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YX All Time "low" In A/C Damage  
User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3548 times:

Well last week we had an all time "low" for a/c damages, 3 total...1 717 and 2 328s I believe. The 717 was damaged with a catering truck (catering now done by skyway), hope it wasn't one of the new trucks we finally got. I've only heard about one of the skyex planes, lav guy got out of the tug to run inside to put the blue packet down the lav, tug got lose and fit the plane. And yes leaving a running tug alone is a big no no, not to mention at an angle it could impact an aircraft.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineVivavegas From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 505 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3507 times:

Quoting SkyexRamper (Thread starter):
Well last week we had an all time "low" for a/c damages, 3 total...1 717 and 2 328s I believe. The 717 was damaged with a catering truck (catering now done by skyway), hope it wasn't one of the new trucks we finally got. I've only heard about one of the skyex planes, lav guy got out of the tug to run inside to put the blue packet down the lav, tug got lose and fit the plane. And yes leaving a running tug alone is a big no no, not to mention at an angle it could impact an aircraft.

Ya, and the point of your post?? These are all the same points you mentioned a few weeks back. Guess what the airline is still in business, and the stock is showing some nice gains.

Bashing YX will not get your job back, Move On!

Craig
MKE



MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
User currently offlineMidEx717 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3422 times:

Wow a all time "low". There should never be any accidents. But of course there will be a lot more accidents because there are many employees(Skyway) who don't give a care if they hit a airplane or not. Plus I have seen employees that don't wear ear protection around the airplanes when they arrive. Also a few weeks ago I saw a employee that backed the lav truck at gate D43 without a marshaller. When I worked for Midwest Airlines on the ramp that was taught in the training course. I guess that employee missed that part of the class. Thank God he didn't hit the plane or he might get promoted to a supervisor.

It was not a B-717 that got hit by a catering truck it was a MD-80(N807ME). The wing tip was still getting worked on today and who knows when the plane will go back into service. They should get rid of the rest of the employee's at Midwest except for the pilots and flight attendants and have Skyway run the operation. It's only a matter of time. Cut the bottom employee's and never management that's the Midwest way.


User currently offlineSideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3308 times:

807 is out of service for a crack found in the engine gear box. Not for the damaged wingtip. Sure it doesn't help matters but that is not the reason. If it wasn't for the gearbox change the plane would have been returned to service already.

And all the time I've been working on the flight line in MKE I've seen all kinds of people backing up to aircraft without marshallers along with other things. I even had a ramper run into me while I was driving a maint van one day because he was going too fast in the snow in his bag tug. This is not a new thing to this or any other airline. How about the people in MCI that tried to pick up the airplane with the jetway and bent the door last week. Should we blame that one on Skyway too. This whole situation sucks for all of us here at Midwest but lets be realistic.


User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2451 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3296 times:

Quoting SkyexRamper (Thread starter):
Well last week we had an all time "low" for a/c damages, 3 total...1 717 and 2 328s I believe.

3 is the least they've ever damaged in a week?



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3270 times:

Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 1):
Bashing YX will not get your job back, Move On!

What are you talking about, Midwest rampers were fired not skyway.

And I was just bring up the incidents as other people have posted about other airlines getting a/c damage...

Quoting MidEx717 (Reply 2):
Plus I have seen employees that don't wear ear protection around the airplanes when they arrive.

We use to have people who would work D52 w/o hearing protection which is totally insane.

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 4):

No, that's the most ever in one week. By "low" I mean unbelievable.


User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3708 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3240 times:
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I believe the Skyway rampers also managed to smash out the nose gear lights on a 717 with a tow bar this weekend. This kind of crap was predicted by those of us who are familiar with the situation, and I am glad to be able to say I told you so.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3213 times:

Just make sure you Skyway rampers don't hurt any of my US planes in MKE.  wink 

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2451 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3205 times:

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 5):
No, that's the most ever in one week. By "low" I mean unbelievable.

I didn't say most, I said

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 4):
3 is the least they've ever damaged in a week?

Anyway, I'm confused. Is this a good number? How many do they normally damage? How about other airlines...? I don't work in aviation...but I would think that a "LOW" of 3 damaged airplanswould be totally unacceptable.... let alone more. I'm not trying to knock them, but I just think that's a lot of damanged planes.....



