glom : That was one of the scenarios Boeing had studied but it attracted little interest because without other changes, the improvements weren't enough to j
28 N60659 : The biggest difference between the 747-500,747-600, 747400XQLR etc. - availability of powerplants that makes the economics of the 747 truly viable in
29 Zvezda : I think an ability to refit existing B747-400s with the GEnx engine would be very popular, but I don't think it would significantly depress the marke
30 Trex8 : Tony and Peter are as close as you get without being spouses! If it wasn't for Peter, Tony would never have been Labor party leader and PM. They won'
31 Ikramerica : Any chance of seeing a 745 and 746? At 11ft stretch, the 747Adv would still be shorter than or equal to the A380, 773, and 346. But they need to rebui
32 Post contains images Steve7E7 : Perish the very idea!! I reckon they're sleeping together.
33 Agill : Am I missing something? Normaly people seem to dismiss everything in articles, at least when it's vague like this, but this time people seem to take i
34 Zvezda : The B747Adv would retain the wing of the B747-400. Only the wingtips would change.
35 Ikramerica : Also, part of the gain in seats, vs. length, can be achieved by using the crown of the main cabin as crew rest similar to the 777 longer range product
36 Zvezda : Boeing have been actively talking about this.
37 WhiteHatter : It's an interesting article. Broughton, however, is the chairman and not in the main driving seat. Willie Walsh will be in a position to do the steeri
38 Post contains images Clickhappy : I already told you BA QA and CX for 10 each 747ADV @ Paris, the rumor of the past few weeks in Seattle.
39 Atmx2000 : They were evaluating both engines for the 747Adv so it can't be a result of the 777 GE deal. I suspect GE will be aggressive about keeping the 747Adv
40 PlaneSmart : They've offered prospects multiple options, firmed up one derivative, offered a stunning launch package bundled with 744, 777 & 787, and now finally
41 Post contains images Co7772wuh : I beg to differ . Though , I see your point . However , Boeing was correct about the 787 ! The success of the 787 is obvious . And most likely correc
42 Atmx2000 : Unless they are concerned about monopoly reasons only, I don't see why they would object to the GE 777LRs. The performance and reliability of the com
43 PlaneSmart : My point has nothing to do with reliability or being untested, and everything to do with listening and responding to customers. CX and BA are the fro
44 Dutchjet : Potential launch customers for the 747A at the moment are: BA - huge 744 fleet, based at slot controlled LHR, has repeatedly stated that the A380 is s
45 Agill : Wasn't it they who said that they wouldn't use the 474A?
46 Lemurs : Only so far here...B also needs financing help and risk-sharing on these exclusivity deals, and they need to justify the costs of integration for mul
47 PlaneSmart : I'm not saying CX & BA want RR. They may order GE. My point is highlighting that B is stressing choice as key sales feature for 787 sales, and to kee
48 DfwRevolution : I don't think the 787 is stressing that at all. Many configurations that were optional with previous generation Boeings are now standardized. Boeing
49 Post contains links and images DfwRevolution : They are rumored to be including the 747-Advanced in an upcoming RFP. Yes, they did say they would misuse A388/773ER, but it appears they are taking
50 Lemurs : I don't think that's a fair comparison however. Offering choices to appeal to the broadest possible range of customers on a brand new airframe that t
51 LTBEWR : It is good to see BA putting out interest in the 747Adv and hope this give the program the kick start it needs. I would also add LY and China Air (PRC
52 3201 : This is the way the distribution of wealth in the world has been going, so why not design your product offerings to match it? In other words, this pr
53 Post contains images Propulsion : I dare someone to disagree with this statement!!!
54 PlaneSmart : I don't disagree. But when the two most likely launch prospects have a known pre-disposition for a particular engine brand, and preference not to be
55 Post contains images Co7772wuh :    Please let me paraphase that ! Every lost A380 order is a bigger blow to AB than a lost ADV order for Boeing !   [Edited 2005-06-06 04:02:21]
56 Lemurs : Very true. I can't imagine this didn't occur to Boeing as well. I would love to have been a fly on the wall for some of these decisions, because I wo
57 United Airline : Umm..... Yes they did. But maybe they want to send this 'I don't need you' message to Boeing in order to get a better deal..... if Boeing builds the
58 PlaneSmart : Think in time we will discover the GE 777 exclusive / risk-sharing deal and the 747ADV are linked. B need to be careful with the GE relationship, and
59 DfwRevolution : It's much more likely that Boeing would take portions of GE Aero before GE took a stake of BCA. How does GE exclusivity on two products screw custome
60 Ikramerica : Just like the 777 longer range, with a small market, it's not cost effective to offer two. GE was chosen on those because it could deliver, and it has
61 Post contains images Atmx2000 : Linked because of some a deal made beforehand, or linked because of a relationship that was built up? I don't see how they could have made a deal reg
62 PlaneSmart : The World has changed. When launched, do you think the replacement 737 and A32 models will be offered with one engine option each? Low-volume models
63 Abba : Well - I think it is important to notice how the article begins. It is stated here quite clearly that BA wants a ten percent margin before they see th
