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London Luton Runway Length  
User currently offlineWdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 961 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3271 times:

Can someone tell me if Luton would be able to handle long haul aircraft for international Trans atlantic service? What is its runway length? Could the Terminals be able to withstand all those passengers?

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAeroVodochody From Czech Republic, joined Feb 2005, 540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3256 times:

London-Luton has a single runway with a length of 7087ft, which means it is not capable of handling most of the aircraft used on trans-atlantic routes. Also, I highly doubt the terminals would be capable handling the large amounts of pax.


Try not to be jealous, we can't all be Czech.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22304 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3245 times:

How much runway would a 752 need with fuel for EWR, BOS, or PHL? TZ 752s heading to the Caribbean (admittedly not as far as LON-East Coast) used to be quite common at MDW, where the runways are ~6500 feet, and they were in a higher-density configuration than most carriers are likely to use internationally.


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User currently offlineAeroVodochody From Czech Republic, joined Feb 2005, 540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3231 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):

On a standard day, with a dry runway, a fully loaded 752 would need about 7,500 ft. of runway for takeoff assuming 20 degrees of flaps are used, and the runway is at sea level.



Try not to be jealous, we can't all be Czech.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22304 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3222 times:

Quoting AeroVodochody (Reply 3):
On a standard day, with a dry runway, a fully loaded 752 would need about 7,500 ft. of runway for takeoff assuming 20 degrees of flaps are used, and the runway is at sea level.

Are we assuming something like CO's 175Y/16C configuration? LON-PHL or EWR is also about 900 nm short of full range for a 752... not trying to be difficult, just trying to see if it's at all possible.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAeroVodochody From Czech Republic, joined Feb 2005, 540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3208 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
Are we assuming something like CO's 175Y/16C configuration?

I was assuming a fully loaded 752, in which case the configuration doesn't matter  Smile

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
LON-PHL or EWR is also about 900 nm short of full range for a 752... not trying to be difficult, just trying to see if it's at all possible.

That is true, also, the Luton rwy. is 525 ft above sea level, but I think it may be possible, although very very close. It is also fairly unlikely that we will be see this happening as the runway would not always be dry and the weather not suitable for the 752 to be able to lift off of 7,087 feet of runway and fly to PHL or EWR.
I hope this helps  Wink



Try not to be jealous, we can't all be Czech.
User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

It used to be the case that trans-Atlantic flights from LTN had to refuel at Shannon on the outward leg in view of the restricted runway at LTN. Whether this is still the case, I do not know.


MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineGVBIG From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3155 times:

CO flights from BRS to EWR have no problem, and BRS has a runway of approx 6,500ft, so 757s going to EWR from LTN should have no problem, if they start


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User currently offlineSteady Eddie From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3135 times:

Monarch used to op LTN-BGR with a full load of 235 pax and bags on a 111mt MTOW aircraft,

User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2053 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3095 times:

What Luton needs is a full length taxi-way. Backtracking down the runway at peak times is ludicrous.


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User currently offlineSQNo1 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 685 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3081 times:

Does anybody know the length of BRS runway is please?

With Regards,
Alex.B


User currently offlineBMED From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 860 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3071 times:

I'm not sure though that if we would see trans atlantic flights from Luton. I would guess most carriers would opt for Stansted. Would Luton have the infrastructure to handle transatlantic flights. I've not been to Luton before so I don't know, only seen what get shows in Airline.


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User currently offlineGVBIG From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3061 times:

Quoting SQNo1 (Reply 10):
Does anybody know the length of BRS runway is please?

With Regards,
Alex.B

Like I said in reply 7, approx 6,500ft give or take 100ft



Booked it, Packed it, f*cked off!
User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3038 times:

Quoting SQNo1 (Reply 10):
Does anybody know the length of BRS runway is please

6,598ft to be precise with an elevation of 620ft.



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2999 times:

Quoting Voodoo (Reply 9):
What Luton needs is a full length taxi-way. Backtracking down the runway at peak times is ludicrous.

I second that !
A full length twy would increase the number of slots by a considerable amount, thus making better use of the facilities (terminal, apron, etc.).

Why is it that there is no twy to the eastern end of the rwy ?
Is my recall correct, that there is something like a "cliff" (a better description available ?) where the twy would have to be constructed ? This part of the airport was really difficult to see from outside the perimeter.

This would lead to 3 options why there is no twy to the eastern end of rwy:
- Technically impossible to build. I doubt that after I´ve seen FNC
- The NIMBY´s oppose it
- Too expensive for the owner

-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2985 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2860 times:

As I have pointed out in many threads of a similar topic Monarch Airlines successfully operated non-stop their A330-200 from Luton to Orlando Sanford back in the summers of 2000 and 2001 charted by Airtours Holidays, but stopped after Sept 11 bombings. During both summers these flights sold very well and no restrictions were imposed on the passenger numbers.

Since then the airline has refocused their Transatlantic services back out of Gatwick and Manchester.

Airtours back in 2002 operated their DC-10's non-stop on cruise flights to the Carbbiean, Miami and New Orleans.

Also this summer Britannia are operating a number of Cruise flights direct from Luton to New Orleans, Antigua and Barbados using their 763's.

Couple of weeks ago a "Business Airline" called flyFirst annouced they were was going to operate a 752 daily service to Newark. Rumours of this seem to be fading now as they have failed to reach the deadline for funding the new venture. But questions were never raised about the runway length then.

The TBI Group which owns Luton has recognised the need for a full length Taxi Way, but at present the runway can cope with the current traffic levels and for sometime in the future based on current and future growth of aircraft movements at the airport. Unlike BAA which owns the other three major London airports the TBI group does not have bottomless pocket of tax payers money at its disposal  controversal  and their expansion stratagy at Luton is to extend the airport as required.

About a third of Luton's traffic is Biz/Private Jets and is quite rare for these aircraft to back track down the runway and just use the 5000-6000ft of remaining runway.

In the governments "white paper" they annouced aboiut future expansion of airports in the UK, the recommended Luton's runway be extended to 10,000ft but this will only occur when the need arises!

Extending the taxiway to the western end of the runway is going to be difficult anyway, this is where the main longstay car park is located and on quite a steep hill. The would mean the loss of a major car park for the airport which will need to be relocated and also levelling the land whick will cost millions. I think you would find the fire station would also have to be relocated.


User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2829 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 15):
Extending the taxiway to the western end of the runway ..

But aren´t the prevailing winds from the west? And therefore a taxiway to the eastern end would make more sense?
Though my visits to LTN have been rare, that need for backtracking was something that remained in my mind ... Any also have seen a/c waiting at some holding point for other a/c to vacate the runway. This of course is not only a question of "delays" but also a safety concern to some degree. IIRC that disastrous accident at Tenerife (now TFN ?) in 1977 (KL 747 & PanAm 747) was caused by one a/c backtracking on the runway in fog conditions.
Maybe the TBI group can use that point to siphon-off some taxpayers money to improve that situation ...  Smile

Regarding "carparks", IMO Luton could use some additions ...
What they have done a few years ago in HAJ is: They built multilevel carparks using pre-fabricated steel-elements. That way, the construction process is fast and also it is possible to dismount the whole structure and rebuild it in another location should the need arise (and its cheaper than a carpark made of solid concrete).



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
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