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Infants On Long Haul  
User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2849 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

On June 4th 2005, I flew CO 084 from EWR to TLV, and I was sitting in 42L (in the back of the a/c). The duration of the flight was 9 hours and 33 min.

in seats 43 A,B,C was a mother with 3 kids. One of them was a baby. This baby cried for total of 5 hours. A lot of passengers were getting annoyed because they were trying to sleep.

I was wondering what flight attendants could do about a situation like that when a handful of passengers are complaining and a baby is crying considering that it's a pretty long flight from EWR to TLV ??

Thanks in advance

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineC172 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4250 times:

There is nothing they can do, short of diverting and having police meet the disruptive baby at the gate.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4233 times:

While annoying, especially on long flights, what can a F/A do except offer the parent some help and assist in keeping the baby comfortable. A cranky infant or crying child can disrupt the peace and quiet in a cabin, the only good news is that most little ones will eventually stop crying and fall asleep.

When babies are seated near me on long haul flights, I hope for the best and prepare for the worst!


User currently offlineWunala From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 950 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

I think that there should be a seperate area on planes for children. I was hoping the A380 could offer thiss, but it doesn't seem to be happening. That way, they can make as much noise as they want and only f*** off other parents, not the rest of us, who have paid for a flight, and end up having to listen to their brats, that they can't control in the first place. I know some children are good on flights, but, one sweeping generalisations works for me.

User currently offlineZonky From New Zealand, joined Nov 2004, 432 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4217 times:

We had this problem wunala in C on Air Nz earlier this year. A 3 year old in the seat in front of us was very upset/tired crying.

They had come straight through AKL-LAX-LHR. Mum was ear plugs in, blindfold on & tryign to ignore.

Made it very difficult for my wife, I and our 18 month old to sleep in peace on our LAX-LHR sector.!

Yes- there is the generalisation bit, but in my experience of long hauling our infant:
Mammoth preperation!
Buy a seat - Take your car seat. They like the familiarity.
Stop off where possible.- 24 hours on a plane is bad for adults. For kids.....
Be responsible for your kids- keep them watered, entertained, rested.
Reasonable adult/child ratio...

To behonest, i think the problem is worse in business. I witnessed far too many passengers on this and other trips where they think beign in biz means they can go to sleep and leave it up to someone else.

I recall a poor 4 year old girl bored out of her mind ignored by her mum, mum waking up and panicing as she was gone, and she was found down in the rear galley being entertained by some great crew.


User currently offlineUPS Pilot From United States of America, joined May 1999, 871 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4208 times:

Please remember that their was a day when you crapped your diaper too. Some of us here still whine and cry and they are not infants.

User currently offlineDizzy8 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4170 times:

I agree with UPS Pilot! Babies are innocent and "not knoweth what in blazes is happening!" We just live in an age where one's personal convenience and comfort is paramount to all else. You could try offering to help the mom, use the headset, or, as a last resort...ask the flight attendant to intervene ...see following link:


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/14/national/main544011.shtml


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5697 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4167 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quote:
Mum was ear plugs in, blindfold on & tryign to ignore.



Quote:
I recall a poor 4 year old girl bored out of her mind ignored by her mum,

This is the real issue.. the parents... not the kids!!! Parents must accept that along with choosing that role also means they must take responsibility for it!!!

I have lots of sympathy(even tolerance) for distressed children.. hell, inside an airliner is a foreign and often distressing environment for many adults. If their parents ignore this and expect someone else to take the responsibility they are shirking, that is where my anger would be directed.

Having said that, it applies to much more of life than flying!!

Regards

Chris



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineAleksandar From Serbia, joined Jul 2000, 3236 posts, RR: 31
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4165 times:

Quoting Wunala (Reply 3):
That way, they can make as much noise as they want and only f*** off other parents, not the rest of us, who have paid for a flight, and end up having to listen to their brats, that they can't control in the first place.

I agree with you, it is an annoying situation, but.... Infants are very sensitive when air pressure changes and believe me, they don't cry because there is nothing better they can do, but because they are often in pain. When you feel some discomfort (a slight pain in ears) and it happens all the time in my case and I'm 31, multiply it by ten or more and you'll get the idea what the infant feels. When you do that, I believe you'll feel more simpathy.



