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Why No UA Mainline At RDU?  
User currently offlineUsairwys757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3358 times:

They had mainline service once before if I'm not mistaken. I think UA would do well there with mainline service to ORD or maybe even a flight to DEN. I believe there is a flight to Denver on UA Express, but isnt that a big enough route to have mainline service??

Just a hunch.

Or maybe even TED service??

[Edited 2005-06-14 06:36:05]

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3307 times:

$$$$$$$. That's what everything is about.


Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1482 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 3315 times:

Mainline UA flew to RDU for about 35 years, but pulled out after the 9/11 attacks. They flew 4-6 737's/727's/A32x flights/day to ORD and also hourly UAX CRJ's to IAD just prior to 9/11.

RDU was (and maybe still is) UAX's largest city (# of pax wise). In the Fall of 2003 (last time I saw data), it would have been UA's 36th largest doemstic station with it's number of pax. That put RDU ahead of many UAL stations like GSO, CLT, RIC, CVG, and many smaller Western cities. (CLT has since added many flights, namely DEN and IAD in support of the UA/US codeshare.) RDU also had the highest percentage of premium pax of any UAX station (again from Fall '03 data)

UAX did serve DEN with YV CR7's for about 6 months but abandoned it. When I worked there, it had chronic weight restrictions out of RDU due to the 4+ hours stage length. Often it had to make a fuel stop in MCI or either leave 20 pax behind. Add to that the fact that it was always full and delayed and it did not add up to exactly what UA was looking for.

JI also served DEN n/s with 2x 737's from RDU in 2000-2001. It was one of JI's better yeilding routes with all the cargo they used to carry on the route.

Unfortunately I don't see UA coming back anytime soon. They don't usually return to cities they have pulled out of. I wish they would though since I work for UA now. Maybe when ZW finishes up the ground handling there, UA will come back...fingers crossed...but I doubt it.

UsAirways757 I see you are from SYR...another market I'm surprised UA ditched...

[Edited 2005-06-14 08:29:34]


Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4272 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3269 times:

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 2):
Maybe when ZW finishes up the ground handling there, UA will come back...fingers crossed...but I doubt it.

Considering that ZW will still be ground handling there for the foreseeable future (United is keeping ZW as the handling agent in RDU even after they stop flying for UAX), a mainline return seems unlikely.

That having been said, UA is going to have a hard time replacing some seats into there. RDU-ORD has been a 146 route for years, and the planes are always full on that route, even when using the 100 seat 146's, of which zw has 5. 170's don't have the capacity. I think United would be better to run some of their own metal into this station, but, I doubt Mainline will be anyplace but the biggest airports in the near future. Enjoy the RJ's.


User currently offlineWomack17 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 488 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3238 times:

I still don't believe that UA has given the RDU service enough respect. In all my flight experiences with UA both departing from RDU and arriving into RDU my trips have always been shared with other pax on fully loaded aircraft. The hourly RDU-IAD flights did well regardless of the aircraft type used. The CRJ's, J41's, 146's and J32's were always packed. To paraphrase an old cliche it seems to me that United has a history at RDU of cutting off their noses to despite their faces. Before 9/11 UA had a 735 that departed RDU around 1730 and made a stop at ORD before continuing the flight to the west coast. On this particular flight the pax were treated to full dinner service to RDU and then another full dinner flight to the West coast.


Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3210 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 1):
$$$$$$$. That's what everything is about.

What do you mean by $$? RDU's full of premium members for all airlines (except WN which does not offer such services).. As a 50/50 business/leisure station, RDU is the location where most airlines want to put some sort of F class service. Which is why airlines line United and Air Canada are looking at putting F/J class service aircraft at RDU. They may not be mainline, but they are aircraft with F and/or J class as they see the importance of having such amenities for customer loyalty.

UA mainline may not return (unless Texas Pacific or the 2 ex-CEOs take over), but F/J class will return (if they already haven't) on most routes with their CR7 (and/or E70 should they come). Why mainline left in the first place at RDU and not other stations is a mystery to me.. but UA has a history of making moves that isn't necessary a "real world" move and sticking to it for some reason.. Should UA decide to re-start DEN or, heaven forbid SFO, I would hope they would use their loophole to bring some mainline in on those routes. oh well. UAL will not get my business, but that's just because I don't like them and never had a good experience. But I just had to throw that in there..  Smile



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

United mainline doesn't have equipment available for any expansion. They're still getting rid of some 737-300s and 737-500s. Until they buy more planes...post bankruptcy...then don't hold your breath for anything but Express expansion.

User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3167 times:

RDU is SJC of the Southeast. Heavy tech. When/if the tech market recovers then you'll see more mainline. AA was going to link the two cities a couple of years ago with 738, but those plans were shelved.

User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3164 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 7):
RDU is SJC of the Southeast. Heavy tech.

RDU is kinda mid in the tech.. Nano tech is starting to rise here. Some big companies like SAS, Nortel (which isn't doing well), IBM (which isn't doing well), Cisco, Lovetro, etc..

RDU is more heavily in the pharmaceutical and biotech. There is some financial.

RDU is also heavy in education and educational endeavors.

SJC truly was very heavy tech, a lot more so than RDU. RDU-SJC has been tried by at least 2 airlines, I think (Midway, Southwest).. and all attempts failied. I believe that the route would have been more profitable and steadfast had either attempted RDU-SFO/OAK.. That would have been a more business/leisure route (which RDU is better utilized for) more so than SJC, which would have been a majority business route.



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineFlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 912 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3078 times:

It is really too bad that UAL couldn't hold on to RDU. There is always going to be talk of a need for RDU --> LAX and/or SFO and of all the carriers, UA is best situated to make one of those successful.

My thinking is that the tech industry in the Triangle generates a significant amount of transpac demand. So, a UA flight to either LAX or SFO would fulfill the RDU O&D to Cali as well as feed Transpac.

(I have always wondered if the RDU LAX O&D is a little skewed because of RDU transpac holding multi-tickets).

And, for what it is worth, back in the 70's, UAL had one stop service to LAX from RDU. I believe the stop was in Huntsville.



DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, F28, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, IL-62, L-1011, MD-82/83, YS-11, DHC-8, PA-28-161, ERJ 135/145, E-1
User currently offlineWomack17 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 488 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months ago) and read 2916 times:

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 9):
And, for what it is worth, back in the 70's, UAL had one stop service to LAX from RDU. I believe the stop was in Huntsville.

RDU-HSV-LAX????? No wonder UA is in bankruptcy. What's the O&D for RDU-HSV and HSV-LAX? - and that's taking into account the famed Space Camp.  wideeyed 



Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months ago) and read 2912 times:

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 10):
RDU-HSV-LAX????? No wonder UA is in bankruptcy. What's the O&D for RDU-HSV and HSV-LAX? - and that's taking into account the famed Space Camp.

This was back in the 70's during regulation. What they did then has no bearing on their financial situation now.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4400 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2906 times:
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Quoting Womack17 (Reply 10):
RDU-HSV-LAX????? No wonder UA is in bankruptcy. What's the O&D for RDU-HSV and HSV-LAX? - and that's taking into account the famed Space Camp.

That was in the 70's so things were much different.

As far as UA not having mainline especially to DEN, I don't really understand that, other than as previously said aircraft availabiltiy is an issue and I'm speculating WN has hurt yields with the ATA codeshare through MDW.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
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