CXoneWorld From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 311 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6153 times:
Despite recent media reports that Qatar Airways will order 60 aircrafts at the Paris show -- with the odds in Airbus' favour -- Reuters was told on Thursday that the airline has yet to make up its mind between the 787 and A350.
"No decision has been made yet but Qatar Airways aims to purchase 60 new planes from either Boeing's (787) Dreamliner or Airbus' A350," the source told Reuters. An order of that size would be worth about $9 billion.
Still, a split order is likely to be ruled out. "It doesn't make business sense to go half Boeing half Airbus because the costs of maintenance for parts and for training staff on different systems would be high."
BoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1588 posts, RR: 18 Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6101 times:
PR BS... they have been studying this over and over the higher ups know what they want... a better price! it's been decided but they just don't want to announce it yet for pricing reasons... make Airbus sweat...
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 65 Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5971 times:
Boeing have the advantages of lower operating cost and lower manufacturing cost. Airbus need to offer a lower price to win, but unless Airbus are willing to sell at a loss, Boeing can offer the lower price.
DeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 19 Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5926 times:
Maybe they are waiting fro EK to decide first? However, if they wont order an A/B split, then i have a feeling they will go for the A350, since they have been quite Airbus so far and the A350 is (-900) bigger then the 787, and thats what they want.
But who knows, what if they go for a 777 / 787 split
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5846 times:
my bet is on the A350, but that's what I said about the AC order too..so....ummm...we'll just leave it at that...
Dalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5670 times:
Hasn't Airbus said they now expect 350 orders in the weeks after Le Bourget and not at the show?
Hasn't QR said that they will definitely announce an order at Le Bourget?
If so, then the chances of a QR 350 order aren't that high IMO.
Monteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 31 Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5396 times:
Quoting Dalecary (Reply 6): Hasn't Airbus said they now expect 350 orders in the weeks after Le Bourget and not at the show?
No, 150 and that was for the A350 alone. I think it best to wait until the airshow because everything else being said right now is hardly reputable.
Quoting Dalecary (Reply 6): Hasn't QR said that they will definitely announce an order at Le Bourget?
They will definitely order soon, and some say the deal is already finalised so I guess Le Bourget is the logical choice for an announcement as it will give the airline the greatest amount of PR possible.
Quoting Dalecary (Reply 6): If so, then the chances of a QR 350 order aren't that high IMO.
Hmmm, logically I would have thought asking the other two questions would lead you to assume that it was likely they would order the A350. But you're right, they will more than likely go with the 787.
Dalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5362 times:
Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 8): Quoting Dalecary (Reply 6):
Hasn't Airbus said they now expect 350 orders in the weeks after Le Bourget and not at the show?
Let me clear this up. I mean A350 orders and not 350 orders in total.
Sq212 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 272 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5326 times:
Wukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1013 posts, RR: 17 Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5305 times:
Quoting Sq212 (Reply 10): Shocker for A if it turns out to be in B favor.
Sq212 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 272 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5162 times:
I think a "disapointment" would probably be the term. QR is a pretty good Airbus customer and was one of the candidates to launch the A350 along with EK. But in the end, what is important for them it to pick the aircraft that makes the most sense to them and I have little doubt that they could use either plane effectively... so I guess it comes down to price and as someone has said it seems that Boeing have the ability to go lower than Airbus on this particular plane.
The time frame may also be an issue? When would the deliveries be expected?
Sq212 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 272 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5092 times:
They were also an all-Boeing customer before they became an all-Airbus customer.
Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 14): was one of the candidates to launch the A350 along with EK.
Says whom? This order has long been rumoured to be listing in Boeing's direction, it hasn't been until *this* week that there have been rumours that Airbus has a credible chance of winning part/all of the order. Remember the following:
1. Qatar is not looking for the 300-seat aircraft that EK wants. It was first proposed as a mix of 787-8/9 from Boeing or A358 from Airbus, in this event, the A359 "advantage" is a moot point. How well does the A358 fare with both the 787 variants on either side?
2. Qatar was eagerly lobbying Boeing to move the -9 EOS up to 2010 from 2012. In the last month, Boeing has done this.
This could repeat the awful 777 teaser, but if Airbus has been counting on QR for a launch order, they are being way more speculative than I would ever have imagined.
Monteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 31 Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5051 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 16): They were also an all-Boeing customer before they became an all-Airbus customer.
Yes, but of course I meant of recent times.
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 16): Says whom? This order has long been rumoured to be listing in Boeing's direction, it hasn't been until *this* week that there have been rumours that Airbus has a credible chance of winning part/all of the order.
Long rumoured in here, but outside of here and particularly at uni I had been hearing rumours up until last month that there was a very lucrative negotiation for A350 frames from QR. It seems they stalled at some point last month.
Which of course is why I said above that I believe the 787 deal is done and dusted.
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 16): Qatar is not looking for the 300-seat aircraft that EK wants. It was first proposed as a mix of 787-8/9 from Boeing or A358 from Airbus, in this event, the A359 "advantage" is a moot point. How well does the A358 fare with both the 787 variants on either side?
Of course as I have also said, it seems the 788 is the better plane so it should be no surprise that we will more than likely see it in QR colours. I think the fact that they were considering Airbus was purely a price/deal consideration more than a "perfect-fit" case.