R-E-S-P-E-C-T
User currently offlinePatrickj From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

Quoting Wunala (Reply 3):
That way, they can make as much noise as they want and only f*** off other parents, not the rest of us, who have paid for a flight, and end up having to listen to their brats, that they can't control in the first place.

I don't think most babies are by nature "brats", parents make em that way as they become toddlers, and the fact is any one of us could have been the crying baby when we first flew. Not a very charitable attitude.

FA's should be taught that most small children that cry during flight do so because of the pressure changes occurring on their inner ear and the fact that their estatian tubes (which equalize air pressure to the inner ear) are to small to allow air pressure to equalize. It is very painful and will cause even Mr. Wunala to cry like a baby.

Sucking on a bottle should help and/or placing a towel in a Styrofoam cup with hot water over the towel to create a little steam placed over the ear will also help the problem.

Parents should also control their children and airlines should provide some form of distraction especially on long haul flights.


User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5238 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4010 times:

Wunala:

I can tell by your attitude that you haven't had a baby or toddler. Normally, our small one went to sleep as soon as we took off, but our last trip wasnt' so easy.

Our AA flight from ORD to ATL was delayed 90 minutes, because the flight originated in PVD, and they had a foot of snow. So, AA decided to pull an arrival from PHX that was supposed to go to DCA.

If our son doesn't go to bed for his afternoon nap by 1:00, he won't take a nap, so needless to say, with a 1:30 pushback, we were doomed to a a flight with a screamer, as well as the other 20 some infants on board.

To make matters worse, we go stuck in DL's afternoon arrival bank, so we zig-zagged from BNA to ATL, adding nearly 20 minutes to our flying time.

The F/As were knocking themselves out trying to keep everyone happy. They definitely earned their pay for that trip.

By the way, we pay for our son to have a seat, knowing what can happen to lap children during emegency situations. So don't consider him a freeloader who is taking an F/As time away from the paying passengers. He is one, with his own AAdvantage account.


User currently offlineACdreamliner From UK - Scotland, joined May 2005, 519 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3986 times:

my worst experiance to date was in july 1995 on a flight from PMI-EDI, SpanAir MD-80, there was a really loud baby on the flight. Problem was it was my sister who was 2 years old at the time, i was 9ish. omg, she did not stop crying the whole time! there is not much you can do really!

on the plus side, it helped as i did not have to listen to the engines  Wink



Where are you going?
User currently offlineAleksandar From Serbia, joined Jul 2000, 3236 posts, RR: 31
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3931 times:

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 7):
This is the real issue.. the parents... not the kids!!! Parents must accept that along with choosing that role also means they must take responsibility for it!!!

Once I witnessed how parents can act very irresponsible. An FA had real problems to explain to a woman that she can't let her toddler stand up during taxi. I really admired the FA's calmness and her diplomatic skills for the few minutes. Eventually, even such a professional couldn't take such behavior of the parents and as an answer to statement such as: He always does what he wants and we don't want to influence them", FA yelled "Then you make him and fasten your seat belts!" Although parents took it as an insult, they obeyed.

But, it is a completely different kind of situation. The one explained above shows how the spoiled kid can make problems, while the whole thread started with crying infants.

Quoting Patrickj (Reply 9):
FA's should be taught that most small children that cry during flight do so because of the pressure changes occurring on their inner ear and the fact that their estatian tubes (which equalize air pressure to the inner ear) are to small to allow air pressure to equalize. It is very painful and will cause even Mr. Wunala to cry like a baby.

Sucking a bottle can only be a short-term solution and often even that doesn't help. One can only try to calm down his child and count the minutes before landing. As a fellow passengers and someone who often has problems with inner ear, I can understand both parents and poor kids.



R-E-S-P-E-C-T
User currently offlineKoenie From Belgium, joined Oct 2004, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3927 times:

The only problem I had with a child was on a MAD-BRU flight that I took after PTY-MAD.. so I was awfully tired. Here i had beside me a portuguese mother with her child... (about 6 or something)

The whole fucking flight he was hopping up and down his chair and nagging and being difficult.... and the considerate parent... did nothing but ignore it....

