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Alitalia Interested In 787  
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4731 posts, RR: 45
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7472 times:

According to TTGItalia (search - Alitalia (in Italian Only))

Alitalia has expressed interest in the 787 to the head of Boeing Italy. They have previously indicated the desire to be a launch customer, however have been unable to do so because of financial difficulties.

I wonder if the recent 'wiping' away of the debt sheet will enable them to place their long-rumoured order.

We all know AZ has an affinity to Boeing wide-bodies.


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIADguy73 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7343 times:

On what route(s) would AZ use such a big plane with a profit? I just don't see it...btw AZ 623 was cancelled today to IAD.

User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7325 times:

Quoting IADguy73 (Reply 1):
On what route(s) would AZ use such a big plane with a profit? I just don't see it...btw AZ 623 was cancelled today to IAD.

787's are relatively small planes as far as widebodies go.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4731 posts, RR: 45
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7312 times:

There are many routes within the system that could use the payload of the 788 combined with the capacity of the 763. These aircraft (788) would allow AZ to reopen many markets once left including LAX (starting next year with 777s), SFO, HKG, etc.

The capacities are similar (to a 763).

In the meantime, AZ's 763's are being scheduled for new interiors. They're going to be reconfigured with 170 degree lie-flat (downward angled) seats in Magnifica (similar to the United First seats on the PS configured 757s). Not sure about whether PTVs will be installed or not yet...



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21418 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7297 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 3):
The capacities are similar (to a 763).

closer to 764, actually, with 777ER range. Not a bad combo for an intermediate international carrier like AZ.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineIADguy73 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7209 times:

Sorry, brainfart..i was thinking A380  white 

User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4963 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7073 times:

Quoting IADguy73 (Reply 5):
Sorry, brainfart..i was thinking A380

First time I think about it, but a 380 in AZ livery? I'd love to see that!



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineMD11junkie From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 3136 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6980 times:

I would rather see AZ out of its financial issues they have, rather than adding more and more planes to their fleet.

The 763s are in good shape, still... aren't they? Plus... isn't it too early to talk flying the 787 when we don't know if AZ will make it to 2010 with its current situation?

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD-11 Junkie



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6921 times:

Do they have any finances for that? I thought they were one of the worst performing airlines in the world. Probably they just hope for more taxpayers money to be pumped in as it was happening over many years.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6911 times:

I think SFO would definitely be in the works....I've read a few postings here about the difficulties AZ was having here @ SFO with the 763's, with the added cargo, I think the 787 would do them well here....

Would be nice to see AZ here in The Bay area!!  yes 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11855 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6884 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Would be nice to see AZ being added to the long customer list of the B787. Any Italian with an idea on when an order could be announced?

User currently offlineComeAndGo From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6847 times:

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 7):
The 763s are in good shape, still... aren't they? Plus... isn't it too early to talk flying the 787 when we don't know if AZ will make it to 2010 with its current situation?

Alitalia is state owned and WILL make it to 2010, believe me. The planes will be bought by Alitalia, then sold to a dubious company and leased back like the did in the past. Seem these lease companies exist only for Alitalia.


User currently offlineJr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 966 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6816 times:

Alitalia should be first interested in getting their act together before getting interested in another aircraft.

From 742's, to MD11s, to parking the MD11s, to 777s, to bringing the MD11s back... to 787's? Are any of the MD11s still in service as of right now?



I've flown on 9V-SPK.
User currently offlineComeAndGo From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6698 times:

Quoting Jr (Reply 12):
From 742's, to MD11s, to parking the MD11s, to 777s, to bringing the MD11s back... to 787's? Are any of the MD11s still in service as of right now?

Alitalia has one of the youngest fleets in Europe.

777..........New
767..........New
320..........New
319..........New
E170........New
ERJ..........New
321...........from the mid to late '90
MD11........from the early '90
md80........30 from late '80 to early '90
md80........the rest from the early to mid '80


User currently offlineMD11junkie From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 3136 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6664 times:

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 11):
Alitalia is state owned and WILL make it to 2010, believe me. The planes will be bought by Alitalia, then sold to a dubious company and leased back like the did in the past. Seem these lease companies exist only for Alitalia.

I've never stated that AZ was not state owned. Now, BA has already tried to lobby the EU NOT to grant a rescue plan or whatever is called there for AZ - do you think they'll make it with one of the main airlines in Europe opposing their recovery?

