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Overbooking Or Not Overbooking  
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 54
Posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

Last night I was booking a flight on Iceland Express who operates from Keflavik to Copenhagen, London Stansted and Frankfurt Hahn. When I thought that I had finished keying in my e-ticket, then they insisted correctly that I hadn't ticked that I had studied terms and conditions.

I looked into the terms and conditions menu, OMG, a twenty subjects menu, refunds, pregnancy and flying, animals carried, etc. etc.

Then my eyes caught notice of the menu headline: DENIED BOARDING DUE TO OVERBOOKING

OMG! That's always the risk when flying. You may get bumped, I would be in a hell of a situation if they bump me on this flight. This is a low cost carrier, they probably has one hell of an overbooking procedure. So I read on:

Iceland Express does not operate an overbooking system. Therefore no passenger who has a confirmed seat on an Iceland Express flight can or will be denied boarding due to overbooking. Period.

Are there other carriers out there who dare to write that? It took me less than ten nanoseconds to finish off my e-booking!!!

It's my second roundtrip with Iceland Express. Recommendable except (of course) for the poor LCC style seat pitch. I boarded my first journey directly from work having had nothing to eat for 8-9 hours. I especially remember that I could have all the very delicious sandwishes needed at a fair price - in my situation much better than the usual free one-size-fits-all plastic meal served on mainstream carriers.


Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4382 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2857 times:

I prefer carriers to overbook as it maximizes discount inventory.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineMeerkat From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2005, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2846 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 1):
I prefer carriers to overbook as it maximizes discount inventory.

Maximises my chance of getting an op-up too!


User currently offlineFlyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2859 times:

If I understood your post correctly, Iceland express sell only as many seats as there are in the aircraft. Is this good for the passengers? Yes it is. Is it good for the airline? No (unless they never have no-shows).

It is normal for a certain proportion of passengers to buy seats on a flight and still not show up. How large this proporion of passengers is depends on many things such as destination, price of seat, scheduled/charter, etc...

When airlines get their yield management right, then they rarely have to deny passengers their right to board aircraft and everyone is happy. Unfortunately some airlines don't get this right and often passengers are denied boarding. If Iceland Express does not have an overbooking policy that means they will most probably have lower load-factors than the other LCCs. LCCs also overbook by the way. Even EasyJet does this.

To be frank, I wouldn't mind being told that I could get a couple of hundred EUR (especially with the new EU laws) if I fly with a later flight that day or travel with an intermediate stop somehwere. That's more shopping money 

But then again, everybody has their own opinion and some people might be annoyed by this. At Austrian we used to have a policy where we looked for "volunteers" when it was anticipated that the yield managers made a mistake and a flight would be overbooked. Obviously you would approach a certain group of travellers which were assumed to be more willing to do so. If they said no, then that's the end of the story. But if they say yes, they get a standby ticket and if the flight was indeed overbooked they get a fat check. If the flight works out fine in the end, they would still fly of course. It's just a safety measure to prevent other passengers who are not willing to do this from getting pissed off. And I was told that many airlines out there do this.

Regards  

[Edited 2005-06-08 01:10:25]


Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlineFlyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2833 times:

Quoting Meerkat (Reply 2):
Maximises my chance of getting an op-up too!

Except that wouldn't happen with a LCC which has a one-class-configuration  Wink



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2831 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

JetBlue does not over book its flights


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 3):
To be frank, I wouldn't mind being told that I could get a couple of hundred EUR (especially with the new EU laws) if I fly with a later flight that day or travel with an intermediate stop somehwere.

If we are flying on an hourly shuttle, then I understand that this can work with volunteers.

But most flights are not hourly shuttle flights. That includes all Iceland Express flights - a noon flight and an evening flight.

I would like to see how many volunteers would raise their hands to get compensated for a bump on such an evening flight.

BTW, I think that it is good yield management to tell customers: Book on our flights and you will never ever get bumped by overbooking. I think that it is a very good reason to book on exactly that airline.

I always thought that LCCs were the most agressive in overbooking, and in fact I had never heard of an airline not practicing overbooking before. So I was so surpriced reading that Iceland Express does not do it.