I didn't want to slap the child... but my god I have strangled the mother at least four times in my toughts!!!!!


User currently offlineUPS Pilot From United States of America, joined May 1999, 871 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

I have a suggestion to all of you that are annoyed with infants on flights. Go to Bose.com and order the Bose noise canceling headset. I have a pair and you can't even hear yourself talk. I have a 4 yr old and he has more Freq. Flier miles than most here. He is very good on flights. I have no problem with kids on flights.

User currently offlineKatekebo From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 704 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3883 times:

"I was wondering what flight attendants could do about a situation like that when a handful of passengers are complaining and a baby is crying considering that it's a pretty long flight from EWR to TLV ??"

I think this a completely wrong question. In a situation like that, the correct question should be: What can other fellow passengers to help the poor mother deal with a difficult situation like that?

My message to all these people who have an issue with babies or children travelling, making noise, crying, jumping, etc. - in few words, being babies and children: Your parents should have been banned from having sex and producing such narrow minded, intollerant, immature individuals like you.

I have been travelling (on airplanes, ships, sailing boats, etc.) with my two kids since they have been 5 months old. Yes, sometimes they get fed-up and make some fuzz, but it's the duty and obligation of adults to make sure that the small ones ae comfortable, at ease and can feel secure in the environment that surrounds them.

(My two cents)


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3647 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3851 times:

You can always put tranquilizers in their bottles.......


PHX based
User currently offlineHomer71 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2244 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3821 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 16):
You can always put tranquilizers in their bottles.......

OK, that's a little too extreme...everyone knows a dose of Nyquil should do the trick  Wink

Is it still the parents' fault if they're doing everything they could for the child and s/he continues crying?

For the other whiners, if they never had children before, then I can understand their ignorance and intolerance: I use to feel that way before having kids. The only solution is for them to have some in order to see the idiocy of their thinking.

BTW, flying next week to California with my 7, 4, and 1 year old (oh, yeah, and my wife) and, thankfully, I got a seat for the toddler. I might have to intoduce him to chewing gum for his ears...



"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3811 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 16):
You can always put tranquilizers in their bottles.......

I am sure that you realize that a flight attendant for a US airline just plead guilty to charges brought against him for doing just that - he has admitted to putting Xanax, a tranquilizer, into a cup of apple juice intended for a noisy child.


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3647 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3737 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 18):
I am sure that you realize that a flight attendant for a US airline just plead guilty to charges brought against him for doing just that - he has admitted to putting Xanax, a tranquilizer, into a cup of apple juice intended for a noisy child.

That's why I said it.  Wink



PHX based
User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3697 times:

Quoting CO7e7 (Thread starter):
I was wondering what flight attendants could do about a situation like that when a handful of passengers are complaining and a baby is crying considering that it's a pretty long flight from EWR to TLV ??

It's funny how many 21-26 year old EXPERTS on parenting we have on this forum. Many of you make me laugh.
First, flight attendants are there to ensure our safety. Not only do they not have to take care of my children, I don't want them to touch my children.

Quoting Wunala (Reply 3):
I think that there should be a seperate area on planes for children. I was hoping the A380 could offer thiss, but it doesn't seem to be happening. That way, they can make as much noise as they want and only f*** off other parents, not the rest of us, who have paid for a flight, and end up having to listen to their brats, that they can't control in the first place. I know some children are good on flights, but, one sweeping generalisations works for me.

Wunala, I think there should be a separate section for IDIOTS on an airplane. I know your seat would be waiting for you.
First, I always make sure to PAY for my flight before I board it, and while I'm doing that I also make sure that my wife's and daughters' seats are also paid for.
Second, my daughters are not brats. I have a 5 year old who appears to be a little more mature than you. Oh, and my wife and I do fine controling our children, even on airplanes.
Sweeping generalizations didn't do much for blacks, for jews, and for many other people on this Earth. I suggest you avoid them as well.
Please, DON'T HAVE CHILDREN!

