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Paris 2005- Reversal Of Fortunes...  
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7644 times:

Another good article from the Seattle Times. The title is their's...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ogy/2002331062_parispreview12.html

Highlights:

Early 2007- 737-900X will be ready

Pending 777LRF deals- Emirates, Atlas Air, Southern Air, World, Etihad

A350: Aboulifia believes that Airbus will do it right...

Before anyone accuses the Seattle Times of being a Boeing partisan, see the earlier thread I started about Boeing in China. This same newspaper took a pretty scathing look at their callousness and screws ups. They also wrote a follow-up how Airbus made all the right moves in China in contrast to Boeing.

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7583 times:

Thanks for sharing the link to Seattletimes -interesting write-up. They seem to have writing staff that knows about aircraft.Maybe we could send some european journalists to Seattle to get some teachings in aeronautics....
Usually articles in newspapers here are superficial and full of errors...( some exeptions though with the newspaper of Toulouse - at least they know the differnces between different Airbus-families and don't show the wrong pictures related to text talking about a different airplane....



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineAirbusDriver From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 255 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7430 times:

Seem pretty bias if you ask me.
Wait and see how many ordes A get's, I suspect a lots since they haven't announce many order in the last 3 or 4 month.


User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7268 times:

Quoting AirbusDriver (Reply 2):
Wait and see how many ordes A get's, I suspect a lots since they haven't announce many order in the last 3 or 4 month.

They haven't announced many orders because they haven't gotten many orders. Why do you suspect that they'll get lots? ...and the more important question, for which airframe?



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7428 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7172 times:

The Paris Air Show has not opened its doors yet !

Be patient to wait the end of next week for the conclusion.


User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 859 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7134 times:

I'm looking for more more 787 orders but not Japanese, Chinese or US...


Never trust the obvious
User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 859 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7109 times:

I think the word "Revearsal" is wrong : the A vs B market share is misleading. Airbus deliveries were stable. It was Boeing going down and now they may recover. US and Japanese markets are improving. It would be surprising if they don't get more than 50% market shares of new orders in the coming years.

Ultimately Boeing will always dominate Airbus as Europe as a world power is declining rapidly.



Never trust the obvious
User currently offlineMD80Nut From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 979 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7013 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 4):
The Paris Air Show has not opened its doors yet !

Be patient to wait the end of next week for the conclusion.

Exactly. Just because Boeing has enjoyed some success lately doesn't mean all of a sudden Airbus doesn't know what it's doing. I seem to recall as recently as 4 or 5 months ago a lot of people were wondering if Boeing could even compete!

Let's wait and see how the show goes.

Cheers, Ralph



Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3017 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6952 times:

Quoting AirbusDriver (Reply 2):
Seem pretty bias if you ask me.

The Seattle paper has a history of being very hard on Boeing, so if they are saying good things, it probably has some merit.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6920 times:

Quoting Aither (Reply 6):
Europe as a world power is declining rapidly

Just curious as to why you say this comment? Is this driven by France's no vote to let other countries in to the EU? Or is it something else. Europe will always have a stong position as a economic power, I wouldn't call it a world power.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6886 times:

AirbusDriver,

The article even says that Boeing probably will not have any big blockbuster announcments while Airbus likely will have the limelight with big orders and the A380.

Actually I think the article is pretty disinterested and rather it is you that harbors a bias towards Airbus (and some contempt for Boeing) which you have made clear through a number of posts.

[Edited 2005-06-13 01:17:05]

User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 728 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6860 times:

Quoting N79969 (Reply 10):
Actually I think the article is pretty disinterested and rather it is you that harbors a bias towards Airbus which you have made clear through a number of posts.

Agreed.

The article is not biased, for example if mentions Aaron Gelman says he thinks Airbus will never make money on the A380 (a fate that is entirely possible), then immediately says he has consulted for Boeing and participated in the trade dispute - that's fair and balanced reporting for real (unlike the organization that trademarked that slogan).

