KL911 From Netherlands, joined Jul 2003, 5500 posts, RR: 16 Posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9965 times:
Like the topic said, Why are there no, or almost no railway/subway connections between major US cities and their airports?
Europe and Asia have it, why not the US? It's so much faster, cheaper, cleaner then car traffic. I realize the US has not much of a railway system like we know it here, but center to airport lines must be possible.
Newark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9943 times:
In the New York area, there is a rail connection to JFK, via train and Airtrain, and at EWR, Amtrak and NjTransit run to a EWR station, where they can pick up the EWR Airtrain. I'm not sure about other areas, though.
KL911 From Netherlands, joined Jul 2003, 5500 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9910 times:
Ok, didn't know that, but is it faster and more efficient then cars as it is in Europe? That's the only thing that makes it attractive..
Example, when I have cleared customs at AMS, I go down to the trainsstation in the terminal, and 19 min later I'm in the center of town. I can promise you that no one can even find his car in 19 minutes at those BIG carparks...
( And then being to tired to drive, many trafficjams etc etc..)
PA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2083 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9876 times:
At peak hours almost all are more efficient than driving, simply because traffic is so bad. At off peak hours, I can't speak for the other cities, but it is faster to drive between SFO and downtown San Francisco because BART takes a very circuitous route, and stops at ever station.
DeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 9027 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9869 times:
In Boston, it takes about 10 minutes to get from Government Center to the airport, which is comparable with a taxi. With a taxi, you get dropped off at your terminal though, while the subway station requires a shuttle bus to the terminal.
Washington, from the White House area, it's about equal. 15 minutes on a Metro train, 15 minutes in a cab.
New York takes about 30 minutes from Penn Station, which isn't all too bad. Drive can take 30 minutes or longer, depending on traffic.
San Francisco takes about 30 minutes on BART, I'd assume it's about a 15-20 minute drive on the 101, depending on traffic.
LAX also has a train line (the green line I think), that is similiar to BOS' setup.
Texan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4324 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9847 times:
Dallas and Denver both have links to their airports planned but not yet completed (although it is possible to take the TRE from Downtown Dallas to DFW Centreport, then take a shuttle bus from there to the airport). Houston also has a link in the planning stages, but it is probably a decade or more away from becoming a reality. While the Northeast US often uses the benefits of public transportation, it just has not yet caught on in the majority of the States. Once the line to DAL opens up in a few years, I plan to use it frequently assuming I'm still in Dallas. Does Portland's light rail go to PDX yet?
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9839 times:
European cities and countries have invested far more in public transit infrastructure than their counterparts in the USA - public tranportation, especially train service, is much better and more comprehensive in Europe than it is in the US. These are not opinions, they are facts. The US is much more automobile oriented, especially outside of the Northeast.
Train links to airports never developed until recently even in cities with commuter railroad systems or subways, that is beginning to change, but even in cities with rail connections to the airport, passengers do not use them as frequently as they do in Europe. The construction of pax rail lines into airports is expensive and it does not get much support from citizens or politicians.
I guess its partly a cultural thing and its partly the lack of good quality rail service in the US.
Usairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9822 times:
PHL also has a connection with commuter rail.
The one thing i think you are missing is the fact that the train system in the US is completely different than it is in Europe. Amtrak's northeast corridor(DC-Philly-NYC-Boston) is somewhat similar to that of Europe but even that corridor is lagging in some respects when compared to Europe. The trains aren't always as efficient as they could be or as the should be.
IADBGO From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9814 times:
Some airports in the US do have connections with rail. BWI actually has a couple. MARC, Amtrak and light rail all have connections with BWI. Metro links with DCA. Now IAD does not currently have a rail connection but they are giong to start construction on that in the next year or so. The main obstacle has been funding. Because of the way federal transportation dollars are distributed in the US it is a real fight to get stuff done that goes through multiple juristictions. Federal, state and local areas all have to jump through hoops to get anything built.
Ssides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9808 times:
The primary reason is because US cities are almost invariably more spread out and less densely populated -- rendering rail links less popular and, relatively speaing, too expensive, to be effective.
While most major US cities (New York, Boston, Washington, Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Francisco, etc.) have some kind of rail transit, it's hit or miss. In many cases, these rail systems only reach a small fraction of the population. For example, I live in Dallas, but like most people here I'm nowhere close to a DART rail station. Here, it would be prohibitively expensive to build a rail system that most citizens could feasibly use.