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3708 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3185 times:
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SOAC, it's a matter of time before these hacks will put a US planer out of service.

Cactus, three damages in a week is terrible. Someone needs to get a grip on theses issues. I am posting the link to the thread that was started when YX announced that it would outsource their ramp. Theses kinds of events were predicted.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/1981609/



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 8):
but I would think that a "LOW" of 3 damaged airplanswould be totally unacceptable

Yes it is....that kind of what I was getting at.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 9):

Hey AT37...and people thought we were just talk'n smack way back when.

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 7):

We can't possibly do that cause skyex isn't training any MKE rampers. Some reason they are training people from our outstations to do it, go figure. HR slacked off and we barely have enough people to run our own YX ramp let alone another 2 gates and 8 flights. I dought any MKE rampers will get trained before August.


User currently offlineMidway2AirTran From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 864 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3040 times:

There are also long-time $20/hr rampers causing similiar problems at a major carrier near you! All the safety training and experience in the world can never seem to stop the ignorance that develops when you include the pressures faced while out turning flights and connecting baggage; experienced or not! Safety on the Ramp is not complicated at all, its common sense.


"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
User currently offlineSideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2997 times:

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 11):
There are also long-time $20/hr rampers causing similar problems at a major carrier near you!

Exactly. This kind of thing happens all the time at every airline in the world. You just never hear about it unless some passengers end up getting hurt when the aircraft gets hit by something. You guys seem to think this is a problem that is only common to Midwest/Skyway, and only now that the ramp has changed over. I could sit here for a long time and think of plenty of damage caused by our old ramp and also sky chefs. From hitting the planes to too many lav spills to count. And yes, that is still A/C damage when you fill the bag pits with blue juice because you don't know what 5 gals means.

Was getting rid of the ramp a bad decision. In my opinion yes it was. So was firing 2/3's of the mechanics, but that doesn't mean that every delay now is caused by the lack of experience on the maintenance side of things. I'm sure we will get weekly reports now if they don't damage anything right?

The one thing I will say about some of our new rampers is they are some snappy dressers. Where did they find these people? They look totally unprofessional to say the least. Not exactly the image that we should be sending to our passengers.


User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2945 times:

Quoting Sideflare75 (Reply 12):
The one thing I will say about some of our new rampers is they are some snappy dressers. Where did they find these people? They look totally unprofessional to say the least. Not exactly the image that we should be sending to our passengers.

I totally agree with you on this point. Skyex HQ is hiring anyone who applies that isn't a drunk or an ex con. I hate to see people running around without their shirts tucked in or just acting stupid in front of pax. This is a highly professional business but mangers don't seem to care, cause after all, we've just rampers. Oh and I should add, that if a person didn't receive their uniforms yet, that they don't need to tuck anything in, not even the Midwest T-shirts.


User currently offlineMidex717 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2913 times:

Yes, you are 50% correct about N807ME and the gear box change. But N807ME did get hit by a SKYWAY catering truck at the end of the wingtip. I saw the wingtip and it was hit very good. Good job to the Skyway employee who damaged N807ME you deserve a promotion and a pay raise. N807ME left the hangar this afternoon around 4pm or so.

Next it wasn't a B-717 that got smashed by a towbar and broke the nose gear light. It was N810ME(MD-80) and they robbed the parts from a plane that's in the hangar with no engines on it. Excellent job Skyway rampers. What's next: let's see hit the tail section, hit the wing or better yet just ram another catering truck into the fuselage. I now and you now that its just a matter of time.

Skyway used to have people that didn't wear ear protection. To me I still see them once in awhile not wearing ear protection. They plug there ears with there finger. Yeah that's going to work. It's in the Midwest ramp training that you need a marshaller to back-up the lav, water or any kind of truck or vehicle for servicing. I guess safety first has gone out the window at Skyway.


User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3708 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2907 times:
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Quoting Sideflare75 (Reply 12):
The one thing I will say about some of our new rampers is they are some snappy dressers. Where did they find these people? They look totally unprofessional to say the least. Not exactly the image that we should be sending to our passengers.