In my mind I was reluctant to book at Iceland Express because I assumed agressive overbooking, and the reason why I went so far on the Iceland Express booking was only that their schedule this time happened to fit my schedule better than Icelandair's schedule - I'm going to meet a foreign friend who arrives at KEF on another flight at almost the same time. Otherwise I would gladly have chosen Icelandair, also because the fare difference was insignificant.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2710 times:

Quoting Prebennorholm (Thread starter):
Iceland Express does not operate an overbooking system. Therefore no passenger who has a confirmed seat on an Iceland Express flight can or will be denied boarding due to overbooking. Period.

Are there other carriers out there who dare to write that? It took me less than ten nanoseconds to finish off my e-booking!!!

If all tickets were sold by an airline on a non-refundable "use-it-or-lose-it" basis, valid only for the flights ticketed (no voluntary changes allowed), there would be no basis on which airlines could defend their practice of overbooking. In such a case, no-shows would significantly benefit an airline; less weight carried equals lower fuel costs and the revenue generated by the empty seat(s) would be the airline's to keep in full.

By the way... is the ticket you purchased for travel on Icelandic Express changeable -- or is it "use-it-exactly-as-is-or-lose-it?"


User currently offlineFlyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2701 times:

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 6):
BTW, I think that it is good yield management to tell customers: Book on our flights and you will never ever get bumped by overbooking.

Sorry but I must disagree with you on this point while I agree with the rest of your remarks.

Yield management is not about attracting customers, so advertising what Iceland Express will offer their customers CANNOT be good yield management. It can be good marketing though, or it could be customer-friendly.

Yield management is about how you price the different types of seats on your aircraft and how many of them you plan to sell for what price, and what load factors you expect, etc...



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlineWindowSeat From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1312 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2686 times:

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 8):
Yield management is about how you price the different types of seats on your aircraft and how many of them you plan to sell for what price, and what load factors you expect, etc...

Putting it in one sentence yes. There's a whole LOT more to it, but thats the gist. After all, a butt in every seat at the best price is the goal, isn't it? Big grin



I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2677 times:

I have to admit, I will not book flights with airlines that do not overbook, as, as anybody who knows me reasonably well knows, I am an absolute sucker for Voluntarily Denied Boarding vouchers.


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

The alternative to overbooking is Jet Blue's non-refundable tickets. Use them or lose them.

Overbooking is not related to yields, it is related to load factor. Overbooking help increase load factor. It at times results in denied boardings.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2632 times:

Back in the late 80's, I lived in the Bay Area and routinely flew AS OAK-LGB, even if our business was in downtown LA or the Valley. Reason? Almost every afternoon return to OAK, one could almost always count on hearing our favorite announcement - anyone willing to give up their seat on this flight in exchange for a free travel voucher?

I've lost count of how many times I collected those wonderful pieces of paper....


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17039 posts, RR: 66
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2624 times:

How often have you been bumped. Honestly, overbooking rarely is a problem...


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2616 times:

It wasn't a problem for us at all - we used to book the late afternoon departures on purpose because we knew AS routinely overbooked, and we wanted the opportunity to volunteer.

I agree that it doesn't seem to be a problem these days. The only time I've heard that magic announcement is on the rare occasion the overbooking is prompted by an equipment shortage.


User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2502 times:

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 7):
By the way... is the ticket you purchased for travel on Icelandic Express changeable -- or is it "use-it-exactly-as-is-or-lose-it?"

It's changeable up to three hours before departure at a $40 fee.

In fact the e-ticket includes an URL where you may change the booking, PIN code protected, and the fee will be charged on your credit card.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineMeerkat From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2005, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2475 times:

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 4):
Quoting Meerkat (Reply 2):
Maximises my chance of getting an op-up too!

Except that wouldn't happen with a LCC which has a one-class-configuration Wink

Ah, but I wouldn't be seen dead on an LCC!  Wink

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 13):
How often have you been bumped. Honestly, overbooking rarely is a problem...

Twice recently - once from J to F, and a double op-up from Y-F.


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