AirWest From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6041 times:
Great, another KSTP story about NW. Hometown media is always so quick to jump on companies in their town. I doubt that passengers care if NW uses scab mechanics or union folks on their planes.
ASFlyer From United States, joined May 2005, 541 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5988 times:
You think not? I guarantee you that people wanting to travel without having their plans interrupted by a strike will happily book with another airline to save themselves the aggrivation. These SCAB "mechanics" are a bunch of losers - they were so ashamed of what they were doing that they couldn't even show their faces on camera. That won't save them from what will befall them if they actually cross a picket line, nor will it save their jobs once the NW mechanics and the company mend fences and they go back to work. They'll all be sitting right where they deserve to be.... on the street.
Drewwright From United States, joined May 2001, 612 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5950 times:
Well, management doesn't give a $hit about labor groups so why would the pax care?
It was funny yet at the same time sad that the mechanics were so secretive about their identities. I'm sure they wouldn't be crossing a picket line unless they had to. I really feel for the guys that are out of work, but I would rather go on welfare than cross a picket line. This is sure to end the careers of those scab mechanics.
Drewwright From United States, joined May 2001, 612 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5902 times:
I hope you're being sarcastic.
The scabs sure as hell aren't doing it for Northwest so who do you think they're doing it for?? That's right...THEMSELVES!
Chgoflyer From United States, joined Nov 2003, 609 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5855 times:
im serious.. as the one who pays in this transaction im really tired of the airline industry unions and complaining what they dont have. If they dont like it they should get another profession. Unions ensure that their members get the most money for the least amount of work. We have all taken a hit... get over it.
DLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5824 times:
You people are all a bunch of hypocrites. You use the union to suck the money dry from your airline because you "need it" and "can't afford to live without it" and yet you go on strike. What's more, you get pissed at the people who actually DO need the money to live. Shut up.
Drewwright From United States, joined May 2001, 612 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5823 times:
Wow, such arrogance...ever thought of working in airline management?
You've obviously never worked in the airline industry or in any industry that is so quick to take advantage of the very people that keep it going. You may pay the fare but we're the ones that make the airline run. Do you think we get bonuses for getting flights in and out on time? Nope, we get a pat on the back and "There's always room for improvement!" and management gets the bonus. How fair is that? Exactly.
I will agree that in some instances some labor groups at some airlines have gotten sweet deals, too seet. But that is rare. The reality is that most of us don't make enough money and have to work another job to make ends meet. The reality is that pilots don't make money hand over fist, especially starting out.
Why don't you try putting yourself in the shoes of the flight attendant or pilot that is constantly getting $hit on by management and scheduling and see if you dont change your mind.
DLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5788 times:
Quoting Indy (Reply 9): There are a few things in life you don't do.
1. Piss on an electric fence.
2. Cross a picket line.
Now back to the real world where we have this thing called "money." It's used to buy things and the less you have, the less you get. By Striking, some people won't be able to afford to do this thing called "living" so they find it necessary to just suck it up to make ends meet.
Quoting Drewwright (Reply 8): we're the ones that make the airline run
At this point in line (the picket line, that is), you obviously are doing nothing to make the airline run.
Quoting Drewwright (Reply 8): Why don't you try putting yourself in the shoes of the flight attendant or pilot that is constantly getting $hit on by management and scheduling and see if you dont change your mind.
In a few years when I can finish my pilot ratings, I plan to start regional flying. Why? Because I don't care how many hours I have to fly, the more the better, I just want to kiss the sky. Don't get me wrong I'm not anti-union, the unions do offer some very nice protection. What I am against is the picketers harassing the people who actually need to make money and thus cross picket lines. It's not fair to them that you think you can just stop them from actually producing something instead of standing outside throwing rocks.
Dmt52 From United States, joined Apr 2004, 63 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5771 times:
Quoting Drewwright (Reply 8): Do you think we get bonuses for getting flights in and out on time? Nope, we get a pat on the back and "There's always room for improvement!" and management gets the bonus. How fair is that? Exactly.
I will agree that in some instances some labor groups at some airlines have gotten sweet deals, too seet. But that is rare. The reality is that most of us don't make enough money and have to work another job to make ends meet. The reality is that pilots don't make money hand over fist, especially starting out.
I'm sorry but this is the real world. These problems are NOT unique to airline industry. In all forms of business there are the same things happening. We all face the same issues at our own jobs. Everyday I am told to cut costs and work harder. For companies to succeed they need to make a profit. If you don't like it, find another line of work.
