Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Can We Talk About Big Sky?  
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9668 posts, RR: 68
Posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3676 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

I am gathering some facts about Big Sky for an upcoming story. Any info you can provide would be very helpful.

Are they moving towards an all 1900D fleet?

When did they pull out of SEA? Out of OLI?

Are they still independent, or did Mesa buy them?

Thx.

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4898 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3651 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
Are they moving towards an all 1900D fleet?

Yes, the Metro's are leaving



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineSierraAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3623 times:

The Metro's are slowly being replaced the the B1900 on a 1:1 basis. The first city to get the 1900 was Sheridan continuing on to Denver, as part of the deal for EAS was that Big Sky offer the same product as Great Lakes, who they were replacing.

The Seattle service ended earlier this year (I want to say Feb or Mar) There wasn't any real connection to the rest of the airline; it existed mainly as an EAS for Moses Lake. Portland was selected as the new destination because of lower fees, but still offering the same connections that Seattle did.

I can't tell you for sure when the Olympia service ended. Something is telling me summer of 2004. Loads were just not what the should have been.

Also, Big Sky is fully owned by the Mesaba Group. The only assosiation that they have with Mesa is the leased B1900.

Brian


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9668 posts, RR: 68
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3467 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

when will the Metro's be retired?

User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3451 times:

Considering I work for them...

Mair Holdings is the actual owner. But then again, Mair may own Mesaba...or vice-versa. Seattle was out the beginning of March. I want to say the 10th of March was the last day of service into SEA, but I just don't remember. We still go to Moses Lake, but that may not be around too much longer. Just no pax loads out of there...even with EAS.

I believe we have 4 Metros still flying. Two Metro 23's (N1119 and 453LA) and two Metro 3's (159MC and N60NE). At hq in BIL, I've also seen atleast two, maybe three, more Metro 3's parked, being used for parts (160MC and 158MC for sure, possibly 27465). 27465 may still be flying some routes in eastern MT, I know I just haven't seen her since March. The rest of the fleet are Beech 1900D's. I don't know. I like both aircraft just fine, but somehow it seems I can turn a Metro faster then a Beech. Could be I've just had ALOT more time working Metros then them Beeches. The Metro's SHOULD be gone by the end of the year. Assuming we don't lose another Beech to a BIL QX De-Ice truck. Then we may need to hold on to one or two of our "loveable" Metro's for a bit longer...

fluffy


User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2615 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3398 times:

Is Kim Champney still at Big Sky or did he get removed during the buy out? I worked for him at Mohawk in SYR. He is still the only airline president that has bought me a beer. He treated all of the SYR staff to beers when we got our operating Cert back. Too bad the president he had just replace failed to pay our taxes and we were gone a couple of months later.

User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4030 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3370 times:

MAIR holdings was created with the purchase of Big Sky a few years ago. MAIR Holdings has under its umbrella, Mesaba Aviation and Big Sky. Mesaba Aviation continues to support the money sucking Big Sky. At least Foley and Weil are making a public attempt to earn their grossly inflated compensation by aquiring the 1900s and making changes. They have to make it appear like they actually do stuff on a daily basis. But until the Big Sky operation turns a profit, they'll always be a drain on the Mesaba profits for MAIR and continue to prove that the $2 million over investment was a waste of Mesaba money.


AZJ


User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3314 times:

Kim Champney has been out for a while now. And from what I've heard, it's a good thing he's gone. Frank Deluew (don't remember the exact spelling on the last name) is the new head man, and from what he's been saying, it sounds like they (at hq) made a good choice. Right now there's some task force who will supposedly bring about some changes for the good. His favorite catch-phrase: "Right now GQ will trip over a $100 bill to pick up a nickel". And boy, that's the first true thing I've heard in a long time. Craig Denney (his righthand man) is still with us as well.

fluffy


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3225 times:

Big Sky is one of those curious non-aligned airlines we don't hear much about, so how about a little overview of their routes?
I have always considered them mostly a Montana carrier, so the Portland and Moses Lake routes are interesting...

About Olympia, all the talk is usually about Sea-Tac and Bellingham to the north..What other airlines have tried service in that market? (Oly)

Why hasn't scheduled service worked there?
Is it the airline or the market?
I would guess the main source of pax to Olympia would be from Seattle, and that's within easy driving distance..so what about across the state to Spokane? Is that a route that has been tried? I'd think there would be demand between the capital and WA's second largest metro.
Anyway, fill us (me) in!



