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BMI 757 MAN-IAD - Looks Like Its Doing Well  
User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5729 times:

With BMI operating MAN-IAD with a 752, the flights now seem regularly full - loads of about 80-90%+ for most days in June.
I've been monitoring the loads for two weeks now, and C is regularly full and economy also.
I know full planes don't always mean $$$, but it seems the 752 is a much better suited aircraft than the A332 for this route.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6808 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5681 times:

Nice to hear that the 752 didn't kill the route after the predictions of doom. Is it the nice Icelandic cabin crew who are making the difference or is it a BMI crew? What was the load on the 332 when it was doing it?


wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5660 times:

There was a lot of drama here at a.net concerning BMI operating IAD-MAN with the 752, but in the real world the 752 is probably the right sized aircraft for the route. And, the average passenger probably does not care (or even notice) that the flight is being operated by a smaller aircraft than previously was the case.....if the flight is pleasant, arrives safely, and the pax find the level of inflight service acceptable, they are generally satisfied.

I hope that BMI can maintain service on the IAD-MAN route - this sounds like good news.


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5636 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
I hope that BMI can maintain service on the IAD-MAN route

From a business standpoint, is it financially fit to keep contracting out the operation of a single aircraft type, for only one daily service?


Aloha,

Kahala777


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5604 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):

From a business standpoint, is it financially fit to keep contracting out the operation of a single aircraft type, for only one daily service?


Aloha,

Kahala777

You, of course, raise a very good point, operating this flight with the leased in 757 is not a long term solution. However, the A332 is simply too big for IAD-MAN on a year round basis.....and, in any case, BMI seems to have other plans for the A332s at Heathrow.

Two issues: First, its hard to predict what BMI will do, there business planning has been very difficult to understand in recent years. Second, its amazing that the 752 found a new niche as a transatlantic airliner for "secondary routes" just as Boeing closed down production of the type. More and more, there seems to be a need for a 175 seat medium to long range aircraft, the A332 (and possibly the 787-8 and A358) all seem to be too big for certain routes, I wonder if Boeing will consider a smaller version of the 787, say the 787-7?


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25405 posts, RR: 86
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5569 times:
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Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
I wonder if Boeing will consider a smaller version of the 787, say the 787-7?

Or maybe Airbus will consider a longer range variant on the A321.  Smile

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5542 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):

Or maybe Airbus will consider a longer range variant on the A321.

cheers

mariner

My understanding is that the A321-200 is pretty much maxxed out - the aircraft would require significant upgrades and re-design to further increase range or performance. Maybe a long range variant will be included in the A32X-NG family, it could be surprisingly popular?!


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5519 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
Two issues: First, its hard to predict what BMI will do, there business planning has been very difficult to understand in recent years. Second, its amazing that the 752 found a new niche as a transatlantic airliner for "secondary routes" just as Boeing closed down production of the type. More and more, there seems to be a need for a 175 seat medium to long range aircraft, the A332 (and possibly the 787-8 and A358) all seem to be too big for certain routes, I wonder if Boeing will consider a smaller version of the 787, say the 787-7?

Just because the 752 is being used profitably on these routes, it doesn't mean that airlines would rush out and buy them. It is old technology after all that hasn't been updated. And the 752 would surely reduce the chances of a 739ER being brought to market.

And a 787-7 would end up being in the same size class as a 762 and 753, not the 752. And it would be heavy for such short routes. What might make more sense is a 787-2 for thinner transatlantic routes as a replacement for 762s and A310s. But it would still be a lot larger than the 752.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25405 posts, RR: 86
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5516 times:
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Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 6):
Maybe a long range variant will be included in the A32X-NG family, it could be surprisingly popular?!

"...surprisingly popular"?

Would that be surprising?

I doubt Contintental would look at it, for their European routes, given their manufacturer bias, but I'd guess a fair few others might.

As I understand it, the porblem for JetBlue is that they cannot be guaranteed transcon capability with the A321. But their loads would surely justify the capacity.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5440 times:

Got a chance to finally see her yesterday at Manchster.

Strange livery, but looked full fromwhat i could see standing in the viewing deck at Manchester


User currently offlineN77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5328 times:

Quoting Concorde001 (Thread starter):
With BMI operating MAN-IAD with a 752, the flights now seem regularly full - loads of about 80-90%+ for most days in June.
I've been monitoring the loads for two weeks now, and C is regularly full and economy also.
I know full planes don't always mean $$$, but it seems the 752 is a much better suited aircraft than the A332 for this route.

All they did was find a better capacity match for the market. The load never went away; it just found a smaller plane to make profit with. The J-class traffic propping up this route won't go away just because the plane got smaller. Time is money, and there still was a need for a nonstop.


User currently offlineC172 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5189 times:

True, it does seem that there is a hole in the market. The value of the 757 lay in its versatility, flying transatlantic one day and short hauls the next. With the 757 going away and the 767 shortly after, what will fill this gap? A330/787 is too heavy. 739 may or may not have the range. A321 is a no.

User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1922 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5178 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):
Or maybe Airbus will consider a longer range variant on the A321.

Airbus is indeed looking at the range capabilities of the A321 while developing the next generation. They see the potential the B757 has and a range sufficient A321NG can do very well for smaller airlines.

However, rumors are there that Airbus is indeed developing a shorter range, less pax variant of the A350, somewhat like a A310 with A350 technology. It's said that this is the reason the official launch has been delayed untill September so that they can launch the whole package.

Ah well, let's just wait and see what the boys and girls of Airbus R&D are coming up with in the next few years.

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineFlybmi330 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5148 times:

The cabin crew are bmi crew, the flight crew are Icelandair

User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8561 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5093 times:
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As stated above, depsite the route now being a 752, this is the right sized aircraft for this route. The 'average' passenger won't have a clue what a 752 is so won't worry about looking at other flights/connections.