ASFlyer From United States, joined May 2005, 541 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5662 times:
Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 10): Don't get me wrong I'm not anti-union, the unions do offer some very nice protection.
By the way, how do you think the unions provide this "very nice protection"? It's by letting the companies know that they don't hold all the cards, that if they start to treat us like shit we can walk away and they will be stuck explaining why to all their passengers.
ASFlyer From United States, joined May 2005, 541 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5652 times:
This thread is a pretty good indication of how many people on these boards actually work in the industry - not many. Just a bunch of backseat driving airplane lovers.
Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 15): Just a bunch of backseat driving airplane lovers.
No we are not just back seat drivers... understand we pay for that seat so therefore we have an opinion. Unfortunately for you at this point the flying public is against the unions. Be truthful you can bellyache about fuel cost and 9/11 but service on US airlines sucks.
Supa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5584 times:
"Scabs" are good, hard-working Americans with qualifications who show up ready. Power to them. America functions thanks to those who show up to work.
All this talk about big evil corporations, but what are unions doing about Halliburton? About Enron, WorldCom, Dick Grasso and all the rich CEOs? Nothing. Unions have no influence over the truly dangerous and powerful businesses. Only airlines... which are the least lucrative business sector in the USA. Yep, but they are evil... or something... duhhhh, Dr. Lector just ate my brain.
Unions have a long history, but that does not mean they are worth squat to society.
.
IslandHopperCO From Micronesia, joined Dec 2003, 221 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5577 times:
If you NW union employees hate your company so much, and they've bent you over and screwed you so bad, why do you continue to work for them? I've never understood this whole strike business. If you hate your job find a new one. Don't harrass or look down on other people who would give anything to have your job (the so-called scabs).
N867BX From United States, joined Nov 2004, 339 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5569 times:
Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 15): This thread is a pretty good indication of how many people on these boards actually work in the industry - not many. Just a bunch of backseat driving airplane lovers.
Part of the reason that I left the industry was that I was quite sick of all the "workers of the world unite" talk. If you don't like your job then quit. It is a free country after all. You are free to go on strike. The airline is free to hire others to do your job. If the job is "so bad" then no one will want it. If people want your job, then I guess it was not so bad after all. Perhaps you could take a class in economics that would explain how a free market is suppose to work.
Indy From United States, joined Jan 2005, 3870 posts, RR: 10 Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5511 times:
Quoting IslandHopperCO (Reply 18): If you NW union employees hate your company so much, and they've bent you over and screwed you so bad, why do you continue to work for them? I've never understood this whole strike business. If you hate your job find a new one. Don't harrass or look down on other people who would give anything to have your job (the so-called scabs).
To quote a famous American...
"If you don't like your job you don't go on strike. You just go in every day and do it really half-assed. Thats the American way" Homer J. Simpson.
ASFlyer From United States, joined May 2005, 541 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5473 times:
Quoting Chgoflyer (Reply 16): No we are not just back seat drivers... understand we pay for that seat so therefore we have an opinion. Unfortunately for you at this point the flying public is against the unions. Be truthful you can bellyache about fuel cost and 9/11 but service on US airlines sucks.
Irev210 From United States, joined Jun 2005, 36 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5459 times:
Quoting Drewwright (Reply 8): Wow, such arrogance...ever thought of working in airline management?
You've obviously never worked in the airline industry or in any industry that is so quick to take advantage of the very people that keep it going. You may pay the fare but we're the ones that make the airline run. Do you think we get bonuses for getting flights in and out on time? Nope, we get a pat on the back and "There's always room for improvement!" and management gets the bonus. How fair is that? Exactly..
How much $ do you deserve? $500,000 a year? My question to you is, who really keeps the airline going? Is it really just you/ground crew or is it a combination of management and ground crew? Do you think you should get bonuses for getting flights in and out on time? What qualifications does management have compared to others working on the ground? Should the guy who went to school, got those perfect grades, went to college, went on and got his MBA, leave school with 150,000 in debt make the same as someone who’s qualifications are nothing more than a High School degree? Do you really think all people are created equal and are all supposed to have high paying management jobs?
I get frustrated hearing how everyone deserves more. It is all ME ME ME ME. Have some pride in your job, do a good job because it is what you are there to do. Work harder, look for other jobs, try to get promoted. Energy you are spending whining is energy you could be using to improve your life.
