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India And Canada Agree On More Flights  
User currently offlineAirish From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 259 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4934 times:

India and Canada have agreed to increase the number of flights between the two countries.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...06/08/stories/2005060800930700.htm

http://www.dgca.nic.in/bilateral/canada0605.pdf


Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3768 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4935 times:

Who will introduce new flights, AI,AC,9W,IA...?

My guesses is that 9W will jump in, can 9W make a YUL,YVR,YYZ flight through LHR?

Rob!


User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4884 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
My guesses is that 9W will jump in, can 9W make a YUL,YVR,YYZ flight through LHR

I think you are probably right, but only IF they get the aircrafts, my sources at 9W tell me that YVR[i hope this is the code for Vancouver] is on top priority, most probably via CDG.

However i do feel that N.India-MAN/LHR-YYZ would be great options too.


User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1434 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4851 times:

This is quite promising! 
According to the article, my understanding is that esssentially they can operate double dailies into the respective cities. Is this limited to AC and AI or can include 9W?
I'd love to see AI AND 9W go daily into both YYZ and YVR.

Cheers,
Kaz

[Edited 2005-06-07 23:19:11]


t.dot photography
User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

AC will go into Mumbai, and launch YVR-DEL. I would expect YYZ-Bangalore flights by 2007. AC needs more aircraft for Bangalore and Mumbai, but can do Vancouver-Delhi with existing 343s.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4759 times:

Aerotransport database reports this week that Jet Airways will be adding 2 345's shortly, currently flown by Emirates. I presume the EK 345's are surplus due to the 773ER arrivals.

The 345 will certainly increase Jet's North American options.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4733 times:

Your kidding right??? YYZ-BANGALORE!!! HAHA Come on?? In fact, the flight was unprofitable according to many sources...its low yielding VFR traffic at best........maybe you want double daily DEL too???


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineShawnnyc From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4719 times:

Did you all notice that the agreement does not allow aircraft bigger than the B747. Is this forshadowing of India not allowing the A380?

Also reading the agreement, it seems to me that India cannot fly to Canada via East Asia and pick up pax. If this is true, I wonder why the flights couldn't come from East or West?

[Edited 2005-06-08 00:53:15]

User currently offlineDYK From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4725 times:

It would fantastic to see either AI or 9W into YVR. However I doubt very much AI will be interested in YVR, seems lack of aircraft and expansion is focused on SFO, IAH and other U.S. cities


AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
User currently offlineCbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1555 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4674 times:

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 7):

I did not know that any airports with in India could handle the A380 nor where they plans to accommodate the aircraft, could be wrong though.

I remember reading WestJet wants to fly to Europe with there 737NGs. Hmmm...Maybe they could continue onwards to BOM????  Wink



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4669 times:

Quoting Slawko (Reply 6):
Your kidding right??? YYZ-BANGALORE!!! HAHA Come on?? In fact, the flight was unprofitable according to many sources...its low yielding VFR traffic at best........maybe you want double daily DEL too???

Chuckle. There is an incredible amount of unadultered hot air on all India threads right now regarding new services from India fueled by several factors: new bilaterals, Jet Airways 343 addition, Air-India Boeing order. It remains largely nothing but hot air. The fact remains that India remains largely a VFR market with piss-poor yields and hence marginal prospects.

The sheer giddiness surrounding the recent India-Iceland bilateral took the cake.

How about daily Saskatoon-Amritsar, or Thunder Bay-Madras while we're at it? Will Moncton get Air-India nonstop service in 2006 or 2007? Will it stop in Saint John NB on the way or terminate in YSJ? The opportunities are endless.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineShawnnyc From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4667 times:

Quoting Cbphoto (Reply 9):
I did not know that any airports with in India could handle the A380 nor where they plans to accommodate the aircraft, could be wrong though

You are right for now. But I would have thought that the Indian government would be signing new bilaterals mentioning the A380 if they intended to upgrade. Otherwise India would have to sign a ton more bilaterals to accommodate the aircraft.