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 16): Qatar was eagerly lobbying Boeing to move the -9 EOS up to 2010 from 2012. In the last month, Boeing has done this.
So am I to take it that QR will receive their order before some of the existing 787 customers? I would expect with a large order of 60 frames they would have some degree of elevation in the production line.
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 16): This could repeat the awful 777 teaser, but if Airbus has been counting on QR for a launch order, they are being way more speculative than I would ever have imagined.
I am not sure that Airbus were "Counting," on this order as such (or as they possibly are on the EK order) but I still think they will be disappointed not to win this one.
Dalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4974 times:
Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 17): So am I to take it that QR will receive their order before some of the existing 787 customers? I would expect with a large order of 60 frames they would have some degree of elevation in the production line.
Basically, yes. QR have been offered 2008 slots. The Seattle Times had a piece about 2-3 weeks ago saying that QR had accepted a proposal for 10 788s. Whether Boeing can get this proposal acceptance to an MoU is unclear.
I still think this order is very murky and could go any way, including a split order. They want a lot of planes and their expansion plans are enormous. They might be best able to achieve this by using both manufacturers.
I think the order for 60 is deceptive and probably should read for "up to" 60. 30 firm + 30 options has been mentioned many a time for this order.
Things may have changed recently,however.
Monteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 31 Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4930 times:
Quoting Dalecary (Reply 18): Basically, yes. QR have been offered 2008 slots. The Seattle Times had a piece about 2-3 weeks ago saying that QR had accepted a proposal for 10 788s. Whether Boeing can get this proposal acceptance to an MoU is unclear.
Well done on QR's behalf I guess. I wonder which carriers are being "pushed back" if you could say that? Possibly Primaris, the two charter carriers or Ethiopian?
Quoting Dalecary (Reply 18): I still think this order is very murky and could go any way, including a split order. They want a lot of planes and their expansion plans are enormous. They might be best able to achieve this by using both manufacturers.
I think the order for 60 is deceptive and probably should read for "up to" 60. 30 firm + 30 options has been mentioned many a time for this order.
Its a possibility but its probably not likely. Not too many carriers are going with split orders nowadays however it could be possible considering the engine commonality between the two aircraft (allbeit bleedless v. non-bleedless versions). Maybe by next week we might know for sure?
I agree that it might be a 30+30 deal with Boeing though.
Dalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4893 times:
Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 19): Quoting Dalecary (Reply 18):
Basically, yes. QR have been offered 2008 slots. The Seattle Times had a piece about 2-3 weeks ago saying that QR had accepted a proposal for 10 788s. Whether Boeing can get this proposal acceptance to an MoU is unclear.
Well done on QR's behalf I guess. I wonder which carriers are being "pushed back" if you could say that? Possibly Primaris, the two charter carriers or Ethiopian?
QR have refundable 787 deposits on 2008 delivery slots. Whether they now take them up or not will be announced next week.
Not all 2009 delivery slots have been announced yet.
Nirvarma From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 91 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4787 times:
Didn't boeing increase the size of the 789 recently? I seem to remember a few threads/articles where it was mentioned that boeing had increased the wing span slightly to accommodate the slight stretch...for QR if I recall...or am I just dreaming?
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 65 Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4670 times:
Quoting Nirvarma (Reply 21): Didn't boeing increase the size of the 789 recently? I seem to remember a few threads/articles where it was mentioned that boeing had increased the wing span slightly to accommodate the slight stretch...for QR if I recall...or am I just dreaming?
In late 2004 Boeing increased the B787-8/9 wingspan slightly to leave open the possibility of someday further stretching it to a B787-10. Quite independently, in early 2005, after extensive modeling and wind tunnel testing, Boeing changed the shape of the aft fuselage, so that the last rows could accomodate one more seat each.
Scotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4586 times:
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 65 Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4557 times:
Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 23): The Economist newspaper, out today, is saying that both Qatar and Emirates will order between them 100 A350's at the Paris Air Show.
The Economist newspaper? Do you mean the Economist weekly news magazine? If the latter, they have a long enough lead time that they could already have gone to print before EK announced that they would not annouce an order at Le Bourget.
25 Abba: Do you care - just for once - to provide any documentation for such a sweeping statement? You might even not know the A350's specs! Abba
26 Scotron11: The Economist newspaper? Do you mean the Economist weekly news magazine? The Economist is a newspaper, not a magazine. The article is from their prin
27 Zvezda: I know enough about the manufacturing processes involved to make such a sweeping statement.
28 DfwRevolution: First: stop saying that because you don't want to here it, there is pleanty to know about the A350 and comparisons can be made. Second, the 787 will
29 DAYflyer: Just like AC and NW you mean? Since they are so late to order, I think 2009-2010 deliveries are likely-unless they have 2008 slots reserved. It would
30 N60659: In addition to Dfw's response, you may benefit significantly if you use the search function and look for previous discussions which contain several l
31 TGV: Apparently the 787 option is not any more considered by QR: QR announced on Monday to be planning to order "up to 60" A350 (delivery dates mid 2010 -
32 Widebody: Armchair specialists again thrown to the lions. On one side we keep hearing on this board that the A350 'still hasn't left the drawing boards...', and
33 Glacote: That's a little short as a backing fact. I would appreciate if you could point me back to them (I new to the forum). Source? I fail to understand thi
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