64 Atmx2000 : If RR's engine is the problem, Boeing isn't creating obstacles.
65 N60659 : While I do understand your point, the fact remains that, if the operational economics and support promised by GE on a GEnx powered 747Adv adds to an
66 Lemurs : This is true, but it could also be said easily about RR. If I'm not mistaken, RR had the best operating costs on the original A market 772's, which w
67 Post contains images United Airline : Still they can order it for routes with high demand such as NRT-LHR. But it seems that they have expressed more interest in the B 747 Advanced than t
68 Abba : [quote=United Airline,reply=67] But it seems that they have expressed more interest in the B 747 Advanced than the A 380. They are pushing the B 747 A
69 PlaneSmart : But we are dealing with people. If a.net opinions accurately reflect reality, A340 sales should have ceased 12 mths ago, and all long distance flight
70 MidnightMike : Boeing announced the 777-200LR program with only two customers. The 747Advanced is not a brand new design, so the cost is not as high as a new progra
71 United Airline : Maybe Boeing can sell a few B 747-400s at VERY LOW price to keep the line going????
72 Zvezda : Clearly, Boeing will have to sell some B747-400s at low prices to keep the line open. One possibility is that they will sell B747-400/B747Adv pairs.
73 Columba : Lufthansa stated several times that they are interested in the 747Adv. I can think that it will be interesting for them in both versions as cargo and
74 PM : This keeps coming up but let's remember that Aer Lingus's first A330s were already built (for Air Inter?) and came with GE. That's what was available
75 Abba : This seems to me to be a highly unusual business stragety! You must buy one of our old models to be able to buy a new one! If demand was huge for the
76 EGTESkyGod : At the risk of getting a cyber-kicking, whats going to be different on the 747Adv? Extended top deck? Extended range? Increase in size? Any pics of it
77 BlueShamu330s : You know, Airliners.net is the only place I keep hearing this rumour "Psssst, BA are about to buy loads of Boeing 747 ADVs." Everyone I speak to, incl
78 Post contains links Zvezda : 1) new GEnx engines, 2) stretched 80 inches before the wing (including upper deck) and 60 inches after the wing, and 3) blended wingtips instead of w
79 EGTESkyGod : I feel another kicking coming, but i've never seen blended wingtips, i don't think.
80 N79969 : I wish GDB would chime in. He is a BA person and knows how much veracity there is to this news. There was talk of GE acquiring Boeing in the late 1990
81 Post contains links and images DfwRevolution : They are already featured on the 764ER, 773ER, and 772LR. They will also be used on the 777F, 787, MMA, and obviously 747-Adv. Here are some pictures
82 Post contains links and images SNATH : Zvezda, The renderings that I've seen have only shown it with raked wing tips. From http://www.boeing.com/randy/archives/2005/02/advancing_the_q_1.htm
83 Zvezda : If Boeing do not go forward with the B747Adv, then I will expect Boeing to develop an all new B777-300/B747 replacement as soon as engines for it can
84 Post contains images Zvezda : Oops! Too late to edit my post.
85 Abba : I fail to see that! Who want to buy the latest baked over bread from yesterday? You'll get it cheap! The problem with the 747 seems to be that it get
86 United Airline : BA should buy the B 747 Advanced as a B 747-400 replacement. Afterall it is a bigger aircraft
87 Zvezda : If, as claimed by Boeing, the B747Adv can beat the CASM of the WhaleJet, then privately owned airlines will not care that it is based on an old desig
88 Glom : The definition of new is often misused as well. The 747ADV will be newer than the A380. Just because the original 747s were rolled out decades ago, i
89 Post contains links and images SNATH : Dfw, As far as I know, the B737NGs have blended winglets (as well as the new kit for B757s that CO ordered): View Large View MediumPhoto © Weimen
90 Keesje : Broughton will make sure he is smiling and laughing with Mullaly and has a B744 adv model in his hands while Leahy walks past the Boeing boot at Le Bo
91 Abba : CASM is indeed part of the equation - but it is not everything (or it can be calculated in different ways). No matter what, an 747 adv (which will be
92 Commavia : I think Airbus pretty much gave up on A380s every flying in BA colors a long time ago. Airbus knows where BA goes when it wants widebodies, and BA ha
93 Glom : A -1000!? And everyone thought the 388 was going to have airport compatibility problems. Anyway, don't count on it anytime soon. The 389 won't be aro
94 Sjoerd : Much to do about nothing... If only BA had the money to buy new planes. The way I read it is that for the first 2 years coming BA will try to reduce i
95 GDB : Only a couple of posters seemed to know about, or taken into account, two factors; 1) BA are not buying, not until a 10% operating margin is achieved,
96 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Eventualy can be years away... I don't think so. Airbus isn't the kind of company to stop trying. They've been knocking on the door for years now and
97 Post contains images Lockheed1011 : Another customer for the 747ADV! Even VS will have to get them, the A380 is running behind schedule.
