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Man Sues Alitalia Over Lack Of Legroom  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33286 posts, RR: 71
Posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8700 times:

A Miami man has filed a lawsuit against Alitalia, claiming that the business-class product on their his Milan-Tel Aviv segment of his family's Miami-Milan-Tel Aviv trip last June was unnaccepetable and lacked proper legroom and pitch:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/11830658.htm


a.
58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8681 times:

I agree with this lawsuit completely. I mean, for my $100 bucks, I expect a whole plane just for myself. What is wrong with these airlines anyway.  sarcastic 

Anyways, yeah, I am not even going to touch this one. The world would be a lot better off without these morons.

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8660 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
A Miami man has filed a lawsuit against Alitalia, claiming that the business-class product on their his Milan-Tel Aviv segment of his family's Miami-Milan-Tel Aviv trip last June was unnaccepetable and lacked proper legroom and pitch:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...8.htm

Eww! Registration required link. Does anyone have an alternate source to this article?

I'm sure that I'll still be crying for tort reform even after I read it.  Sad



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8656 times:

Whats the Normal Seat pitch like.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8644 times:

How can you sue for that ? "Not liking the product" is not grounds for a lawsuit, is it ? Or is he suing for emotional trauma, loss of quality-of-life and other Yankee bimbo-type whinging ? Pitiful.

MXP-TLV is an intra-European (well, you know what I mean) route, it was AZ's standard European business class product ie. not much to write home about. Unless his travel agent promised him something different, he has only himself to blame.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8554 times:

Well, it depends here. If AZ promised a certain pitch on the MXP-TLV flight and did not give it, then he has a case. Otherwise, a judge will tell him to go f' himself


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8541 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
Well, it depends here. If AZ promised a certain pitch on the MXP-TLV flight and did not give it, then he has a case

Even if they say their business class product as X" of leg room, they still have the defense, that in the conditions of carriage, that they reserve the right to substitute or change this dependant on the aircraft operating the route.

7LBAC111



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8533 times:

Well, some TLV flights are run on charter style aircraft due to low yields and high risk. For example, before Sabena folded, they ran their BRU-TLV flight on a 767 with 30" pitch max, and the fleet was owned by a Sabena subsid., probably for liability and insurance purposes. I was NOT amused by how cramped that plane was, especially for the length of the flight.

I also find the European concept of business class insulting. Keeping a 32" pitch and just moving an armrest does not cut it for me, honestly. This might be his gripe. Since I don't want to register with the Miami Herald, I can't know for sure.  Wink

I assume he paid more than $100 for the tickets.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineZonky From New Zealand, joined Nov 2004, 432 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8521 times:

Leibowitz's squabble with Italy's national airline began in June after he paid $8,800 to upgrade to four business-class seats to fly his family from Miami to Milan and then Tel Aviv, Israel, for vacation. The airline required the upgrade on all four segments of the trip, he claimed.

User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8514 times:

You can use bugmenot for a password:
http://www.bugmenot.com/



What now?
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8494 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 6):
Even if they say their business class product as X" of leg room, they still have the defense, that in the conditions of carriage, that they reserve the right to substitute or change this dependant on the aircraft operating the route

It depends on the contract. Additionally, they have to provide a level of service comparable to what he purchased. If he was promised a Magnifica Class seat on a 767, then he should have gotten the equal



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineOlympicbis From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8445 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
For example, before Sabena folded, they ran their BRU-TLV flight on a 767 with 30" pitch max



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
I also find the European concept of business class insulting. Keeping a 32" pitch and just moving an armrest does not cut it for me, honestly

Even in Sabena's 767's sometimes borrowed from Sobelair, seat pitch in BUSINESS was way above 30". 30" was economy.

As far as the European business class concept is concerned, we first should remember that most intra - european flights are performed with single-aisle planes, as opposed to some domestic sectors in the US which regularly use 767s or A300s or even 777s on some three-hour sectors. Pitch is almost ALWAYS around the minimum 33" or 34" on these aircrafts in business class with the middle seat now systematically left empty. Certainly comfortable enough for flights up to 3 and a half hours.
The overall business class experience between the European carriers and US ones is simply not comparable, and I recently had again the opportunity to check that on DL. Whether it is about fast check in, lounges, quick boarding, inflight service etc - let's not forget FA general attitude - business class on LH, LX, KL, SN, OS, AF, BA, SK, and many others is WAY SUPERIOR to whatever business and even "first" class you will get in most US domestic flights nowadays.