Delete this User
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3199 times:

Quoting SierraAir (Reply 2):
Also, Big Sky is fully owned by the Mesaba Group.



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 6):
MAIR Holdings has under its umbrella, Mesaba Aviation and Big Sky.

Actually Mesaba and Big Sky have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Mesaba is just Mesaba, nothing more or less, and they fly only Turboprops and ARJ's for NW. Big Sky on the other hand, is a wholly-owned subsidiary of MAIR, and MAIR is the Mesa Air Group. MAIR does not own Mesaba, however they do in addition to Big Sky own Freedom Airlines and Air Midwest.


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4030 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3164 times:

WHAT? Dude... you need to find a new dealer! DLKAPPA you're clueless.

MAIR is a holdings company that control BIG SKY and MESABA. The only thing they have to do with each other is the fact that they are controlled by the same holdings company.

The Mesa Air Group is a completely separate entity and has no relationship to MAIR.

Before you spew stuff that makes no sense, you better check your facts.

http://www.mesa-air.com/default.asp

http://www.mairholdings.com/index.as...8628B-2286-4ECC-A32E-59C469FFCC35}


AZJ


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3117 times:

Tell me this then... (I do believe you by the way) why do the Big Sky B1900D's that come into DEN all have N***YV tail numbers? Did they just buy them off YV?  confused 

User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2451 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3105 times:

DLKAPA....this should answer your question....

Mesa Air Group Signs Letter of Intent to Lease Ten Turboprop Aircraft to Big Sky Airlines

PHOENIX, Jan 26, 2005 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- Mesa Air Group, Inc. (Nasdaq: MESA) announced today that its subsidiary, Mesa Airlines, Inc., has signed a Letter of Intent to lease ten (10) Beechcraft 1900D aircraft currently operated by its subsidiary, Air Midwest, Inc., to Big Sky Transportation Co., a regional turboprop air carrier based in Billings, Montana, and a wholly-owned subsidiary of MAIR Holdings, Inc. Deliveries of the aircraft will commence in February 2005 and are expected to be completed by February 2006.

source: www.mesa-air-com



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3091 times:

Oh damn now we can really start confusing YV with XJ (as I just did) :p

Thanks for the clarification cactus.


User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3100 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 8):
so how about a little overview of their routes?

GQ's main base of operations, or their hub (I suppose you could say), is in BIL. We serve the cities of Portland (OR), Moses Lake, Spokane (Both WA), Boise (ID), Sheridan (WY), Denver (CO), Kalispell (and the rest MT), Missoula, Helena, Great Falls, Havre, Lewistown, Billings (obviously), Glasgow, Wolf Point, Miles City, Glendive, and Sydney.

I've got a list of flight numbers and their corresponding cities somewheres, just can't find it at the moment.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 8):
so what about across the state to Spokane? Is that a route that has been tried?

We did operate from GEG to SEA, going thru MWH, but the numbers actually weren't all that great, considering QX operates like half a dozen flights on the same route daily. We also have some sort of agreement with QX about price wars on the same route. Or something weird like that, just something my manager told me once.

Azjubilee is right, MAIR controls both Big Sky and Mesaba. As far as I know, the only connection Big Sky has with Mesa is the Beech 1900Ds we're buying from them.

fluffy


User currently offlineSierraAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3062 times:

The Seattle - Moses Lake and the Moses Lake - Spokane services existed only as Essential Air Services for Moses Lake. It was difficult, if not impossible to fly from Seattle to east of Spokane.

With the recent landing fee hike in Seattle (partially to pay for the 3rd runway) Big Sky moved the EAS services to Portland and Boise because, in theory, those cities provide the same connections that could have been made in Seattle and Spokane.

It really didn't have anything to do with passanger loads. If that was the case, the only cities served would be Great Falls, Missoula, Helena and Kalispell. In most cases, the average flight to a town in Eastern Montana only has about 6 people on it.