User currently offlineCbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1555 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4644 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 10):

How about daily Saskatoon-Amritsar, or Thunder Bay-Madras while we're at it?


LOL...that is great, count me in for that inaugural flight!!!  laughing   Silly



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4644 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 10):
Thunder Bay-Madras

Paging Texdravid....


User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4615 times:

Annex 1, section 2 note 1

Only one point in Canada may be served on the same flight, except Montreal, which may be served in combination with any other point

...and add to that:

Annex 1, section 2 note 4

5th freedom right for pax (...) shall be available only between points in CAnada and one intermediate point in Asia (West of Asia), and three intermediate points in Europe to be named by India (including the UK) and three beyond points in the USA

Quite interesting I'd say.



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4609 times:

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 13):
Paging Texdravid....

LOL!

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 10):
Saskatoon-Amritsar,

Calling all you other A.netters.



Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4473 times:

The sheer giddiness surrounding the recent India-Iceland bilateral took the cake.

Much of that thread involved deriding the India-Iceland bilateral and the context under which it occurred. Maybe you just didn't get it.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4431 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 16):
The sheer giddiness surrounding the recent India-Iceland bilateral took the cake.

Much of that thread involved deriding the India-Iceland bilateral and the context under which it occurred. Maybe you just didn't get it.

The giddiness I was referring to was that of the 200+ Indians who felt the need to accompany the Indian PM for the crucial earth-shattering bilateral talks in KEF. Maybe you don't "get it".  Yeah sure



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4424 times:

The giddiness I was referring to was that of the 200+ Indians who felt the need to accompany the Indian PM for the crucial earth-shattering bilateral talks in KEF. Maybe you don't "get it".

No, its quite clear that you don't.
Or else you're just borrowing my line.
If you bothered to read that thread, you'd have noticed that I derided the entire far fetched stupidity of the entire operation.
You're just a Johnny-come-lately as usual.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4406 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 18):
If you bothered to read that thread, you'd have noticed that I derided the entire far fetched stupidity of the entire operation.

200+ Indians need to travel to Iceland to complete a bilateral. Complete utter nonsense. So we're in agreement. I bet the Icelanders were laughing when that loaded Air-India 744 left for home.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 18):
You're just a Johnny-come-lately as usual.

Sigh. Another non-sensical insult from the safety of a keyboard. Sad.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4403 times:

Sigh. Another non-sensical insult from the safety of a keyboard. Sad.

Just taking a page out of your book.
You should be proud that someone's reading it.


User currently offlineCslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4369 times:

That "trip to Iceland" was extremely important as Indian-owned carriers will be able to make stops in Iceland in route from India to Canada and the US, offering faster travel times than stoping in "traditional" airports like LHR, AMS, CDG, and FRA.

To bad Canada doesn't have a formal bilateral agreement with Iceland......



--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4367 times:

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 21):
That "trip to Iceland" was extremely important as Indian-owned carriers will be able to make stops in Iceland in route from India to Canada and the US, offering faster travel times than stoping in "traditional" airports like LHR, AMS, CDG, and FRA.

Yes, but a tech-stop is less lucrative than a 5th freedom stop in LHR or BHX or FRA or CDG, besides nonstops..


User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4346 times:

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 7):
Did you all notice that the agreement does not allow aircraft bigger than the B747. Is this forshadowing of India not allowing the A380?

I know a couple of airlines atleast who would have been thrilled for just getting a 747 capacity (even if the airlines dont have the aircraft themselves) in their bilaterals with India.

Take the recent one with Oman - Hyderabad is capped at 375 seats per week for WY!

Or even worse -Qatar airways - stuck at 500 seats per week fo HYD (even after the revised bilateral!). No wonder they quadurupled the flights to HYD
during winter open skies!!!!