ASFlyer From United States, joined May 2005, 541 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5457 times:
Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 20): Now that you mention it, if your job is so bad, perhaps we could trade? I'm about to start a summer job at a supermarket, after that I don't know what I'll do as I'll be a student again, but I would love to work in the airline industry and from your attitude, I'm judging you wouldn't mind spotty summer jobs and the possibility of not having enough money to make ends meet!
no thank you, that's your destiny. I already have a good job and am planning on keeping it that way.
APFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5449 times:
Quoting Drewwright (Reply 8): . Do you think we get bonuses for getting flights in and out on time? Nope, we get a pat on the back and "There's always room for improvement!" and management gets the bonus. How fair is that? Exactly.
I work in retail, Im in the same situation, I work many 18 hour days and I get no bonus at all, while the managers come in with new cars and movados after they get their bonus check. I could get benefits but they have raised the price on them so much its not worth it. Do I strike? Do I try and unionize? No, why because if at anytime I dont want to work there anymore I can leave and someone will be there to replace me.
ASFlyer From United States, joined May 2005, 541 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5446 times:
Quoting Irev210 (Reply 24): I get frustrated hearing how everyone deserves more.
Then why not get frustrated with management? The rank and file aren't denying that concessions are necessary. We aren't asking for more at all. We are saying that management is asking for far more than necessary.
KITH From United States, joined Mar 2004, 305 posts, RR: 1 Reply 25, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5416 times:
Management has screwed up a lot in the past. Unions have screwed up a lot in the past. Going on strike won't solve the problems, it will only alienate the vital customers which in order to get back to the pay/benefits of the 1990's YOU (management/unions) need. Scabs, yes they are, but are they just trying to feed their family? Yes they are, they didn't think "im going to go out and take food out of a NW mechanic's mouth today", they went out to work, to survive and continue living and prosper. Nothing wrong with that.
What is wrong however is that the unions/management are acting on old grudges and refusing to compromise. Yes it sucks having money taken from you, and I'm sure Doug/Glen/Gerry would all love bigger paychecks, and they do make a lot more then the rank and file. But will your concessions give them a big raise? No. Get back to the table, do whatever it takes to get an agreement and all of this is not needed, scabs or no scabs, at least they're keeping the airline running. -Matt in KITH
26 PhilSquares: There is the real problem! The mentality of travelers in the US, is they want to fly from point A to point B at an unrealistic price and get first cl
27 Midex461: Actually, I get $50 for doing that - provided they go out on time 65% of the time. Before anybody says anything, I work on the ramp for HP in PHX. We
28 Flick70: Unions were originally created to safeguard the worker. At this point, unless you are a coal miner, unions don't have a place in the world. We have ac
29 Northwestair: Man I'm just curious what airline the News caster took to TUS. Also there are a lot of Managers that work in the Airline Industry that don't have MBA'
30 PhilSquares: Would you care to elaborate? I didn't realize the union hired workers, I thought it was the company. Your entire statement is really based on no work
31 Av8rPHX: In a few years when I can finish my pilot ratings, I plan to start regional flying. Why? Because I don't care how many hours I have to fly, the more t
32 KAUSpilot: Your opinion will change after you earn your first JOB as a pilot. Your current perspective is a pathetic way to view a job as a professional pilot.