Add that to the fact that, like many other cities, our (larger) airport is a considerable distance from the city center. Extending rail directly to DFW would be very expensive, and even then would not be useful to those people who live far from a rail link. We currently have rail service to DFW on the Trinity Railway Express, but it is very burdensome, particularly with luggage: You have to take DART to downtown Dallas, change to the TRE, disembark at DFW station, take a shuttle bus to the rental car center, then take the rental car shuttle to the terminal. In July, when it's 110 degrees, I'd rather just drive my air-conditioned vehicle straight to the terminal -- even if it takes me an extra 10-15 minutes.
Cairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9802 times:
ATL and PHL have a rail link as well, so it looks like about 10 or so US airports have it.
In general, public transport in the US is not as developed or perceived as important as in Europe. People in America are used to driving their car everywhere, even as they get fat and waste gas to do it.
What is really bad are airports like DFW and IAH, where you are really out in the middle of nowhere and your choices are an expensive cab ride, rent a car, or take a hodge-podge system of buses and some trains to get you into the city center. If you drive your own car you have to pay expensive parking rates.
I agree, the trains-to-the-airport which are common everywhere in the world are very convenient, I wish we had more of them in America.
BoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1610 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9785 times:
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 6): In Boston, it takes about 10 minutes to get from Government Center to the airport, which is comparable with a taxi. With a taxi, you get dropped off at your terminal though, while the subway station requires a shuttle bus to the terminal.
Well, you have the blue line but just recently they opened the Silver Line, which is natural gas powered transit bus subway service to Logan and circles around all the terminals...
BOSSAN From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9734 times:
Many US airports have some form of rail transit link to the airport, either within the terminal or accessible by shuttle.
Atlanta ATL: MARTA North-South line heavy rail
Baltimore BWI: MTA Blue Line light rail, in terminal; Amtrak Northeast Corridor line with bus shuttle
Boston BOS: MBTA Blue Line heavy rail with bus shuttle
Cleveland CLE: RTA Red Line heavy rail in terminal
Chicago ORD: CTA Blue Line heavy rail in parking garage
Chicago MDW: CTA Orange Line heavy rail in parking garage
Los Angeles LAX: MTA Green Line light rail with bus shuttle (transfer to Blue Line for downtown)
Fort Lauderdale FLL: Tri-Rail commuter rail with bus shuttle
Minneapolis MSP: Hiawatha light rail in parking garage
Miami MIA: Tri-Rail commuter rail with bus shuttle (transfer to Metrorail for downtown)
New York EWR: Amtrak Northeast Corridor line with monorail shuttle
New York JFK: LIRR commuter rail and several heavy rail lines with light rail shuttle
Philadelphia PHL: SEPTA commuter rail adjacent to terminal
Portland PDX: MAX light rail in terminal
San Francisco SFO: BART heavy rail in terminal
St Louis STL: MetroLink light rail adjacent to terminal
Washington DCA: WMATA Blue/Yellow Line heavy rail adjacent to terminal
These rail links vary widely in frequency, service, and time to the central business district. Many close-in airports like San Diego SAN and New York LGA have convenient bus links to downtown and/or rail.
That said, the majority of passengers at all of these airports arrive by private transportation -- parking at the airport, taxis, rides from friends. With train systems less coordinated on average than in European countries, even when transit links exist the trip times can be long and connections balky, and the average person concludes that transit is less convenient.
Daedaeg From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 666 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9714 times:
I grew up in chicago. Although the subway goes directly into O'hare Airport, it can take up to two hours to go from the airport to my parent's home on the far southside of the city. I can get there much faster in a car.
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
: The reason is very simply - economics. US is a market-driven economy. When it makes economic sense to put a rail link, i.e. the investor / owner is co
: I have personally use the trains to get to ORD, MDW, DCA & BOS. Most of these trains work very well if you are destined for the city center. Example,
: I think that a lot of it has to do with age of the cities in Europe and the US. European cities are pretty old, and because quick transportation metho
: The statement was referring to MAJOR cities. btw, ORD is well connected to the Chicago via the "L" train and I believe MDW as well.
: I would put Portland in there as a major city. Sorry we don't all live in Chicago, New York, or LA.
: Americans are adicted to their cars. As mentioned, several cities have rail links, but I fear their use is limited to a very few people who don't have
: Because city planners were horrible at planning most major cities causing headaches when now they try to put in mass transit.
