Trent900 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 419 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12649 times:
If this is true (not seen the news yet) this is good for both A and B. At least the airlines can now stop waiting around and order an aircraft best suited to their needs. IMO the 380 has much more potential.
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18839 posts, RR: 64 Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12625 times:
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9613 posts, RR: 10 Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 12462 times:
Signs are good. Better than ever.
Even if "747 Advanced announces launch" is not true unfortunately, unless you take the words of the head of Boeing Italy for real: "Boeing will launch, Boeing has decided".
Unfortunately another Boeing executive contradicts it. But this is the strongest signs yet that the decision might be just a formality.
Thanks for posting the Reuters-link.
AeroPiggot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 280 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 11669 times:
This topic is misleading, the 747Adv has not been launch. Boeing board will only launch a new/derivative model, when they have enough orders to justify the expenditure of company resources. Remember guys the taxpayers do not subsidize the launch of Boeing products.
A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
Schipholjfk From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 579 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 11639 times:
Quoting Trent900 (Reply 2): IMO the 380 has much more potential.
Can you be more detailed and explain why you think so? Thank you.
Airways From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 880 posts, RR: 13 Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11337 times:
Alen Mulally today said that they are in talks with customers about the purchase of new 747s. Mainly freighters but also pax versions. He didn't tell whether these planes are 744s or 747adv.
Furthermore, he said that they were planning to announce the closure of the 747 production later this year, but do to strong interestest, they are keeping it open. The same goes for the 767 line. This line will stay open too.
The 747adv is being discussed at the moment. Nothing new so far, they intend to use the 787 engines and some other 787 technology. A project group is currently working on that, but nothing has been decided yet.
I saw the N-TV people at the press conference. I think they did an interview afther the presentation.
BestWestern From Ireland, joined Sep 2000, 6431 posts, RR: 58 Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11243 times:
Quoting NA (Reply 6): head of Boeing Italy for real
As if he knows whats going on.
Quoting Airways (Reply 9): Alen Mulally today said that they are in talks with customers about the purchase of new 747s. Mainly freighters but also pax versions. He didn't tell whether these planes are 744s or 747adv.
He was on Bloomberg yesterday - and basically said the same thing, but discussed the 747A more - seems like more interest coming from Freight. He was very fluffy about it.
Quoting Airways (Reply 9): Furthermore, he said that they were planning to announce the closure of the 747 production later this year
First ever mention of this. Are you sure he said this?
Trent900 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 419 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11223 times:
Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 8): Can you be more detailed and explain why you think so? Thank you.
The 747 Adv would be a great aircraft for current 747 operators that do not need much more extra capacity. The 380 on the other hand has been designed to be extended if need be and with a larger floor area airlines have greater freedom on how to make passengers feel more comfortable. Even Singapore Airlines have said they would rather 'miss-use' a 380 on routes it wasn't really designed for.
WhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10717 times:
Quoting Trent900 (Reply 11): The 747 Adv would be a great aircraft for current 747 operators that do not need much more extra capacity
The issue is not so much capacity (the 744 is already an enormously flexible aircraft) as economy.
Current capacity for the 744 is at a useful market point. What would sell the aircraft is a significant change downward in fuel burn and ZFW/space ratio, and with the Trent 1000 and GENx coming on line too then it starts to look like a desirable product again.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the 747-800 carrying the torch into the next decade or two (my little crystal ball prediction for the new aircraft, the 748!)
KennyK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 478 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10560 times:
Are Boeing further along the path of launching a new 747 or are we going over the same ground again when Boeing was going to 'launch' 747 derivatives in the past?
Avek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4092 posts, RR: 18 Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10499 times:
Quoting Trent900 (Reply 11): a larger floor area airlines have greater freedom on how to make passengers feel more comfortable.
The weight of cabin furnishings is posing a MAJOR problem for the A380, and airlines will be lucky to install EXISTING longhaul premium products into the plane as it is.
First ever mention of this. Are you sure he said this?