Quoting Zonky (Reply 4):
Yes- there is the generalisation bit, but in my experience of long hauling our infant:
Mammoth preperation!
Buy a seat - Take your car seat. They like the familiarity.
Stop off where possible.- 24 hours on a plane is bad for adults. For kids.....
Be responsible for your kids- keep them watered, entertained, rested.
Reasonable adult/child ratio...

Don't forget to teach them expectations and consequences for bad behavior. Works wonders for us.

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 15):
I think this a completely wrong question. In a situation like that, the correct question should be: What can other fellow passengers to help the poor mother deal with a difficult situation like that?

My message to all these people who have an issue with babies or children travelling, making noise, crying, jumping, etc. - in few words, being babies and children: Your parents should have been banned from having sex and producing such narrow minded, intollerant, immature individuals like you.

I have been travelling (on airplanes, ships, sailing boats, etc.) with my two kids since they have been 5 months old. Yes, sometimes they get fed-up and make some fuzz, but it's the duty and obligation of adults to make sure that the small ones ae comfortable, at ease and can feel secure in the environment that surrounds them.

Katekebo:
Your points are excellent, except for one. Why do we keep referring to the "poor mother" who sounds so helpless and ignorant. My children have always traveled with both of their parents, and we both work and are able to afford good things for them. Therefore, neither one of us is "poor". The rest of your thread is excellent.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 16):
You can always put tranquilizers in their bottles.......

Yep, cost a NW flight attendant his job.

We have 9 and 5 year old girls. They have been traveling from California to LIM since they were born, at least once a year and often more than that. At one point, both had Aadvantage Gold status, at the ages of 7 and 3. Our girls have sat in business, in economy, in the front, the back, the left, the right. They have NEVER bothered anyone. We have often received compliments from fellow passengers, typically showing total surprise to see them seated when we were getting off the airplane. Their surprise stemmed from not realizing that two young children were on the airplane for the long journey.
My wife and I have taught them from early on that airplane travel is fun and we ensure that we make it fun for them. They love to carry their own "suitcases" that they bring on the plane with them and are filled with all the fun things they love to do, and all the goodies they love to eat.
It's really not too difficult, if you plan ahead.
FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3674 times:

I don't have children yet but I asked my sister and bro-in-law how they managed their two children (4 and 18 months at the time) on a 12 hour from ORD-NRT and NRT-NGO.

The secret they said, was preparing the children in advance. They spent time in front of a map talking about how long it takes. The boy loves machines, and they told him about the plane. They got him a window seat, and my father upgraded them to business. Before the flight they gave themselves plenty of time to get exercise and get their energy out. They tried to maintain a normal type schedule on the plane so that the kids had structure.

I look forward to the time when I can travel with my children. At least maybe my children will be interested in my hobby.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineKatekebo From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 704 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3667 times:

FLY2LIM,

I like your post, too. A quick qualifier on the "poor" mother - the original post implies that the mother was travelling with three kids, without the father. Frankly, I would not like to be in her place, hence the term I used. But whenever we travel together (my wife, my children and me), we share equally the "duties".


User currently offlineWdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 961 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 3660 times:

Ok... that day when I crapped on the floor. Well I just made sure that day is still present. Now my solution to this baby crying shit is having Boeing and Airbus team up with wonderkid playpens and create a safe ballpit down in the cargo hold for children to play in. And have one FA who is lactaiding to be able to breast feed those cranky babies needing warm fresh milk. We all know the A380 will have bowling allies and casinos. So it is obvious it will have the Automatic Baby asswiper 9000.

Another thing that angers me.... the drunk snoring business man. I think we should all be able to punch him in the face until he stops snoring. Or wear earplugs.

Maybe the airline being able to provide all with complimentary earplugs or charge a small miniscule fee (like really low) but of course only for eco would there be a charge.


User currently offlineMarkATL From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 3650 times:

I say put them all in automobile safety seats and safely strap them in the cargo hold next to the live animals.  