: Not only is the MAX light rail line to PDX frequent and convenient, it costs a mere $1.40 to $1.70 depending upon where you're starting from/going to
: It seems that BOSSAN's excellent laundry list of airports with transit links pretty much debunks the opening poster's hypothesis. I'd add that PBI ha
: " target=_blank>http://www.mbta.com/traveling_t/sche...e.asp Nah, I just chose to ignore it, as the way I see it (and I rode the Silver Line to Logan
: Cheaper? Not in America. Our cities are much more spread out (less dense) then the equivelent European city. Not only that, most of the cities were a
: All three of those airports are actually really well connected. BWI is in fact well connected to both major cities it serves In most places, yes, in
: Its a Nay for you but its yea for me! I live in the south shore so for me going to logan by public transport it's the silver line. It's very frequent
: I used to take MARTA to ATL - came back from a trip to MUC once, rode the train to Decatur, and had to laugh. ATL - the international city (as they li
: I work in downtown Chicago and often use because the "el"/CTA to MDW and ORD because it is often faster (depending on traffic 30 minutes to MDW and 45
: ..it also has to do with the individualistic mentality of the american culture. In Europe, having access to a rail line or public transportation is c
: I would also note that with some exceptions, there is generally far less use of long distance rail in the USA due to the size of our country and the l
: The best air/rail link in the US is the Washington DC Metro, it's literally right outside the check in doors at Washington Reagan National airport. Tw
: Only during the day... at night, the MARC doesn't run and the Amtrak train is a lot less frequent and a lot more expensive. Also, at night the shuttl
: DCA/METRO is probably the best example of an efficient US airport rail connection. On the other hand, I took the BART connection to OAK once. And it w
: Really, DCA is the most convenient airport in the whole country for those without a car. That is also because the rail line connecting to it is one of
: DC Metro and the Portland's Tri-Met are the best. You can take the train from PDX all the way downtown in less than 40 minutes at a cost of $1.65 each
: Amazing, considering that its funded almost entirely from the farebox. The new CEO has made amazing steps forward in customer service as well. N
: maybe in the please make a distinction between the older cities of the Northeast vs the sun belt cities which were designed around the needs of the a
: Well, I used to take the regular bus from S.Station to Logan. It was just as fast as the silver line however, it was alwas half an hour late, or more
: "Amazing steps forward in customer service?" Gigniel must be referring to a different Metro. He can't be referring to the DC Metro I ride. "Customer"
: I don't know if it debunks. How about the list of airport where a rail link is absent? The list of large airports without one is very long. Also some
: You would think there would be some coordination between the NY Port Authority and NJ Transit. That is very hard when you consider you are using a com
: There are only two tunnels (East and West Bound) from New Jersey to Manhattan for heavy Amtrak/NJ Transit trains, they are nearly 100 years old. NJ T
: Well, yes, but then again, DCA is not as big as some of the other airports on the list Eventually, it will be a through train
: ATL has MARTA (Metro Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority) and Delta has a check in desk in the station immediately when you step off the train.[Edited 200
: And the list of large airports (BOS, EWR, JFK, PHL, DCA, BWI, ATL, FLL, MIA, MSP, ORD, MDW, STL, CLE, LAX, SFO, OAK) with a rail link is also very lo
: With Tom Delay running the show in Congress, Houston may never get a decent metro system. It's kind of ironic, being that Tom Delay is from a Houston
: I've taken MARTA to the Airport...about 44 mnutes to North Springs (my stop)...very good and it beats traffic!
: There are also plans to create an extension off of one of SLC's light rail line to connect downtown and the airport.
: Regarding the MAX rail link to PDX: It's $1.70 to ride to most stops, and the Red Line (Airport Line) was recently extended from downtown west to Beav
: Houston needs rail service to the airport. I believe it is planned to get it in 15 years or so. Houston needs light rail all over in general. We can t
: Did you ever consider that a similar rail network in most areas of the US would require a greater fraction of GDP to build and maintain than a rail n
: I AGREE!!!! I was like, "What the hell is Gigniel (and whomever the other person was) talking about?!! METRO is one of the most problem plagues trans
: Chicago has a system of public transportation that withstands any European oberservation, is even better than many European systems. And I am German a
: Faster than driving? You've got to be JOKING. Seriously, this is a bad joke! I just got back from 3 weeks on your continent and I flew on 5 different
: Forget the green line! Unless you have a 5pm flight on a weekday, it's WAY faster to drive! Took me two hours and two transfers to get from Hollywood
: Add one more to the list...SJC has a connection to both the CalTrain and the city's light rail system.