33 Northwestair: KAUSPilot Very well said I hope this kid listens to your comments. I think we all felt like this kid one time or another. I remember when I wentthru m
34 KAUSpilot: Strikes are RARE. When a union does strike, it is almost always for a very good reason. A legal strike takes time and careful planning. It is the "nu
35 DLKAPA: The generic employee in question has no written, expressed, implied, or otherwise obligation to his fellow employees. What he does have is an obligat
36 KAUSpilot: It's because the result of the strike will ultimately benefit the employee and his or her family over the long term. In most cases, scabbing is the e
37 Nosedive: See this is what sorta bugs me, union backlash. I will admit that unions have increased the working conditions a lot, but I kinda find it unfair that
38 MxCtrlr: I've skimmed over most of these posts (due in part to the normal a.net garbage associated with these topics) however, one thing no one seems to be not
39 MxCtrlr: That has to be the most blatantly arrogant statement I've read on here for a while. Do you honestly think that only MBA's are the only smart people o
40 KC135TopBoom: I did see you offer to show yours. I hope the new NW mechanics like your old jobs. We don't. Great answer And your union doesn't give a shit about yo
41 Malaysia: Thats why I never work Union and the Union are Vestiges of another Era
42 Hammer: It's not that the employees hate NWA, there are a few things that piss off every worker no matter where he/she works, it could be a supermarket or a
43 WeAreUnited: Unions are not the vestiges of a by-gone era. I ask you: 'Who is going to look out for the needs and desires of the worker?' The lone laborer does not
44 HZ747300: They are not "so ashamed of what they do" more than they realize that union brainwashing whipped its membership into such a frenzy they know that rev
45 IADBGO: It is amazing how this group can go from union bashing to union loving (or at least scab hating) at the flick of a switch. IADBGO
46 Slider: As a man, husband and father, my first obligation is to myself and my family. Solidarity ends where my family begins. My life and family are far more
47 TheGreatChecko: Please enlighten me as to how it doesn't hold water. I don't really know where I stand on this one, however, statements like that don't add to the di
48 Hiflyer: One side note on the jetblue proposal to allow pilots to do west coast turns without a relief pilot...from other forums I have read the pilots at jetb
49 Aa757first: My aunt was the VP of Nursing at a major hospital in suburban Philadelphia. She told me an interesting story of nurses striking at a nearby hospital.
50 Erj-145mech: Not exactly in the airline industry, but when the FAA air traffic controllers went on strike back in 1981, then President Reagan fired all of the str
51 Ssides: Given the manner in which our corrupt, mob-infested, violent union movement has treated diligent workers (aka "scabs"), I can't blame them.
52 Flick70: Correct...airlines hire the worker. The unions make it virtually impossible to fire the worker...and also corners them by not allowing them to have m
53 DCAflyboy: I for one am tired of the constant battles between management and unions. I have worked for two airlines in twelve years; one union and one non-union.
54 WeAreUnited: My aunt was the VP OF NURSING... Do you suppose she might have had a little bit of a bias? I have respect for your opinion and experiences, DCAflyboy
55 Drewwright: I'm tired of the management vs. unions as well. Unfortunately, the unions are necessary in many cases. I honestly hate paying dues and would LOVE to w
56 Jamake1: I think what is most troubling here is that NWA management appears to not be negotiating in good faith. They have requested a release from mediation a
57 WingnutMN: With AMFA asking all the other Unions to respect their strike and not cross their lines, my question is this...How can they expect the IAM Union to re
58 DL021: Thats productive..... and the statement of a person without a family to feed. There's arrogance in and of itself. What you know about the airline ind
59 UAL777: Oh yeah, KC135Topboom: You can fly 100 hours in a month....NOT 75. Just so you know.
61 DL021: Which is 2.5 workweeks for the rest of us.....boo-freaking-hoo. The rest of the work month is spent doing what? Oh, and can anyone document an instan
62 Drewwright: Air Tran and Jet Blue have nothing to do with this issue. Most LCC's are unionized just like the majors.
63 DCAflyboy: Yes, I do believe unions are a necessary evil. I currently work under AFA-CWA. I am a male FA and people who are pro-union often tell me that I would
64 Luvfa: More like peoples expectations of service. Truth be told this is a different era of aviation. Due to market condition the price of airfare is the same
65 Luvfa: Southwest is one of the most unionized airlines of any major airline yet we don't seem to have the contentious atmosphere the other airlines have. We
66 DCAflyboy: I can't agree more. It's a sad but true fact that the percentage of what airlines have made in profit compared to the revenue they have made in their
67 Jay4jet: Unions have increased the standard of living for all working Americans. They have caused a raising of the bar in pay and benefits for all blue collar
68 Aztec01: Interesting comment. My ex was involved on the management end of a UAW union drive. Her opinion of management's ineptitude would cause most of you to
69 DCAflyboy: What do you mean by "the legacy business model"? If you mean hub and spoke, that seems to be exactly what JetBlue and Airtran are as well. Not to men
70 DCAflyboy: Not such a great standard of living for the 25,000 GM employees who will be out of work or to the thousands of employees who no longer have a job, pe
71 Chgoflyer: Check the fare from ord to msp with no sat night stay over.. and tell me I get what I pay for.... Last week was 714 rt in coach on a a plane older th