He said it last week, in so many words. If they don't get some serious orders for the current 744/767, then they will decide next month to shut the lines down.
Atmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 39 Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9834 times:
Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 8): Quoting Trent900 (Reply 2):
IMO the 380 has much more potential.
Can you be more detailed and explain why you think so? Thank you.
His username is Trent900. He doesn't need another reason
Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 12): I wouldn't be surprised to see the 747-800 carrying the torch into the next decade or two (my little crystal ball prediction for the new aircraft, the 748!)
That's my prediction as well. It continues this obsession with putting 8s into model numbers, but it also indicates that the aircraft has a range of ~8000nm.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9636 times:
Quoting KennyK (Reply 13): Are Boeing further along the path of launching a new 747 or are we going over the same ground again when Boeing was going to 'launch' 747 derivatives in the past?
Much much further along than other stillborn concepts of the 1995-2001 timespan. The -400XQLR would run second place, but even that was never really close to launch. A good deal of -400XQLR design work will go into the Adv, especially noise reducing features (cheverons, flap tweaks) and aerodynamic improvements (wingtip).
Quoting Airways (Reply 9): Alen Mulally today said that they are in talks with customers about the purchase of new 747s. Mainly freighters but also pax versions. He didn't tell whether these planes are 744s or 747adv.
Furthermore, he said that they were planning to announce the closure of the 747 production later this year, but do to strong interestest, they are keeping it open. The same goes for the 767 line. This line will stay open too.
Alan Mulally was also quoted to say the Adv has a "very, very good chance of proceeding." If the Adv will enter service at the end of 2008, Boeing will have to switch to Adv production by atleast mid-2007. That's only another 18-24 months of 744 backlog, and at the rate they are being produced (slowly), that's only one or two 744 orders from being secure.
It isn't an impossible task for Boeing to bridge production of these two aircraft nor a necessity to give them away at cost.
CXYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9324 times:
Quoting AeroPiggot (Reply 7): Boeing board will only launch a new/derivative model, when they have enough orders to justify the expenditure of company resources
That statement has an inherent chicken/egg problem to it.
Boeing's board will only give final approval once there are enough orders, but they will give approval to sell (or however they word it) before that.
YUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9316 times:
747 Advanced launch slips
Boeing has pushed back its planned launch of the Boeing 747 Advanced from its previous mid-year target by several months, but remains confident that it will secure airline backing for the stretched aircraft.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8948 times:
Quoting Aither (Reply 20): Who want to bet the launch customers will be the Japanese ?
Not me.
Stong indications are CX will be the first launch customer, with response in the Japanese markets rated to be lukewarm at best. NH have largely picked the 773ER/787 as the backbone of their future fleet, and JL isn't in a hurry to "trade-up" anytime soon.
They could come around in time, but not by the July-August launch that some sources indicate.
Atmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 39 Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8719 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 21): NH have largely picked the 773ER/787 as the backbone of their future fleet,
And they have been making noises about adding a lot of 773ERs to replace their larger widebodies.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
Jumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 8371 times:
Quoting Trent900 (Reply 2): IMO the 380 has much more potential.
how so? The 380 has limited potential due to its size and airport capabilities. Boeing, with no doubt tons of research, believes they can fill a lucrative market for the 747A which fits the needs of more airlines then the A380 ever will. Of course, I dont have a crystal ball, and only time will tell.
DIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 30 Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7486 times:
Even if not totally true yet. . .it will be. . .good news for airliner lovers around the world.