: Many major U.S. airports have rail links, but the real question is why hardly anyone uses them. The sad fact is that despite worsening traffic, most o
: Many major U.S. airports have rail links, but the real question is why hardly anyone uses them. The sad fact is that despite worsening traffic, most o
: PDX has mainline service from all three, and an MSA nearing 3 million. Put down the haterade.
: Amsterdam is a city of LESS than 1 million people while New York City is a megapolis with a population of 8 million and 13 million if you count the g
: You are leaving out one very important aspect in your argument. The U.S. is a very large country and MASS air travel took off way long before it did
: There has been some talk about some kind of direct downtown-LAX service. Also, Mayor elect Antonio Villaraigosa is trying to fast track the extension
: Indeed, Vienna's rail airport connection is a little bit weird. The track between Vienna and the airport has been renewed in order to allow more trai
: Interestingly enough, in Sacramento, CA they have begun the engineering studies to extend Sacramento Regional Transit light rail all the way out to SM
: I'm taking MARTA to the airport tomorrow to catch my flight to Paris for the Salon...... ........take Marta...it's Smarta!...
: Well it all started when the interstates were built during a time of prosperity. All of a sudden the car became the easiest mode of transport. So abs
: Two options to JFK - LIRR commuter train or the subway (E, J, Z) to Jamaica/Sutphin Blvd Station, then AirTrain to JFK, or the subway (A train) to Ho
: True, but you'll be hard pressed to find any airport, large or small, that doesn't have some sort of convenient and efficient public transportation.
: Incorrect. WMATA is not the instigator of the newly-proposed extension of the Green Line from Greenbelt to BWI... that would be the Maryland Dept. of
: Please re-read my post. I specifically said Saturday and Sunday from EWR to NYC. The NJ Transit Schedule has gaps of 20 to 50 minutes on the weekends
: Unfortunately it won't be. The original Airtrain was supposed to link JFK/LGA and then continue on to Manhattan. Sadly the plan was cut down to what
: MKE also has an Amtrak station that connects the airport with downtown Milwaukee and downtown Chicago.
: Well I'm not really wrong. If you want to quote someone as being wrong, contact WTTG 5 FOX NEWS. They are the one's who used those exact words. And I
: Schipholjfk, BTW, did you know that the car/people index in Italy is actually higher in Italy than in the US?
: OK, let's start a list of US airports with some kind of rail link. Also, let's mention if the rail goes directly to the terminal, or if you have to ta
: Agree - extension of the Metro to Dulles is essential. The Metro stop at DCA is so popular that Metro had to stop people from using their parking lot
: 1. American individualistic mentality. 2. High percentage of vehicle ownership and utilization. 3. Cheap gas prices. 4. Pre-degregulation, if you were
: I used to live in a highrise in downtown/midtown ATL, and as a crewmember based in ATL, for years I took the MARTA from the North Avenue station (whi
: I'm not an out of towner. I live in Adams Morgan. The reality is that, for a system with virtually no subsidy in place, Metro is amazing. Its the sec
: "Issues" with customer service? How about NO customer service? Just last week, the fail safe circuitry in the tunnel under the Potomac failed, forcin
: Fact - a recent Washington Post in-depth examination of Metro found that the renovated cars and renovated escalators break down as often as, or in so
: This isn't happening until 2007 or 2008 (system-wide) at the earliest, per Mr. White's (Metro's CEO) comment to me in a personal email. You live in t
: Seems most points have more or less been touched on so not much more I can say except not all European airports have been blessed with direct train se
: Thank you so much for supporting my REALISTIC argument against Gigniel. AGAIN, more evidence to support what MOST people who live in the real DC-area
: I just read some comments about the Metro service in DC. I lived in DC for 4 years and used Metro everyday. It was usually okay, nothing major to comp
: Here's my list so far: CLE (the first airport in the US to have direct rail service - I cannot verify if also world) JFK LGA* EWR DCA BWI* BOS ATL ORD
: Metro was in much better condition when you lived here. Sadly, it appears to be on a downward slide.
: The logical step would be to do exactly what you describe. There should be a circle: Grand Central Terminal, Penn Station, JFK, LGA. That way you cov
: I agree. We are a family of four, and own six vehicles. Not typical of a European family.