User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1388 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8288 times:

About three weeks ago, I flew AZ on JFK-MXP-CAI. On the JFK-MXP leg, I was in economy in an aisle seat on a 772, and it was one of the most cramped and uncomfortable coach trips I've ever had, possibly matched by an LH 744 FRA-IAD a few years back. Does anyone know the pitch for coach in the AZ 772? It was pretty lousy. If I had a choice, I would not do AZ on a route like that again. The guy in front of me put back his seat during dinner, and I had to ask him to put it up - there was no room to eat.

The 321 on MXP-CAI was fine, though.


User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8261 times:

Poor thing!!!!
How he must have suffered! Especially in Business class.
This is the kind of pax that cries when he does not get a window seat!
Boo Hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


User currently offlineIMatAMS From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8182 times:

3 years ago on AC one of the peanuts in the bag was broken...
Can anyone recommend a good lawyer, I won't accept less than $1 million in damages, as I am reverely traumatised by this experience...


User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8138 times:

On my flight from JFK to LAS last Friday night, there was distortion on my LiveTV screen and my view of Tricia Helfer was ruined. I'm suing JetBlue for deprivation and emotional trauma.

(Tricia Helfer plays "Number Six" on the new version of Battlestar Galactica. It's the best SF show in years, and would be even if the droolalicious Ms. Helfer wasn't on it.)

Seriously, this is a farce. If someone paid top dollar and got shoved into a coach seat without compensation, then a lawsuit would be appropriate. But really, this is just stupid.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8108 times:

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 15):
If someone paid top dollar and got shoved into a coach seat without compensation, then a lawsuit would be appropriate

'
No - a free upgrade on his next flight would be appropriate. This is normal service recovery. A lawsuit is just stupid.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8085 times:

Life sucks, mister, deal with it, and stop congesting our court systems with such garbage.

And it sounds like AZ is going to fight this asshole, and won't give him any customer service amenities. Good for them.


User currently offlineMD80Nut From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 979 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 8040 times:

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 13):
This is the kind of pax that cries when he does not get a window seat!

Hey, I cry if I don't get a window seat!  wink 

Cheers, Ralph



Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
User currently offlineOlympicbis From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 8014 times:

Quoting MD80Nut (Reply 18):
Hey, I cry if I don't get a window seat!

I am pretty sad too if I have do not get a window. Nothing can beat that IFE, whatever claas you are flying.


User currently offlineMD80Nut From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 979 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 7985 times:

Quoting Olympicbis (Reply 19):
Nothing can beat that IFE, whatever claas you are flying.

I agree 100%. Watching airplanes at the airports, the still breathtaking sight of the world from 30,000 plus ft in the air, even at night I love it. Best IFE there is!

Cheers, Ralph



Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
User currently offlineRAMPRAT980 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 600 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 7973 times:

This may seem dumb but can anyone explain how the seat pitch numbers work out.


With gun control there can be no democracy.. With gun control there can be no Freedom
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 7969 times:

He should be grateful that they weren't on strike that day  Wink
Makes him luckier than most.......



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineBA757 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2832 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 7943 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 23):
He should be grateful that they weren't on strike that day
Makes him luckier than most.......

All too true...


User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2017 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7813 times:
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OK, granted, the guy is a jerk and whining baby, but - this does underline the problem of differences in expectations regarding Business Class.

Premium service in Europe stresses ticket flexibility rather than creature comforts. Premium service in the USA stresses comfort over flexibility. It is the difference in approaches that leads to a situation like this. Most Americans who don't travel frequently would have no idea that the inter-European business class is essentially the same seat as Economy.



