Kahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5014 times:
With the advent of United Airlines Premium Service in the lucrative JFK-LAX, JFK-SFO market, would it be at all possible to forsee United Airlines in its reorganization, to switch out the 777's on JFK-LHR with the Premium Service 757 product?
From what has been discussed on this forum it would seem as if Premium Service is producing above passengers expectations and offering United Airlines a nice little bundle of cash. In addition wouldnt United Airlines offering Premium Service in the JFK-LHR market, be a step above what American Airlines offers for passengers in the First, Business and Economy cabin?
In closing what is the chance of seeing United Airlines Premium Service enter the Washington D.C. to Los Angeles, San Francisco, or London/Heathrow markets? Couldnt United Airlines trade out some of its 777 for Pacific expansion in lieu of 757's with Premium Service configuration for Atlantic?
Lufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 32
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4968 times:
Quoting Kahala777 (Thread starter): In addition wouldnt United Airlines offering Premium Service in the JFK-LHR market, be a step above what American Airlines offers for passengers in the First, Business and Economy cabin?
UA 777s have first suites and C+ on European routes. Much better than any domestic p.s.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4917 times:
I mentioned this once in another thread a while ago and many here jumped all over me saying that UA would be crazy to convert the JFK-LHR route to PS757 service.
While UA is small player in terms of seats and frequency on the JFK-LHR route, UA does have its following and its corportate accounts to take care of. UA's focus on JFK-LHR is similiar to its role on the transcons - lots of premium passengers that fly often and are loyal to UA. I think UA would do well with three or four PS757 flights per day between JFK and LHR (if slots at LHR would allow) including a daylight service on the eastbound leg and an evening departure on the westbound leg.....UA would probably make its loyal frequent flyers very happy by offering more departures per day. It could just work, and a side-benefit would be that UA would also solve some of its widebody aircraft problems. UA could offer PS-connections for some pax travelling between SFO/LAX and London.
The real question is - does the economics of the low-density premium service configured 757 work in real life? Does UA actually make money on flights operated with the PS757? I do not know the answer to that - does UA keep all of the premium seats filled up on the transcon flights, and, of course, at what prices? SO much depends on the basic business model - but if UA is making money on the transcon PS757 services (and that is the big IF), I think that JFK-London would be a natural followup for this type of service.
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 27645 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4913 times:
Two immediate operational problems without considering any marketing factors.
1-All the currently assigned p.s. aircraft are non ETOPS B757s. UA smallish(16) B757 ETOPS fleet are currently well tasked with lots of Hawaii flying.
2-The majority of UAs B757 fleet is barred as part of lease/insurance covenants from leaving the United States.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Kahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4910 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5): 2-The majority of UAs B757 fleet is barred as part of lease/insurance covenants from leaving the United States
Yeah, that can be a problem
Back in 1998, America West wanted to operate larger aircraft to Mexico City, when LAS-MEX was going out full. Problem was that the leaser did not allow the aircraft to leave the borders of the United States.
LHRCS From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4858 times:
Dont really see this happening at any time.
But would love to see another flight on this route, pref a very early morning dept say about 07:30 dept LHR to avrl JFK aprox 10:30. Just think you could then realistically do a day trip to NYC as you could return on the 21:30 dept (ua904) to arv LHR 09:25 and still do a days work.
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 10485 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4857 times:
If UA had not sold off its unused slots at LHR, it would have been interesting to see if they could have made the 757 work across the Atlantic. It could have been similar to the privatair flights operating on behalf of LH and Swiss. UA could serve smaller east coast destinations to LHR nonstop with 757s in a premium configuration. But in reality a normal international 777 is nicer than a PS 757. The first suites definitely beat the lie flat first class seats on PS.
The down side with having 757s go across the Atlantic for UA is that almost every decently sized airport in the east has a hub operation by some airline and service to Gatwick. With Bermuda II, UA would be forced to serve Gatwick, which would defeat the purpose. Nonetheless, it would have been an interesting move if UA started serving LHR from PIT, BDL, PVD, MHT, etc. But I still doubt that it would have worked since operating into LHR is very expensive and there may not be enough premium traffic to warrant this service.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
LACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4188 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4813 times:
How are they doing with their "PS" transcon legs LAX/SFO-JFK-LAX/SFO?
I hope it is working out for them. They do have a very loyal following and my Mom takes it frequently. From what I understand, their inflight product is far superior compared to AA's, and what DL did have and no longer does.
Lee From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4770 times:
I wouldnt really see the point of it. The US domestic flight have no real premium service so p.s. made a change. If you want premium to NY you can fly BA, they have something like 5 flights a day. You cant get much more premium than BA first.
PlaneSmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 1381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4608 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5): 2-The majority of UAs B757 fleet is barred as part of lease/insurance covenants from leaving the United States.
Insurance can be an issue heading to some destinations, but not London.
If the aircraft have appropriate equipment / apporvals for over-water flying, changing insurance and leases should be a formality.
Given the sweetheart deals virtually all financiers are currently willingly / unwillingly providing to US-based airlines, making the necessary changes shouldn't be a problem. In 2005, anything that improves the financial viability of a customer is not a problem.
Within the next 5-10 years, 757 sized aircraft will be priced out of LHR, as airlines will be able to make more money in the short-term selling slots to A38 operators, than using for their own flights.
Jamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1062 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4426 times:
So refreshing to hear someone compliment United's service. It is a good topic for discussion..P.S. Service across the pond. I would like to see P.S. Service expanded to IAD-LAX/SFO and perhaps BOS-LAX/SFO.
Kahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4407 times:
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 19): NW still offers complimentary alcohol drinks and new state of the art A330's across the pond
And those horrible blue nightmare seats on the DC-10 out of MSP?
What about the nightmare blue seats that are on every aircraft type except for the A330?
You are also forgetting a very important thing. Northwest Airlines, unlike American, Delta, Continental, America West, United, US Airways, Alaska, ATA, and Omni does not offer Inflight IFE on any domestic segment, with the excpetion of Hawaii!
Luv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12337 posts, RR: 45
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4399 times:
Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 20): You are also forgetting a very important thing. Northwest Airlines, unlike American, Delta, Continental, America West, United, US Airways, Alaska, ATA, and Omni does not offer Inflight IFE on any domestic segment, with the excpetion of Hawaii!
And this is relevant in a talk about flights to Europe because why?
Christao17 From Thailand, joined Apr 2005, 971 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4330 times:
It is an interesting idea. What might end up being more feasible would be to just upgrade the current international fleeet (after exiting BK of course). Continue to fly JFK-LHR with the 777 but upgrade business to be the same lie-flat product that is in the PS First cabin and freshen up the UA First Suite a bit. Add AVOD in economy and I think it would make UA much more competitive without decreasing the number of seats.
Keeping the "civil" in civil aviation...
: This was the plan pre 9-11-01 This was the plan for the 747-400 pre 9-11-01 Aloha, Kahala777
: A 7th LAX-JFK flight was recently introduced. Overall yields have improved in all classes. With much smaller economy product there is less pressure t
: An interesting fact: When United reconfigured the 757 to PS, they also made them over-water equipped. Surely United didn't spend the extra time and mo
: ha? None of the p.s. aircraft are overwater equipped. UA operates 4 different B757 fleets. 56 Domestic MQ nose number 54xx Non overwater standard con
: I could be wrong, but I'm almost certain the 57p is overwater. Not sure about the ratings and ETOPS; however, the plane is equipped with life vests,
: Yes on vest, no on raft. Speaking of over water equipped, please stand by for TED.. A sub fleet will be O/W equipped starting the fall..
: To compare the 757ps plane with the 777 used for JFK-LHR (borrowing information from Seat Guru): First: 777 - United First Suite 78.0" pitch 21.5" wid
: Their F-class is suites and C class is the same as UA Actually, UA lost a massive amount of premium transcon traffic, particularly out of LAX, to AA
: What? I guess you have not flown P.S., now have you? By who people in Michigan, and Minnesota? Really? That statement needs some serious backing up!
: Kahala, I love the idea!!! In this economy,many airlines are cheapining it up and offering rock bottom fares. I choose to fly CO a lot because they ch
: You mean actually offer something that every other airline does not?? Yes, I think that United Airlines has a great idea with Premium Service. If Uni
: There are two start-ups being proposed to offer the same product LON-NYC. One is EON and the other FirstAir. EON proposed flying STN-JFK with a 757 ou
: Well, there are many people who obviously think AA's service isn't that bad, as AA is flying record numbers of people, experiencing record load facto
: Isnt it more like Eos, Max Jet, and First Air? Something to that effect! Eos, using a 752 ex JFK to STN http://www.eosairlines.com/ Max Jet, using a
: In most cases they will chose Song, or United Airlines. Southwest Airlines, and Jet Blue, are no longer the lowest rates out there. A common myth has
: Yeah, Greyhound with Wings! Funny, is that why United Airlines Premium Service, is doing so well? Funny, is that why PrivatAir, is doing so well? Fun
: Kahala, We have already discussed this idea, in the thought process of what to do if the 763s were pulled down and repo'd by the banks. The 757s with
: BAW716: Welcome to my Respected User list. It is nice to see another aviation enthusiast who thinks outside of the typical, "it cant be done" box! Alo
: Not always, but much of the time. And, almost always, when WN or B6 are not the lowest fares in the market, and a legacy are, the legacy is pricing t
: MCO-LAX exists, by United Airlines mainline due to United Airlines having very, very good money making contracts with Universal, and Disney. In all h
: Exactly my point, and all the more proof that if UA didn't have the lucrative Disney contract, their MCO-LAX route probably would not exist or would
: It would seem that Kahala and Commavia have entered into an interesting debate. It has gone off into a different topic that speaks to more of airline
: aww I guess the poor non-revs will have less chance when most of Y class dissappears
: FYI: Airlines do not exist to offer Non-Rev benefits. Aloha, Kahala777
: While I agree with you that many customers would be persuaded to book away from WN towards UA if the price point was only $30 higher per ticket than
: You are forgetting some very key factors. United Airlines flys to actual cities as is the case with New York, San Francisco, Boston, Miami, and Washi
: That's right, and that's great, but for the fact that the number of people travelling on business has been declining since 1999 and is not rebounding
: Baw716 makes some fantastic points. As with any industry that becomes commoditized, there are generally only two ways to be successful: The first is
: Actually, Southern California was home to Disney WAY before that. It is Disneyland that was built in 1955 Nope, by business travelers across the Paci
: Sure it is, with lie-flat beds and an unbeatable IFE system. Get real, and the new NW WBC meal offerings, as was said above, Northwest has been rated
: The statement I made was tongue and cheek to the fact that Delta, Conitnental, US Airways,and Northwest Airlines have lost demand unlike United and A
: Let's see: You want UA to compete on JFK-LHR with a higher-CASM product that is inferior to most existing LHR premium offerings. Yup, sounds like a wi
: Like a little birdie named Earl said to me, it would be the Indy Air of Bermuda II