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Sudan Airways - Whats Going On?  
User currently offlineLazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 548 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3475 times:

I know Sudan isn't in the best shape as a country, but does anyone know whats going on with their airline? A few photos on the d/b of A300's say "a new bird for Sudan", but when will they get it and where will it operate?

Does anyone know?


I came. I saw. I conquered
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3459 times:

The airline recently leased an A310 from Saga Airlines (TC-SGB) and an A300 from Flyair (TC-FLL).

The A300

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Photo © Giovanni Verbeeck


became...

MyAviation.net photo:
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Photo © Jean Christophe MONTAUT



Here is the A310 with the former operator

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Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt




Horus



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineJambo From Tanzania, joined Dec 2004, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3421 times:

I think Sudan Airways recently started once weekly service to EBB (Kampala, Uganda) and they are about to start flights to NBO (Nairobi, Kenya)

User currently offlineOmoo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3402 times:

in my opinion they should not even be allowed to buy/lease new equipment let alone Fly to EBB or NBO

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3329 times:

Quoting Omoo (Reply 3):
in my opinion they should not even be allowed to buy/lease new equipment let alone Fly to EBB or NBO

Why not.Any reason.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineIL76TD From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3291 times:

what aircraft are they flying to Nairobi???

User currently offlineOmoo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3195 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 4):
Why not.Any reason.
regds
MEL

The genocide in Darfur


User currently offlineLazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3124 times:

Ok, thanks for your help everyone. Do they have any plans to start european services?


I came. I saw. I conquered
User currently offlineElagabal From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3015 times:

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 7):
Do they have any plans to start european services?

I thought Sudan operated a crazy "double cruel circle" combined pair of routes, serving Paris and London from Khartoum and Cairo: KRT->CAI--->CDG->LHR--->KRT. This was one of their standard routes, another being KRT-CAI-IST v.v., although the London / Paris route is their most important longish-haul market. Are they still doing this?

(I'm guessing that they are allowed to operate so many flights from CAI on account of a 5th-freedom deal with Egypt. MS used to operate CAI->KRT->NBO v.v. For that matter, is this still being done, or have MS since changed to simple returns for each?)

[Edited 2005-06-09 22:52:59]

User currently offlineJoshdean From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3000 times:

Quoting Omoo (Reply 6):
The genocide in Darfur

What are you talking about? Are you saying the country should be further isolated by taking away some of the transport infrastructure? I don't see your reasoning for this. Please explain.


User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3023 times:

Quoting Elagabal (Reply 8):
I thought Sudan operated a crazy "double cruel circle" combined pair of routes, serving Paris and London from Khartoum and Cairo: KRT->CAI--->CDG->LHR--->KRT. This was one of their standard routes, another being KRT-CAI-IST v.v., although the London / Paris route is their most important longish-haul market. Are they still doing this?

Yes they relaunched a weekly A300 flight routing KRT-CAI-LHR-CDG-KRT on March 15 2005, however quite a few services have been cancelled since then.

Quoting Elagabal (Reply 8):
(I'm guessing that they are allowed to operate so many flights from CAI on account of a 5th-freedom deal with Egypt.

SD have 5x weekly A310/A300 KRT-CAI flights and a 1x weekly B737 KRT-PZU-CAI flight. They do have 5th freedom rights on the CAI-LHR sector.

Quoting Elagabal (Reply 8):
MS used to operate CAI->KRT->NBO v.v. For that matter, is this still being done, or have MS since changed to simple returns for each?

Yes MS have dedicated flights to each destination:

CAI-NBO-CAI (MS849/850) 3x weekly A320 flights
CAI-KRT-CAI (MS853/854) Daily A330-200 flights

In addition ET and KQ both compete on the KRT-CAI route with 4x weekly and 5x weekly flights respectively. (Note: KQ recently launched NBO-CAI-IST flights to complement their NBO-KRT-CAI service)


Horus



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineOmoo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2922 times:

Quoting Joshdean (Reply 9):
What are you talking about? Are you saying the country should be further isolated by taking away some of the transport infrastructure? I don't see your reasoning for this. Please explain.

Exactly what i ment.


User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2595 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

Are Sudan Airways still operating their 707 combi??

User currently offlineWorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2889 times:

Quoting Omoo (Reply 11):
Exactly what i ment.

Is Sudan Airways government owned? If so, then I could see your reasoning behind this. If the government has done nothing about the genocide in Darfur, then perhaps isolating then airline could be justified, along with other possible economic sanctions. However, if they are privately owned, then they should not be punished by the actions of the government.

Quoting UK_Dispatcher (Reply 12):
e Sudan Airways still operating their 707 combi??

I thought that I read in a recent Airliner World article that they were only operating 1 or 2 A300's currently. I do not have a copy of the article with me, but I will check it out tonight.