: LAX: yes, connected to rail (Green Line) by bus shuttle. MIA (and FLL): yes, connected to rail (Tri-Rail) by bus shuttle. SLC: rail link planned PVD:
: What a great thread. In Chicago, getting to either ORD or MDW is simple and cheap via rail, or bus and rail. It is not always the fastest or most conv
: NW757251ADV: Did you even bother to read the Washington Post link in my post? There are direct quotes from the Maryland Secretary of Transportation,
: It does appear to be suffering from its maturity and popularity. Not enough money, and spending what they do get not so well, to keep the system in g
: The American Government (State, Local, Fed) does not invest in public transport in the same manner as do European Governments. That is part of the rea
: MKE...rail connections to Amtrak to Downtown MKE and Chicago (northern suburbs too).
: Speaking of Rail connection to Newark Airport (EWR) and the impact of construction of the new pair of rail tunnels connecting NJ to the new 34th St. s
: The only real airport links i consider are the ones that go nonstop (or with few stops) from the main terminal at the airport (no shuttle buses) to th
: Always interesting how when people talk about spending taxpayer's dollars on something they approve of, it instantly becomes "investment"... Suburban
: Memphis is in the initial stages of building a light rail system from downtown to MEM. Scheduled opening is 2010, though no doubt it will be later.
: Ha! The problem with the Green Line is...it's frigging slow. My dad lives in Long Beach... One weekend when I was visiting him just for the heck of i
: Does that even go downtown? The only public transportation downtown I remember is the bus station, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to be stuck doing
: RDU, no. There is a plan to add RDU to the TTA (Triangle Transit Authority) Metro system that is currently beginning building. The RDU stop will not
: The trains on the weekends are crowded but there's plenty of seats, the problem is most people when they go to board a commuter train whether it's at
: Wow, the DC Metro thing just won't end ! Nobody's mentioned it so far that PHX will have light rail in a few years with a bus connection, and eventual
: While the Cleveland RTA may claim this, I know that the MBTA had an airport stop at BOS for at least 12 years before the CLE stop. What may be true i
: I disagree with your assessment and I base it on my own first hand experience. I have talked to conductors on the NJ Transit trains and they confirm
: As the price of fuel continues to increase, decent rail links will come. I say decent because you can't compare Heathrow Express (or even the London T
: For SFO. You have the option in the mornin to take the new CalTrain baby bullet. Which almost makes a direct connection to SFO stopping at the Milbrae
: I've been riding NJ Transit weekdays, Weekends EWR, Metro Park, Princton Jct, Montclair Heights, NY Penn, Hoboken, Secaucus JCT etc. for years. If yo
: Actually, I should make one other point about U.S. airports. Parking fees are an extremely important source of revenue for most large airports, and th
: With all this talk about rail connections and how great they are, and how American cities are often too big for them, etc. Aren't we forgetting about
: That is indeed very good news. Any easily accessible documents on this anywhere that you can point to? Thanks. I very much doubt that the JFK - downt
: Your statements show a breathtaking ignorance of New York City. I've ridden the subways at 3 AM and felt perfectly safe. Families and tourists ride t
: There's a monorail planned from SYR to a planned R&D park about two miles away. Supposedly it will also go downtown one day. I'm skeptical about this
: The one in San Francisco took about half an hour to get downtown from the airport. In the UK almost all major airports have rail links: Birmingham: On
: Why put the airport are the end of the line instead of the middle so that people from both sides of town can get to the airport. There isn't much nee
: There is when that's where your hotel is. Such is the case with most business travelers as well as with many tourists who are visiting large cities.
: I agree that Dallas and most Southern cities are patently absurd in their city planning, that is, in their worship of the car. Here in Austin we are
: I stand corrected then. I just get this really dingy feeling every time I get into a NY subway (yes even nowadays) while in London it seems so nice a
: I just took the R1 train today to and from Philadelphia airport. its quick, no traffic, efficent way of getting into downtown Philly Runs every half h
: Well, I for one don't think Dallas is absurdly designed. Unlike Austin, regional authorities in this area planned for growth, realized it wasn't goin
: The ANC stop is only used for cruise traffic, heading south.. However, there is significant interest in commuter rail between Anchorage and the Mat-Su
: Unfortunately the MTA removed (stole) the $650 Million allocated under the Giulianni administration for an extension of the N train to LGA and reallo
: We are all forgetting the busiest airport in the US.... South Bend, IN (SBN)! Believe it or not SBN has commuter rail service from the terminal to dow
: It doesn't look absurd now, but just wait until gas prices are as high as in Europe, and still climbing.
: I have to agree with you there - most NY subway stations are grungy and breathtakingly ugly, especially when compared with London's. But they are as