It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
25 YYZYYT : Apparently it can be... I recall an old case involving an English tourist who sued (and won) because his trip to Switzerland was not as promised (the
26 Baw716 : MXP-TLV flights run will either run with the MD80 or with the A320. The MD80 in Business Class have the 4 across Sorrento Seat in Business Class with
27 FlyAUA : Some morons in this world have nothing better to do. Even if he wins - which I doubt he will - the airline has no money to compensate him!
28 Baw716 : FlyAUA, It won't even get past the reading of the complaint. It'll get tossed that fast. baw716
29 Jetdeltamsy : North American passengers have found this out the hard way for decades. Business class in europe is not the same as the Domestic First Class in the US
30 Baw716 : JetDeltaMSY, AMEN. A professional travel agent assisting this man could have provided him the right assistance to at least inform him of the situation
31 LX23 : I agree with ALMOST everything you said except that last little bit. Off the top of my head: LH offers 1x744 and 1xA333 service between FRA and TLV,
32 Post contains images ExFATboy : I should have been clearer on that - a lawsuit would be appropriate ONLY a passenger was involuntarialy downgraded from first/business to coach AND e
33 IDAWA : I tried an Alitalia MD-80 Business Class seat on a domestic flight in 2002 and I was very happy with the legroom I had. Of course it was less than the
34 BWI757 : Nah, I guess business is slow for this guy so he grabs headlines by filing a frivolous lawsuit. Not only will he ge exposure and possibly new business
35 Palladium : A standard economy class seat pitch is between 32" - 34" An Executive Economy Class / Economy Deluxe Class seat pitch is around 38" (SQ and EVA Air ha
36 N1120A : Very few sectors in the US regularly use A300s, because only 1 airline flies them. Most US domestic sectors are narrowbody As are most intra-North Am
37 Baw716 : LX23, Thanks, I contradicted myself with that statement, sorry. If you read earlier, I stated that the AZ product was more or less the same as any oth
38 Desiguy2447 : Does this guy also plan to sue Alitalia for not having PTV's in every seat in Business class on there 767's. This is just too funny, and really dumb o
39 Airbus3801 : Seat pitch refers to the distance from one point on your seat, and the exact same point on the seat in front of you. So lets say that I chose the end
40 Post contains images NightFlier : Good luck with this one pal. Here's a good story for you. My aunt suffers from breathing problems, on a flight from FCO->JFK she became ill on the fli
41 Post contains images ATAIndy : OH MY GOSH!!!!! This makes me sooooooo mad, people sue over the stupidest freaking reasons!!!! AAAAAHHHHHHHHH
42 ContnlEliteCMH : Yeah, or Alitalia could actually put the seat information on their website, then anybody could perform an adequate investigation without need a "prof
43 Post contains links and images Wingnut135 : Kick a$$, three threads about stupid law suits in a week! Passengers Sue Over Really Rough Landing (by Espion007 Jun 4 2005 in Civil Aviation) Arkansa
44 767Lover : I'm bracing for a lot of crap to be thrown my way, but in reading the article I think his complaint is more about being FORCED to pay for upgrades on
45 Jafa39 : No news there then.......
46 PA110 : If Alitalia were smart, they would have recalculated his fare, charging Business Class from MIA to MXP and Economy Class from MXP to TLV. Not doing th
47 Sllevin : Let's see. The guy paid an additional $500/sector to upgrade, and was told that he had to upgrade all four sectors, or none at all. His point was that
48 Ikramerica : as was I. but I flew over to BRU on a 343 (or was it 2?) and the pitch was 32" IIRC. Didn't crack out the tape measure, but being 6'2, the comfort of
49 Avek00 : The guy probably won't win, and even if he does, good luck trying to collect from a near-bankrupt airline...
50 Abba : I just wonder where the guy is going to have his case heard. Will he go to an Italian court? An Israeli? Or (God forbid) an American court? (I can't g
51 Post contains images Iwok : Well, you never know... Such a case was bound to come up sooner or later, give how cramped many modern airliner make their planes. Believe it or not,
52 Schipholjfk : If he paid for a certain product and he did not get that, why does not he reserve the right to sue? It is still to be determined if the guy received
53 Jafa39 : It seems that he did but as has been made clear here European Business may not be what Americans expect. The fact that he originally wanted to avoid
54 Baw716 : Sllevin, "Let's see. The guy paid an additional $500/sector to upgrade, and was told that he had to upgrade all four sectors, or none at all. His poin
55 RAMPRAT980 : Thanks very much
56 Trex8 : unfortunately the legal system in the US is such that any fool who can read and write could walk into a county courthouse, cough up his filing fee (pr
57 EZEIZA : He paid for AZ business class and he got AZ business class. If he is not satisfied because he expected more from the product he purchased, well, that
58 Baw716 : RAMPRAT980 A clarification on the definition of seat pitch: Seat pitch is the distance between the back of your seat and the back of the seat in front
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