WorldXplorer


User currently offlineWorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2798 times:

Sudan airways resumes Khartoum - Nairobi service after a nine year interruption!

http://www.eastandard.net/hm_news/news.php?articleid=22899

WorldXplorer


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19215 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2769 times:

Quoting Horus (Reply 10):
SD have 5x weekly A310/A300 KRT-CAI flights



Quoting Horus (Reply 10):
CAI-KRT-CAI (MS853/854) Daily A330-200 flights

When I passed the SD office here in CAI, it was very busy.

I think SD needs to rationalise and reorganise its operation. Then it should start operating routes. I am curious about the demand between KRT and both London and Paris. If SD operated, say, the 320, do you think that there would be sufficient demand, assuming fifth-freedom rights, from KRT to LHR via CAI four-times-weekly and KRK to CDG via CAI thrice-weekly? It could then enter the CAI-France and CAI-London market.

[Edited 2005-06-16 18:21:20]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2754 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 15):
When I passed the SD office here in CAI, it was very busy.

It's very difficult to tell with SD, their timetable literally changes every week. Last year a few of their jets were seized by creditors and leasing companies which saw a huge drop in activity but since February they've gradually acquired more jets (see my first post). In March they increased flights to CAI from 3 to 6x weekly services but faced greater compeition from MS who upgraded their daily flight from A320 to A332 (85% increase in seats).

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 15):
I think SD needs to rationalise and reorganise its operation. Then it should start operating routes. I am curious about the demand between KRT and both London and Paris. If SD operated, say, the 320, do you think that there would be sufficient demand, assuming fifth-freedom rights, from KRT to LHR via CAI four-times-weekly and KRK to CDG via CAI thrice-weekly? It could then enter the CAI-France and CAI-London market.

Absolutely, SD should be rationalised and privatised. Unlike most government-owned airlines in the region, the Sudanese government simply doesn't have the funds or management skills to run the airline. Since 1997 there have been reports a bunch of Gulf businessmen were to by an 80% stake in the airline but nothing ever materialised. With the current situation in Sudan its difficult to see how things will change.

The market between Sudan and Western Europe/Scandinavia is fairly large due to the large Sudanese community residing there but I'm not sure if that is enough to warrant increased services. Having said that, 4x weekly and 3x weekly A320 to LHR and CDG respectively could work but I don't think the Egyptian authority will grant that much access out of CAI as that would pose a threat to MS (especially LHR, which is their largest European market)...


Horus

[Edited 2005-06-16 18:49:47]


EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19215 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2736 times:

Quoting Horus (Reply 16):
Absolutely, SD should be rationalised and privatised.



Quoting Horus (Reply 16):
Unlike most government-owned airlines in the region, the Sudanese government simply doesn't have the funds or management skills to run the airline.

Yes, it should be privatised and knowlegable and experienced outsiders - with a good deal of cash - should take control of it. Do away with the crap and start a logical, sensible route network and operate efficiency, effectively and hopefully profitably. It should concentrate on routes where there is a clear demand - but only operating a couple or a few initially. It should operate good frequencies to help increase useability, flexibility and convenience. By supplying that demand on a couple or a few routes, it should become known as being a reliable and punctual airline, as well as a useable, flexible and convenient carrier, and so its reputation will increase... and so on. Then it can begin to develop its network. Needless to say, this is better done when Sudan is more stable.

Quoting Horus (Reply 16):
Having said that, 4x weekly and 3x weekly A320 to LHR and CDG respectively could work but I don't think the Egyptian authority will grant that much access out of CAI as that would pose a threat to MS (especially LHR, which is their largest European market)...

What a suprise! Always a problem, eh?   But to quote Delboy: he who dares, wins.  



[Edited 2005-06-16 19:03:16]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineZizou From Australia, joined Oct 2000, 1535 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2629 times:

Do they still fly to Sharjah?

User currently offlineDreamflight From Belgium, joined Jan 2005, 153 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 2539 times:

At this moment a A300-6 in full Sudan Airways c/s is waiting at Brussels for this operator.

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Photo © Jan Severijns


After several months this aircraft still hasn't move from this place.
Does anybody know if there is a future for this plane ?

Rgds,



I feel the need for airspeed
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 2494 times:

Quoting Omoo (Reply 6):
genocide in Darfur

for sure a lousy thing. But to punish a whole country and its people for atrocities committed by militias "close to the ruler" ?


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 2487 times:

Quoting WorldXplorer (Reply 13):
Sudan Airways government owned

YES, it IS government owned. So that his reasoning is logical and understandable, but wrong in the end nevertheless. To isolate and starve and ruin countries with inhumanely acting leaderships always is a problem. A point in question is the fact that economic problems inevitably hit exactly those hardest who in the past were victims of political hardship.


User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

If one day the situation in this country gets more calm , and Sudan ready to expand , they will buy Airbuses , since the money they owed to Airbus has been cancelled , in exchange , the European manufacturer will become their exclusive seller.

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