Quoting AirbusDriver (Reply 2):
Wait and see how many orders A get's

I agree, we all know their airshow history - there could be a lot, or not many - we'll see.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7565 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6825 times:

Quoting MD80Nut (Reply 7):
Exactly. Just because Boeing has enjoyed some success lately doesn't mean all of a sudden Airbus doesn't know what it's doing. I seem to recall as recently as 4 or 5 months ago a lot of people were wondering if Boeing could even compete!

Well they delayed the A380 delivery, and now they will no longer announce orders at the Paris Air Show nor will they begin the A350 program, looks as if Airbus is really doing the right thing.

Though, I find it rather amusing that Airbus announces all its orders at once, to make it sound bigger and better.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineMD80Nut From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 979 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6796 times:

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):
Well they delayed the A380 delivery

I think the A380 is the most pressing issue for Airbus. They need to get it right. Too much already invested in it.

Cheers, Ralph



Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 859 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6732 times:

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 9):
Just curious as to why you say this comment? Is this driven by France's no vote to let other countries in to the EU? Or is it something else. Europe will always have a stong position as a economic power, I wouldn't call it a world power.

Well, from an economic standpoint Europe is a worldpower. Everybody talk about China etc. but if i well remember the budget of China is just above the Italian one...

About the declin, I would say it's in people mind. We're negative. We oppose every reform because we know they are a threat to our social system. It's a deadlock for us.

The US can still attract engineers, researchers etc. and compensate by being more innovative.



Never trust the obvious
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11979 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6323 times:

Quoting Aither (Reply 14):
Well, from an economic standpoint Europe is a worldpower. Everybody talk about China etc. but if i well remember the budget of China is just above the Italian one...

But, compare the growth of the Chinese economy (astranomical, if perhaps unsustainable) to that of the Italian economy (generally stagnant, like just about all of continental Europe).

Quoting Aither (Reply 14):
About the declin, I would say it's in people mind. We're negative. We oppose every reform because we know they are a threat to our social system. It's a deadlock for us.

The US can still attract engineers, researchers etc. and compensate by being more innovative.

This is, IMO, the biggest reason why the Eurozone is slowly loosing its economic power and influence on the global stage to China, India and America. The very reforms that would make Europe -- and European economies and industries (like airlines) -- more competitive, are opposed because they definitely would, as you said, upset the delicate quasi-socialist balance that Europe has nurtured over the last 60 years. Reform is possible in Europe -- witness the economic growth of the last 20 years in Britain and Ireland -- but with it comes hard work, acceptance of change, and much more reform-oriented politicians and publics.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21588 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6132 times:

It's protectionism vs. globalism. Both seem to favor the economic new kid on the block, honestly.

As a legacy economic power, Protectionism makes you hard to deal with and people turn elsewhere. Globalism takes all your jobs away.

China is almost growing too fast to sustain, and a free floating currency would show that. But they also have protectionist principles that hamper growth. If you can't turn a profit in China because they try to control too much of your business or force you to use too many of their contractors, it makes it an explosive growth market with a tenuous upside.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21588 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6059 times:

Just because it's not a positive article re: A doesn't make it biased. It really seems like a good summary of the events of the last year or so. If the reality isn't all roses, that is not the fault of the Seattle Times.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6056 times:

Commavia-- but with it comes hard work, acceptance of change,

Looka, just going by huge numbers of contributions from (ostensibly) American posters around here, one might think that the U.S. of A. itself is basically on the brink of hate-filled and ignorance-driven self-destruction  Embarrassment

As for Europe it's an amazingly ambitious thing that they're trying out right about now. For anyone --least of all folks around here perhaps with sad ADD issues and whatever else-- to not give them at least a few decades to get their global village all set up better is really being majorly short-sighted. Especially since America herself is of course necessarily going to undergo the very same kind of transition, in any event.