As a consession to jittery parents the airline could, if the parents insist offer the service as a gate check. However most would probably prefer to drop them off at check-in with their bags. Just think of the convenience of changing planes knowing that Junior and or Princess is being safely transferred via say DIAs baggage system. 

At the end of the trip, stop off have a couple of drinks while you wait for your kid to arrive at the baggage carousel. No fuss, no muss, no clumsy stroller and everyone is happy. 

[Edited 2005-06-12 08:36:38]

[Edited 2005-06-12 08:37:55]


"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
25 CXYYZ : Crying babies don't annoy me, so long as the parents are trying to sooth them. I just turn my music up and put up with it. I have come away from a fli
26 Justapassenger : I certainly agree that kids are the parent’s responsibility and all the practical suggestions made here are right-on, especially: 1) nursing/bottles
27 Aleksandar : ABSOLUTELY NOT! Hey, I don't have children but I still understand how the parents feel. Are you sure about that? It also sounds too extreme....
28 Richardw : ...don't earn good revenues so why bother.
29 UPS Pilot : FLY2LIM Just added you to my respected users. Amen
30 LTBEWR : Infants and toddlers can be a challange to a decent experience to others on a flight. There are a number of issues, some of which were mentioned above
31 Post contains images Homer71 : That's nice to know, too bad not all childless adults are like you I kind of meant it tongue-in-cheek, but he'll definitely have snacks to chew on to
32 Post contains images Aleksandar : Well, they should have in mind that it's not easy to travel with three kids. There are some medications, like ear-drops (or nose, forget me I'm not t
33 PA110 : That's so not going to happen! Airlines cannot forecast how many children will be on any given flight, and they're not going to risk setting aside pr
34 N867BX : If you break his nose he may snore even louder! I wonder if the overhead bins are soundproof.
35 FLY2LIM : Katekebo: I totally figured that. I was just standing up for the FATHERS of this world who give a damn about their kids (I actually do more than that
36 JrMafia90 : That would be a good idea. I was on a flight from FCO-EWR and there was a baby in the row right in front of us and it didn't make one sound! I was sh
37 Wdleiser : Well one NW FA had the brilliant idea of putting good ole valium into baby formula. Shut the baby up and got him fired. A double wammy!
38 Trolley Dolley : Sigh. Thankfully there are some airlines that understand what it's like to travel with children. On one LAN flight, the purser made an annoucement, at
39 DarthRandall : We could call it "Quiet Economy." I'd pay an extra twenty-five bucks, fifty on a longer flight. And you parents bitching that we non-parents aren't s
40 Homer71 : Good point...especially since the 9th word he has learned to say is "airplane" (of course, he pronounces it "eh-pane")
41 Ikramerica : I do think there should be a "family" section on longhaul aircraft. It would not be hard to do, since the Airlines know full well where the 1/2 price
42 Post contains images Aleksandar : Great! Few more words like the "airplane" and you should open First Class account for young gentleman. In just a few years time (or better said "in a
43 Post contains images Jacobin777 : lol...I had one on my flight yesterday, and it was smoooooth sailing (er...flying) sure, but if the mom doesn't care, why should I??? don't get your
44 BCAL : I was flying on a VS flight from LHR and this child behind me kept kicking the back of my seat, exceptionally hard for a small child. After enduring t
45 Wdleiser : The problem with little kids and gum and small candies like Jelly beans is them choking on it. That is the last thing you want... a choking baby and a
46 Ikramerica : well no, little babies can't chew gum or candy. but toddlers can chew candy, while they can't chew gum because they try to swallow it. and toddlers cr
47 YYZYYT : I know what you mean. My kids are the only people I will voluntarily surrender my window seat for! I am at present trying to teach my 3-year old how
48 Jetblue15 : Plain and simply. Suck it up. God knows most of us had to do it once in our life. I'll be that parent with that crying kid soon enough and I would wan
49 Spinzels : Thanks for this thread, very helpful for a father anxiously anticipating his first long haul trip with a small infant. Thanks in particular FLY2LIM an
50 YYZYYT : Spinzels - actually, most infant car seats are aircraft approved... the sticker on the side should specify. Another point - if you ever have an infant
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