72 Jay4jet: You wont find a Toyota in my driveway, how about you?
73 Slider: Easy there, Milton Freidman, that's a grossly unqualified statement and wholly inaccurate. First, define "buying power." Because if you're talking ab
74 KC135TopBoom: No, union workers would not have a job, had it not been for the paying customers. In the early years, that may have been true. It has not been true s
75 DCAflyboy: I don't even have a car. I live in Washington and work for US. I can't afford one.
76 Jay4jet: Case in point...you lay down puppy dogs voted yes to give away years of hard earned contracts.
77 DCAflyboy: You are exactly right. If I were not so passionate about it and didn't love what I do so much, I would probably be a much richer person and have bett
78 DCAflyboy: Our new contract is not THAT bad. Most of the intelligent FAs realized that it had to be brought in line with the competition in order for us to surv
79 Jay4jet: Not true...my Union brothers and sisters are the union, we are the union. We stand together for one another. A union is a business and it takes money
80 DCAflyboy: Plus, what really killed us was the 21% across-the-board pay cut we endured for months. On top of not getting my flying time in each month I was flat
81 DCAflyboy: LOL..LOL...I hope you work for HP and you tell me this when we merge our seniority list -- as date of hire!! LOL
82 Jay4jet: Gee a flight attendant working for a major US carrier, with many years of seniority, that cant even afford a car. And I'm told we are working under "
83 B744F: That's a dangerous slippery slope to start on. There will always be somebody to do it cheaper, the point of a Union is to make sure it's done correct
84 DCAflyboy: Who says I'm senior? I have seven years at US. And affordability is only a minor factor. Washington has the second largest subway system in the count
85 DCAflyboy: I don't disagree. The problem, however, is there are too many hands in the cookie jar. It's a constant one upmanship between labor groups and other a
86 Jay4jet: Scab... 8 entries found for scab. scab ( P ) Pronunciation Key (skb) n. A crust discharged from and covering a healing wound. Scabies or mange in dome
87 KAUSpilot: FYI, there's something in the world of flying called a "duty day", typically 12-16 hours long. Guess what? Flight crew isn't compensated for duty hou
89 Jay4jet: I'm a line tech for a major US airline represented by AMFA. We are threatening a strike because the company wants to lay off 75% of our membership an
90 Jay4jet: Not here at this airline. A STRIKE is our only trump card and I'm willing to bet the farm and play it.
91 DCAflyboy: I hear what you're saying but if a strike puts the company out of business then there is no pension, no job and no pay, period.
92 Jay4jet: So be it then...I'd rather die standing than to live on my knees !
93 DCAflyboy: Again, it just goes to show that unions don't care for the company as whole or their fellow employees. It's all about "me". I respect your devotion, n
94 Midex461: That's not the only conditions that get me the $50. We also have to have customer complaints in the single digits. I'm not trying to lecture you here
95 N867BX: Someone correct me if I am wrong, but this is what happened at CO. The company hired replacement workers and some union members eventually returned t
96 Jay4jet: I'm more then willing to roll up my sleeves and help get this airline back on track. I do it every time I'm called to duty. I am very aware of the tu
97 Glideslope: I'll agree with the Electric Fence, but seriously, are you in touch with reality on the second statement? Do you think it is 1933? Unions are finishe
98 PRAirbus: What ever happened to freedom of speech, democracy and diversity? Live and let live! Accept others points of view and differences! Unions are good and
99 Tackleberry970: I love Union people. SCABS. Personally, I'll take a non-union employee over a unionized one EVERY TIME I can! Union folk only care about "what can I T
100 Usdcaguy: All I can say is that I make less than any of the mechanics going on strike, and I have a master's degree and no job protection. Where in the world is
101 Chgoflyer: Grow Up. Anyone know the average age of retirement of a UA or NWA f/a? Then whats the average age of lets say a KL/AF flight attendant?
102 NKP S2: Of course, the differences in the nature of the jobs themselves have nothing to do with this? And this makes one immenantly ( more ) valuable, much l
103 N867BX: I'm not certain if you work for NW, but if more mechanics at NW had your work ethic they would be in a much better position to bargain. If you work a
104 N867BX: I forgot to tell all of you that I have received three postcards in the mail, the latest from AvTechs offering the following: $32 an hour 40 hour guar
105 SHUPirate1: Or, worse, you could strike, and have 100% of your membership lose your job. If you don't believe that, look at Alaska Air's rampers in Seattle/Tacom
106 9844: OIL is going to 65 next year..Scab all ya want.Wages will come down again!
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