Airbus better start seriously considering coming out with the shortened version of the A380, or else Boeing will have that segment all to themselves.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
25 BoeingBus: I dont see why Airbus has too... look, this is small piece of the pie when it comes to aircraft as a whole. Airbus created a new segment with the int
26 DIA: I agree completely. But I do think Boeing will sell more 747advs than Airbus will sell A380s, unless they shrink the Airbus giant. And, no, they don'
27 DfwRevolution: I doubt that is possible: #1. Weight- the A388 is built with growth variants in mind. One of the reasons the A388 is a bit heavy is that it's built w
28 Freedom4all: Please change the topic title. I thought they launched it!!! Still that article seems like good news, I would say that it is pretty much certain that
29 Ken777: I still believe that Boeing will go with the 747A and Airbus will not shrink the 380 for a long time. Shrinking the 380 looked like a good idea when i
30 Cloudy: That statement has an inherent chicken/egg problem to it. Boeing's board will only give final approval once there are enough orders, but they will giv
31 Monteycarlos: Why? Even Boeing says that this segment is not that big - forecasting a market for 400 planes I believe. When you think about it, it would make it ve
32 Atmx2000: I wonder whether Airbus will build a family that spans the 350-500 pax range if the A346 continues to lose against the 773ER, or whether they will tr
33 Monteycarlos: Yeah I'm not too sure either - but the truth is that the A346 and 77W are just no comparison at all. The 77W economics and operations just kill the A
34 Atmx2000: A further stretch of the A350 is likely going to need much more thrust than the current GEnx and Trent1000 engines will provide.
35 Monteycarlos: Yeah, I mean if you take the 77W it has a massive 115k lbs turbofan on it. For the A350 to be competitive it would need a thrust rating similar (mayb
37 Lehpron: If/when Boeing's 747Adv is launched, what will it be called? 745X and 746X were taken, I suppose the 747Stretch could have bee the 747-700 and the 747
38 Monteycarlos: Lehpron, I am guessing 747-800... Both Airbus and Boeing are obsessed with 8's because they are a lucky Chinese number (i.e. orders from China). Who k
39 Trent900: You guys are quick today I do like to be optimistic for both side though. D.
40 NumberTwelve: Always the old comment. And here is mine: Better subsidiying civil planes than wars.
41 AlanUK: BBC News seems to believe Boeing will launch its 747A: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/default.stm Click on the "Fighting back: Boeing take on Air
42 DIA: Of course they did! They don't want to give out figures that would attract too much attention from Airbus! I'd say there is no market for the darn th
43 Atmx2000: That's not true. It doesn't appear that there is a good path for Airbus to build a direct 744 and 747Adv challenger by creating a derivative of an ex
44 Monteycarlos: I take issue with that for one reason - Airbus completes the same studies as do many independant bodies so they would very quickly see through Boeing
45 PlaneSmart: Who do you think told the BBC? For a $2-3b project, there are 3 pre-requisites before you make a public launch - risk sharing partner/s, funding, 2-3
46 Zvezda: Airbus were having a tough time selling the A340-600 against the B777-300ER even before Airbus drove an A350 through the heart of their "4 engines 4
47 Pyxisnautica: An excellent question. I think Airbus has had the A380 in the works for far longer than most seem to realize. The whole project has always struck me
48 DIA: wow. . .it is much too late at night for me to get into all this. . . Let's just say this: 1. Boeing is smart. 2. airbus probably won't offer a short
49 AirFrnt: More to the point, the A380 is designed to be extended in the future not shortened. This is part of the reason why the economics of the 747A are look
50 Monteycarlos: 100% whole heartedly agree! Again, agreement and as AirFrnt says it will if anything be extended. I didn't mean to shoot you down or tear you apart b
51 Jacobin777: it means "end of statement(s)" in an affirmative way..hope that helps..
52 Monteycarlos: Oh ok, like a way of saying "thats all I have to say" or something? Thanks.
54 DarthRandall: My mother calls it her "special visitor." Of course it depends on just how efficient Boeing can make a 747, but, if they can make one that will be as
55 Monteycarlos: LOL! I'm afraid there is nothing special about it!
56 Astuteman: Absolutely spot-on! IMHO A350/A340 fuse diameter does not compete above 300 seats - just look at A346. Option 3 sounds like the perfect way to assaul
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Will be interesting to see which airline becomes the launch customer
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