98 DAYflyer : Sounds like a page taken right from the NW playbook. I think this is the likely scenario, they will wait until more profitable or less debt, then upg
99 WorldXplorer : Amen to that. I hear they still knock on Southwest's door on a regular basis. Airbus doesn't sell the number of frames they do by taking "no" for an
100 FRAspotter : Since Boeing renamed the 7E7 the 787 and Airbus renamed the A3XX the A380, do you think that Boeing will rename the 747ADV the 747-500 if they decide
101 Zvezda : It seems most likely, yes, Boeing would rename the B747Adv to the B747-500, but some have speculated that Boeing might rename it to the B747-800 beca
102 Post contains images DfwRevolution : Herb has been know to carry around an Airbus cigarette lighter. In one negotiation session with Boeing, he "accidently" dropped it, and asked the Boe
103 Post contains images Lehpron : Duh, Boeing has been the primary company for longhaul for ages, now they have more options and you think they will stick? Fine by me. I doubt we real
104 GDB : If FlyAUA wants to believe a report in a tabloid UK newspaper, fine, but what I hear from the inside is consistent. So cost cutting and restructuring
105 Post contains images Co7772wuh : Sounds like BA may be doing what CO did . Once CO cut costs , they bought approximately 1 billion dollars worth of a/c . The 787 !
106 Commavia : Well, if I'm wrong, then let me rephrase: IMHO, if Airbus has not yet given up on ever seeing an A380 in BA colors, they should, as I highly doubt th
107 Post contains images JeffSFO : Fair question, but it was your choice of words that gave me a good laugh. Would love to see "747-Not-so-Adv" printed in Boeing's marketing literature
108 Post contains images Shamrock_747 : Of course, being a network based at a near empty airport with slots freely available...
109 ContnlEliteCMH : I agree, but not because "the world has changed." Certainly, if it has changed, it's changed for the better because of GE's quality (RR ain't bad, ei
110 QFA001 : The cost of this would be huge. The GEnx is a lot heavier and bigger than a CF6. So, there would be considerable changes required to the rear spar, w
111 Jacobin777 : you may be correct, but paying down debt/cost cutting/restructuring is something which they are doing at the present moment.......potentially getting
112 Ikramerica : With a whopping total of 5 firm orders. And currently, it's still only five. The 777F is of course based on it. Of course many carriers have open ord
113 United Airline : Really stupid not to have FBW....
114 PM : "Another customer"? There aren't ANY yet! Of course. Your A380s will be six months late so you order a plane that will be ready in five years... Ther
115 PM : "Another customer"? There aren't ANY yet! Of course. Your A380s will be six months late so you order a plane that will be ready in five years... Ther
116 WINGS : I can not actually see Airbus standing around with their arms crossed looking at Boeing as they rack up these potential A380 customers. If the final g
117 Zvezda : An A380-700 would be too heavy to compete with a B747Adv. There is no way that a baby WhaleJet could match the JumboJet in CASM. The only way for Air
118 WINGS : Does anyone have any info as to what the A380-700 would be offering and its specs. With a new wing and further use of composites would it be possible
119 Glom : Not really given that redesigning the aircraft to include FBW would make it very expensive and not be worth the weight savings. FBW is overrated here
120 Zvezda : An A380-700 would absolutely need a new wing. The A380-800's wing was sized for an A380-900. Also note that the A380-800 wing spar is a complex compo
121 WINGS : What is the estimated cost of the upgraded B747ADV?
122 Avek00 : When adjusted for size, the A388 carries over ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND pounds of dead weight compared to the 744ADV - the A387 would end up carrying even
123 Zvezda : Probably less than $1 billion. All they are doing is a fuselage stretch (not expensive), developing new pylons to fit different engines (also not exp
124 Trex8 : and probably because RR will need even more launch aid for a new Trent version from the UK govt ouch, don't ever let anyone from China or Taiwan hear
125 Glacote : Nice to share anecdots like this. This "sounds right" - but do you have any evidence ? For sure it wouldn't be as efficient as a design from scratch
126 Atmx2000 : I thought the suggestion was that the RR engine was superior as a bleedless engine, not easier to adapt. That wouldn't say anything about how easy it
127 Trex8 : I'm no engineer but my take on it was that the 3 spool design allowed you to easily tap power of the ?IP stage without affecting the others deleterio
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