As for Airbus and Boeing and the Seattle Times and all the rest of it I think most folks know what to expect from here on in. Namely that nobody in the usual gang of suspects is going to fade anytime soon -- although market shares globally might ebb and flow a bit, depending upon what kind of technical or political turn happens this year or that.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5871 times:

I have a feeling that Airbus will kick this year into gear with some very nice orders - in all ranges. I look for some new customers for the 380 (and maybe a surprise or two) as well as a stack of orders for the 32X range. The 350 might not top 100 orders, but they should be strong.

My thinking is that Airbus has been selling, but keeping it quiet for the Paris Show, which would have been painful every time Boeing announced an order. the year isn't half over and I would give Airbus credit for being able to make things happen over the next 12 months. They have to get the 380 on track for deliveries and finish working out the design of the 350, but that's part of the job.


User currently offlineSparkingWave From South Korea, joined Jun 2005, 675 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5834 times:

The Seattle Time article is a good example of spin (out-of) control. I don't know if agree with the melodramatic tinges of Airbus and Boeing pitted against each other in a gladiator style combat.

All airshows should just prohibit aircraft makers and airlines from announcing orders of any kind. The Paris Airshow should set an example of good sportsmanship and become an event where people can come to appreciate and enjoy the latest advances in aircraft technology, maintenance, supply, and airline services, etc. Competitive differences should be set aside for a moment to celebrate the fact that aircraft are successfully made at all; and that we are fortunate enough to live in an age where we can fly in them.

That's my two Euro  twocents  cents.

SparkingWave



Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
User currently offlineLonghaulheavy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 402 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5296 times:

700 orders for the 787? Thank goodness Boeing is finally starting to blow some smoke like Airbus' Leahy. It makes things interesting around here.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21588 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5128 times:

Quoting Mark_D. (Reply 18):
As for Europe it's an amazingly ambitious thing that they're trying out right about now. For anyone --least of all folks around here perhaps with sad ADD issues and whatever else-- to not give them at least a few decades to get their global village all set up better is really being majorly short-sighted. Especially since America herself is of course necessarily going to undergo the very same kind of transition, in any event.

it's not as if a unified europe is a new concept. it's been attempted in one form or another for the last 2000 years or so.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDouwd20 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5081 times:

The WSJ has a story for those who can access it....

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1...00.html?mod=home%5Fpage%5Fone%5Fus

Golden Handcuffs With Italy in the Doldrums,Many Point Fingers at the Euro

Strong Currency Hurts Exports,Causing Some to Want Out; Another Blow to the EU


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8041 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4656 times:

I think Aribus better correct the issues with the A380-800 soon or we could see QF, SQ and VS all lining up to buy the 747 Advanced pretty soon. And EK is getting antsy to the point they might just seriously look at a very large-scale 777-300ER buy because Airbus could end up taking too long to resolve the problems with the A388.

25 Dhefty : RayChuang, thanks for your insight. I started a thread recently that asked "Who will be the first to cancel an A380 order". Needless to say, I got fl
26 MidnightMike : I do not think that you will see any airline cancel the A380, the airlines will wait for the A380 and Airbus will make sure that the customers are wel
27 Dhefty : In view of the fact that launch customers bought the A380 for $45 - $65 million less than the cost of production, one might be tempted to believe tha
28 PlaneSmart : An airline will inevitably cancel an order, as most are more akin to options. Some will be cancelled in preference for future, larger variants, and/o
29 USAF336TFS : Judging from some of your more interesting posts, you may be among the very few who feel this way abut your neighbor to the south. I can assure you,
30 DAYflyer : The newspaper correctly guessed a surprise Qautar order for the A-350. It will be interesting to see what happens the remainder of the week.
31 Scott0305 : Pitty their headline picture isn't the latest incarnation of the 787. The design in that picture wasn't even still-born.
32 Dhefty : PlaneSmart, there are a number of reasons why it does have commonality, i.e.- ability to land anywhere a B747-400 can land, similar cockpit, pilot tr
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