User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4316 times:

The routes that make sense are,

AC,
YYZ-DEL---7x
YVR-DEL---7x
YYZ-BOM--7x
YYZ-EU/UK-HYD--4x
YYZ-EU/UK-MAA--4x
YYZ-EU/UK-BLR---3x
YVR-ATQ---3x

AI,9W and S2[perhaps]
DEL-LHR-YYZ-----7x
BOM-CDG-YVR----7x
ATQ-BHX-YYZ----7x
GOA-MAN-YUL----5x
BOM-MUC-YYZ----7x
ATQ-BHX-YVR----3x,

Any additions,corrections,suggestions???


25 Zvezda : India-Canada-USA flights?
26 LAXDESI : Makes sense. Toronto as a scissor hub, offering non-stops to all Indian cities.
27 Post contains images Aseem : will Canadian bilateral allow that..if so then why not YYZ-DFW
28 Zvezda : Reportedly so. DFW might make sense, as it is probably too far for a nonstop.
29 Jaysit : That "trip to Iceland" was extremely important as Indian-owned carriers will be able to make stops in Iceland in route from India to Canada and the US
30 Hrhf1 : Once again the Liberals are sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong. Why would YYZ and YVR not be logical points that would allow codesharing
31 Jaysit : Given the massive expansion of British and Indian carriers on routes between India-UK-North America, I really don't see a need for additional flights
32 Jean Leloup : What's your point? Obviously YYZ an YVR would be more logical points for flights, and those are the places more likely to get them, not YUL. The appe
33 Hrhf1 : If Westjet is looking for international partners and establishing Codeshare flights, do you think they'd rather do it through YYZ, their eastern hub,
34 Jean Leloup : You STILL don't understand what you're saying. This statement will have absolutely no negative effect on flights to YYZ or YVR. Obviously, the bulk of
35 Astral : More points for you all to think. Other than Air Canada, attending the Bilateral Talks, there was executives from Harmony Airways and AirTransat. So -
36 Hrhf1 : The point is, Jean, that should a codeshare flight originate in any city outside of those listed in the agreement, it HAS to go through YUL. I'll adm
37 Shawnnyc : Jaysit, I think you're underestimating the Indian population in YYZ and YVR. YYZ has a much bigger Indian populations than LA and Chicago (and YVR ha
38 Jaysit : Jaysit, I think you're underestimating the Indian population in YYZ and YVR. I'm not. But you can't base a massive expansion program on VFR traffic al
39 DYK : "Jaysit, I think you're underestimating the Indian population in YYZ and YVR." Vancouver has a very large Indian population and growing by large numbe
40 Jean Leloup : Hrhf1, I don't have any disagreement whatsoever with your concern for federal favouritism towards YUL. I too believe this stuff should be decided by t
41 Jean Leloup : Well, I've read through the whole thing now. Indeed, there is NO requirement stating that all flights to cities other than those designated must pass
42 Shawnnyc : You are right the provision is there only because of CCU. India often allows this exemption for CCU to encourage flights there (right now BA is the o
43 Jean Leloup : Ok, so, correspondingly, Canada does want to encourage flights to Montreal, and have provision to do so because of the CCU provision. Is this, in itse
44 Hrhf1 : Jean, unfortunately you've insisted on the approach in earlier posts today that I think this is to the detriment of YYZ or YVR, which is not my point
45 Jean Leloup : So to clarify, you think it would have been better for Canada not to have sought for ANY city to have the privelege of being a second Canadian stop on
46 Post contains images HanginOut : I wonder how Air France would react to this, considering they've been trying to get the rights to fly to YVR for ages. This route would be great for
47 YUL332LX : AF (or should I say, France) probably has a veto to deny this "right" to the Indian carriers (or even Canadian carriers for that matter).[Edited 2005
48 Shawnnyc : France does not (although I think India is limited to just one point in Canada). France got expanded access to India in return. Indian carriers need
49 Hrhf1 : Jean, perhaps I am reading this wrong, so enlighten me if I am. The note reads that , so yes, if I were to take ACxxx to YYZ or YVR, then yes I could
50 Post contains images Jean Leloup : Ahh, finally I see where you are coming from with the codeshare remark. So, for instance, if AI wanted to codeshare on a YYC-YVR AC flight, and then h
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