Brian


User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3030 times:

Big Sky just announced a new flight BOI-BZN. They currently operate
BOI-MSO which carries one of their highest passenger loads, as well as the highest (non EAS) yield factor of their system. If their is growth with Big Sky,
lI think you might seriously see them doing BOI-Elko, in the future. I do know they have strongly looked at BOI-SUN in the past. BOI seems to be a very good market for them.

[Edited 2005-06-14 13:44:52]

User currently offlineAAtakeMeAway From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

Am I crazy or did GQ used to fly out of DFW to places like Brownwood? If I remember correctly, they flew out of the lower level of terminal E.

User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

Quoting AAtakeMeAway (Reply 17):
Am I crazy or did GQ used to fly out of DFW to places like Brownwood? If I remember correctly, they flew out of the lower level of terminal E.

You are not crazy, GQ was the EAS carrier to several small Texas cities, a few in Oklahoma & Arkansas, including Brownwood Laredo etc. & yes, they did operate out of terminal E on the lower level


User currently offlineAAtakeMeAway From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2916 times:

Quoting SunValley (Reply 18):
You are not crazy, GQ was the EAS carrier to several small Texas cities, a few in Oklahoma & Arkansas, including Brownwood Laredo etc. & yes, they did operate out of terminal E on the lower level

What is EAS?  confused 


User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2881 times:

EAS= Essential Air Service. Backed by funds from the Federal Government. Think they pay like 50% of the cost to operate the flight...not sure about exact numbers...

Boise wasn't just added. We've flown into Boise now for a long time. The BOI-BZN route is a bad idea IMO. Reliable sources (aka pilots) say there was no real research, just the fact that 2 a/c sit in BOI for 3-4 hours on the ground. I'm not sure the pax loads from BZN to BOI are going to be worth it. Sure, it looks good on paper, but how are you going to get people from, say OLF, to BZN? Route them to BIL, then on GQ Flt 6013 to BOI via MSO, then turn them around and send them back to BZN? There has to be a different way (better way) to add BZN into our list of destination cities, but I think it would involve a major overhaul of our flights...

fluffy

P.S. Oh, and yes, we did fly into DFW. SunValley was right on.

EDIT- OLF = Wolf Point, MT

[Edited 2005-06-14 19:13:44]

User currently offlineAAtakeMeAway From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2844 times:

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 20):
EAS= Essential Air Service. Backed by funds from the Federal Government. Think they pay like 50% of the cost to operate the flight...not sure about exact numbers...

Thanks for the info!  wave 


User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 20):
The BOI-BZN route is a bad idea IMO. Reliable sources (aka pilots) say there was no real research, just the fact that 2 a/c sit in BOI for 3-4 hours on the ground. I'm not sure the pax loads from BZN to BOI are going to be worth it. Sure, it looks good on paper, but how are you going to get people from, say OLF, to BZN? Route them to BIL, then on GQ Flt 6013 to BOI via MSO, then turn them around and send them back to BZN? There has to be a different way (better way) to add BZN into our list of destination cities, but I think it would involve a major overhaul of our flights...

I don't really think GQ is adding BZN to get customers from Wolf Point to Bozeman. They are working closely with America West & Horizon to feed the new Bozeman flight with customers who originate in Cities south, & southwest of BOI to get to BZN with a connection in BOI. Example HP-PHX-BOI-GQ-BOI-BZN .


User currently offlineDCrawley From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 371 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

This last fall and winter from September to February I flew the MWH - SEA route with GU on their Metro's. The loads were less than nominal. Most flights, it would be me and 1 other passenger. What I loved about the Metro's is that in seat 1B they had a headset plug-in so I'd just reach in my brain bag and listen to it all. There was no mic jack, but if you yelled up to the cockpit the pilots could hear you. I know a good amount of them, great people! I left MWH a couple days before the last flight and they were talking about how the landing fees at SEA had increased too much so they were switching to PDX and were going to start flying PDX - MWH, GEG. Don't know what happened with it, but glad I got to fly on the popsicle stick with wings while they are still in the air!

Memories,

-D.K. Crawley



"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive."
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2718 times:

Quoting SunValley (Reply 22):
I don't really think GQ is adding BZN to get customers from Wolf Point to Bozeman

I'm just saying that while it may be great for the folks in BZN and for HP, it don't do jack for the rest of the GQ cities. They (hq in Billings) haven't thought much about integrating BZN with the rest of the routes.... There is money to be made with the EAS cities that are far away from BZN, not just for BOI and other airline connections. Just a thought...