The only people likely to really know, are us folks here on a.net.

Good to see the loads are health, hopefully it's making money too!



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineAdamTStarFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

Glad the 752 to is doing well for bmi, lets hope they don't make any rash decisions and spoil it.
Has anyone one on a.net flown on this route yet with the 752, it would be interesting to here what the inflight product is like compared with what it was on the A332?
I flew out to Dulles on the 332 in march and although the economy class was full, the load in business was well below half, and im heading back to the states later this summer, but have decided to route through ORD with bmi, as i didn't want to be on a 752 across the Atlantic.
As many people have said, your average customer probably would not notice, but people on here would.

Adam


User currently offlineSkymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
There was a lot of drama here at a.net concerning BMI operating IAD-MAN with the 752, but in the real world the 752 is probably the right sized aircraft for the route. And, the average passenger probably does not care (or even notice) that the flight is being operated by a smaller aircraft than previously was the case.....if the flight is pleasant, arrives safely, and the pax find the level of inflight service acceptable, they are generally satisfied

Well Tuesday will see my third trip across the Atlantic since the 757 was put into service. Had the A330 been on the route, all three trips would have been on BMI. As it is, none are on BMI, nor will any be in future whilst that 757 is on the route. Shame, but that's BMI's loss, not mine.

ANdy


User currently offlineFlybmi330 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4200 times:

Skymonster,
bmi doesn't operate IAD-MAN or MAN-IAD on a tuesday anyways!


User currently offlineAn225 From Israel, joined May 2005, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3613 times:

Quoting Concorde001 (Thread starter):
I've been monitoring the loads for two weeks now, and C is regularly full and economy also.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but...  Confused
How can someone do that (if he is not in the airline industry)?


User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3523 times:

Quoting An225 (Reply 18):
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but...
How can someone do that (if he is not in the airline industry)?

Who said I wasn't in the airline industry?!
But, if you don't have access to the Amadeus system or equivalent, you can try some websites which tell you (I think)!


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2983 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3440 times:

Sorry to burst some folks' bubble, but from my perspective, the 757 spells the end of the route.

Without freight, the route is a dodo - without the A330, there's insufficient freight capacity.

Plus, did anyone realise before the route was subbed out that United cannot code share on the route any longer until bi-laterals between Iceland and the US are modified ?

Another blunder at what was my favourite place of work.

Shamu



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7392 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3422 times:
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Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 20):
United cannot code share on the route any longer until bi-laterals between Iceland and the US are modified

UA4854 from IAD is expected at 0605 - seems that those regulatory issues have been resolved!

David


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3429 times:

I was told that the BMI Lhr-Bom services were going at over 90% capacity, so I guess shifting the A332 to the India service was a good idea. Still the BMI A332s at Dulles will be missed.

User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3273 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
There was a lot of drama here at a.net concerning BMI operating IAD-MAN with the 752, but in the real world the 752 is probably the right sized aircraft for the route

The 'drama' you refer to wasn't so much about the substitute aircraft, or the type, but about the disregard BMI have shown their loyal MAN customer base.

I have no doubt that should BMI get permission to fly further longhaul routes ex LHR, wherever they may be too, that they will siphon the aircraft away from MAN. And should they do so, then good riddance ...

7LBAC111



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7211 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3232 times:

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 20):
but from my perspective, the 757 spells the end of the route.

Couldnt agree more. BD had an opportunity to acquire a 332 this summer, but chose a 752 as their 4th aircraft.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 22):
I was told that the BMI Lhr-Bom services were going at over 90% capacity, so I guess shifting the A332 to the India service was a good idea.

Apart from the fact that the aircraft sits on the ground here at Heathrow for three days a week - completely killing any chance of profitability on the route, as they havent got their act together in flying to Saudi

Yields on BOM have collapsed since the onset of additional capacity. Early 2006 will see a second daily Jet and BA flight to BOM, alongside a increased BD and VS frequencies. BD is the weakest link here.

BD have only leased the 732 for a season - once winter comes, the route is dead, unless its kept alive by positioning a 332 to MAN x3 weekly.

Quoting Concorde001 (Thread starter):
C is regularly full.

With 10 business seats, Full = 10 passengers (2 rows on a A319). Looking at whats still available for sale (and taking the assumption that BD wont oversell a 10 seater cabin by more than 1??), C loads over the next week are as follows:

Tue - No service
Wed - 5
Thu - 8
Fri - 3
Sat - 3
Sun - 5
Mon - 5

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 23):
the disregard BMI have shown their loyal MAN customer base

I find it amazing that the more BD at heathrow loses money the more BD invest in the market. A combined A319LR / 332 fleet is perfect for growing at Manchester. BD should sell up at heathrow, and use the slot revenue to invest in new fleet and grow ex MAN - where they have no serious hubbed competition, and a much easier regulatory environment.

Looks like BMed are going to steal BD's chances here, by planning three MAN based aircraft to operate into 'near' asia.



The world is really getting smaller these days
25 7LBAC111 : Really? What are BMed planning ex MAN? 7LBAC111
26 Col : How many PAX did they turn away? From my understanding their loads with the 332 were pretty good this time of year, were when I used them. With little
27 Post contains images BestWestern : Rumours of Bmed replicating some of the BA mainline 'medium haul' Heathrow routes ex Manchester (SVO, TLV, LED, CAI) using narrow-body A320's. Nearer
28 Post contains images BMIFlyer : Quick question... Why didn't bmi approach UA and ask them to place a B767 on the MAN-IAD route? Surely it could have been flown with a UA flightcrew a
29 BestWestern : If the route was viable, BD wouldnt have hacked it back to a 757, and down to a twice weekly winter schedule! The last thing UA need is another loss
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