They get their clothes from NASCAR.com and FUBU, because they're either from the trailer park or the hood.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineSideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2881 times:

Quoting Midex717 (Reply 14):
Yes, you are 50% correct about N807ME and the gear box change. But N807ME did get hit by a SKYWAY catering truck at the end of the wingtip. I saw the wingtip and it was hit very good. Good job to the Skyway employee who damaged N807ME you deserve a promotion and a pay raise. N807ME left the hangar this afternoon around 4pm or so.

I know it got hit I wasn't disputing that but the wingtip was fixed. What I was saying was the plane would have been back in service if not for the gearbox change. At least they hit a broken one. Yeah sure


User currently offlineValkyrieRamp From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2828 times:
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This probably deserves its own thread but since it was mentioned multiple times.

Rampers tend to migrate to the point of least resistance - not just because of managers and ramp supervisors but because of personal apathy. Having worked the ramp at two different airlines I have to admit that I've seen two different approaches to the care and feeding of ramp agents - and sadly the results (for the most part) are identical.

At one airline rampers were treated like dirt. The slightest infraction of the rules, the slightest disagreement with supervisor, the first mistake was usually grounds for termination. On one memorable day during a fog delay a supervisor walked around and any ramper caught dozing in their tug (while waiting three hours for an aircraft) was fired on the spot.
At the second airline rampers are treated very well. Flight attendants and provisioning agents never hesitate to ask if they want something cold on a hot day (soda not suds) or something warm on a cold day.

However, people get comfortable and still fail to show up for flights, still fail to do FOD walks, still fail to come to work on rainy/snowy/hot days. This isn't a company failing as much as a personal failing. Supervisors often end up doing more ramp work than they should because they don't have the authority to match their responsibility.

When it comes down to damage/injuries most of it happens because of apathy. I'm too lazy to get a wing walker or a ground guide, I'm not going to bother to make sure that I close that access port because I've got my cell phone glued to my ear. I don't want to put out my smoke before I go fuel the plane.

How to fix it - beats me.



any science sufficiently advanced is magic
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7773 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2773 times:

ValkyrieRamp,

Your dilemma is one that is faced in many industries. Its a culture, and a very sad state that a good portion of our workforce does not care about their job. These people try to do as little to get by. Not jump rampers, but landscapers, maintenance repair, janitors, etc. Mostly non-customer service jobs. People are just lazy and its very frustrating.

The best way is to hire people who actually want to be there and care about their job.


User currently offlineSkyexramper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2746 times:

Quoting ValkyrieRamp (Reply 17):
On one memorable day during a fog delay a supervisor walked around and any ramper caught dozing in their tug (while waiting three hours for an aircraft) was fired on the spot.

We would get written up for taking even a 2 sec nap, no joke. But somehow people can take a total of 45mins worth of smoke brakes plus their lunches in an 8hr period. But non-smokers can't even rest their eyes for 10mins during down time.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 18):
The best way is to hire people who actually want to be there and care about their job.

But since our airline has the lowest starting ramp pay in the country, to our knowledge (just got bumped up to $7.70, from $7.25), you can't find good people anymore. We had a lot of good people but they quiet cause where the company was going or another division because of the people they had to work with. And paying the rampers more and hire less people is out of the question. We've told management to stop hiring people, just give us 15 people per shit and we'll work our tails off if they'd pay us a good wage. Nope, they've got to hire a lot of incapable people for cheap so that they get fired with in 6 months.


User currently offlineN917me From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 730 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 15):
They get their clothes from NASCAR.com

Hey, I take offense to that remark. I am a huge NASCAR fan and I do not live in a trailer park.... I live in a $300,000 house. Not all NASCAR fans are redneck trailer trash. Actually, you may be surprised to see how many white collar professionals there are that are diehard NASCAR fans. Just because a ramper may have on a NASCAR shirt does not mean they are trailer trash, they are simply supporting their favorite driver... By judgin people on what they wear is unfair. Should I judge people who work for AirTran differently becsue Elton John is painted on some of their aircraft? NO! So think twice before putting someone down based on their clothing.


User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3708 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2697 times:
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Relax it was a joke. By the way, most NASCAR fans don't live in a $300,000 home, so you are an exception to the rule. As far as Elton goes, that was a marketing decision. Most of the rank and file hates seeing that face on our planes.

[Edited 2005-06-09 01:23:52]


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
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