Quoting DCrawley (Reply 23):
they were switching to PDX and were going to start flying PDX - MWH, GEG. Don't know what happened with it,

I believe the route goes PDX - MWH - BOI. The only way to get to GEG is Flt 2581 and Flt 2552. 2581 runs BIL - HLN - GTF (combo for now, supposedly temporary) - FCA - GEG. 2552 runs BIL - GTF - GEG. Then both planes turn around and come back the same way.

Big Scare Air, Tubes of terror in the sky... Metros - Our flying culverts  bigthumbsup 

fluffy


25 SunValley : I don't think GQ is in business simply for the satisfaction of "DOING JACK" for each city on it's system, or any other city or airline for that matte
26 Stirling : Did you mean something else for "GU" or is it a mistype of "GQ", as "GU" is Aviateca.... The route map on the website link provided doesn't even show
27 GQfluffy : More then aware of that; I live here (in Montana). All I am trying to say is this: I think it is great that Big Sky is changing and adding new destin
28 SunValley : GQfluffy, This is not unique to Montana. Look at Cities in Wyoming. If a customer wants to go from JAC to CPR, they must go from JAC to either SLC or
29 Post contains images GQfluffy : Well aware of that. I guess we're just going to Hubs in the rural US. filler filler fluffy
30 Blackhawk144 : I'm actually somewhat surprised to hear that BOI is Big Sky's most profitable market. I heard that they were strongly considering BOI-PDT (Pendleton).
31 GQfluffy : By the time anymore kind of growth will/could be announced, we (GQ) will most likely be operating just Beechcraft 1900s. The last Metroliner will be
32 Chugach : I too wonder about the BOI-PDT service. I remember an article in the East Oregonian stating that Big Sky was considering it but I never heard anything
33 UA_727 : Can we please make one important distinction here? There is a significant difference between "most profitable" market, and "market with great potentia
34 Post contains images GQfluffy : Wow. Bringing this thread back to reality. Myself as well. Welcome to me list of respectfulness, sir. One thing should be remembered; EAS will not alw
35 SunValley : This fare structure doesn't support the operations and GQ cannot survive on this. That is why you will see changes in their business Model over the n
36 PassBureauMgr : This is all very interesting, as I was on a QX flight to Portland recently, and sat next to a marketing person for Big Sky. During our conversation, t
37 Azjubilee : Put it this way... MAIR did not buy BigSky to operate 1900s in EAS markets. Any growth with a/c over 19 seats will be flown by Meaba Airlines pilots.
38 Post contains images DCrawley : Ah sorry a day off and late night with beer and women threw off my keystroke! Yes, thanks for the correct Stirling, I did mean GQ. Sure hope to God G
39 Post contains links ShortSquat : Here's a page with some info on BigSky's fleet, news, etc- http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/65/18/
40 GQfluffy : A good site, but a bit dated. We don't fly to N. Dakota anymore, and only have 4-5 Metros. At least 6 Beeches, think we just brought a 7th online. flu
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Some Question About Big Sky Airlines posted Fri Aug 23 2002 19:37:21 by VH-ANA
Can We Talk? CE2K Or CE1K..... posted Tue Nov 9 1999 04:06:42 by SJC-Alien
How Big Can We Expect To See Jet2 Becoming? posted Mon Sep 26 2005 02:33:14 by Aerlingus330
EAS Update: Big Sky, Mesa Bid For ART, OGS, MSS posted Thu Nov 23 2006 12:06:36 by FCYTravis
Any Info About Ope-sky Morocco-EEC? posted Fri Nov 17 2006 12:37:43 by Beaucaire
FlyFirstClass...who Can Tell Me About This Airline posted Thu Nov 16 2006 23:05:34 by Mainrunway
Mair Aims To Expand Big Sky Airlines posted Sun Nov 12 2006 03:54:44 by KarlB737
Why Can't We Be Friends? posted Fri Oct 27 2006 02:28:18 by KSUpilot
Big Sky MDW-SPI posted Wed Oct 18 2006 04:19:36 by MtnWest1979
Chalk's Now Aka Big Sky! posted Sun Aug 20 2006 05:46:10 by SkyexRamper