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD-11 Junkie



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineComeAndGo From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6542 times:

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 14):
I've never stated that AZ was not state owned. Now, BA has already tried to lobby the EU NOT to grant a rescue plan or whatever is called there for AZ - do you think they'll make it with one of the main airlines in Europe opposing their recovery?

Of course, it's Italian. The Euro is trashing the Italian economy. Now the UK is trashing the Italian airline. Go figure. Italy threatens to step out of the EU and BA shuts up. Besides BA is run by an Australian (outsider).


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6518 times:

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 14):
Now, BA has already tried to lobby the EU NOT to grant a rescue plan or whatever is called there for AZ - do you think they'll make it with one of the main airlines in Europe opposing their recovery?

I doubt that we will ever see a "recovery". Alitalia without permanent trouble would be like a.net without rumors.  Wink
BA has a good point - certain European airlines have never received a single cent of tax money while others were kept alive by their governments.

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 15):
The Euro is trashing the Italian economy. Now the UK is trashing the Italian airline.

Was that intended as a joke?  Confused

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 15):
Italy threatens to step out of the EU and BA shuts up.

I don't think so.

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 15):
Besides BA is run by an Australian (outsider).

Which doesn't mean he has no clue about European politics.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineComeAndGo From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6497 times:

I wouldn't be surprised if we see something on the lines of Swissair / Swiss creative accounting.

Quoting Udo (Reply 16):
I don't think so.

Well they've mentioned it in the past. The current Prime Minister isn't too pleased and suggested just that when he entered office. Italy can't control it's valuta with the Euro being controlled centrally in Europe. It's trashing italian economy. In the past they simply devaluated the Lira. Now they can't do that.

Quoting Udo (Reply 16):
Which doesn't mean he has no clue about European politics.

He may have a clue about European politics but not Italian politics.


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6472 times:

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 17):
It's trashing italian economy. In the past they simply devaluated the Lira. Now they can't do that.

Then they should try to get some advice in other EU countries where the Euro doesn't trash anything.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineComeAndGo From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6463 times:

Quoting Udo (Reply 18):
Then they should try to get some advice in other EU countries where the Euro doesn't trash anything.

Like what?


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6417 times:

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 19):
Like what?

Austria, Finland, Ireland, Luxembourg.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineTrident2e From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6282 times:

You don't seriously think that the EU will approve Alitalia's restructuring (or bail-out) and then allow it to order aircraft from Boeing. Politics will go to work here and if AZ orders any aircraft you can bet your bottom dollar they will have to make it Airbus.

User currently offlineBassie2010 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5857 times:

Quoting Jr (Reply 12):
Alitalia is state owned and WILL make it to 2010, believe me. The planes will be bought by Alitalia, then sold to a dubious company and leased back like the did in the past. Seem these lease companies exist only for Alitalia.

State ownership (or being backed up by a government) is no guarantee (think Sabena, Swissair). Even if the current proposed rescue plan is approved by the EU commission, it is still doubtful if Alitalia will survive. The split up of there operations in two seperate companies might help, but I personally don't think they will survive. They have taken a huge blow with Ryanair entering the Italian domestic market and they are still not producing black figures. I give it two more years before they go bankrupt. May be Olympic will beat them to it  Smile

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 17):
Italy can't control it's valuta with the Euro being controlled centrally in Europe. It's trashing italian economy. In the past they simply devaluated the Lira. Now they can't do that.

The Italian company is not being trashed by the Euro, Italy just has a trashy economy at the moment which they could normally 'quick fix' by devaluating their even trashier valuta. The Italian economy needs some serious restructering (as do a number of European economies) and the governments need to get their accounts in order.



Flown A319 A320 A321 A342 B733 B737 B738 B739 B742 B744 B762 B772 DC3 F50 F60 F70 F100 MD11 RJ85
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7929 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5766 times:

If AZ orders the 787-8, I think once they get the 788 I can see the airline reviving MXP-SFO. With the far longer range of the 788 AZ can fly the plane on a full pax/cargo load on this route year-round.  Smile

User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1295 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5602 times:

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 13):
Alitalia has one of the youngest fleets in Europe.

So how come I always see only overaged flying cigars (MD 80) from AZ?

Do you have numbers for the different types of aircraft?



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
25 Atmx2000 : Well, then you would probably be wrong. Do you think Italian politics would allow th EU to force Alitalia to order only Airbus when Alenia has been a
26 Irishpower : SFO will absolutely be back. AZ still has their landing rights there but haven't used them since 9/01.
27 Post contains images Alitalia744 : i can guarantee if AZ orders any wide-body aircraft it will be the 788 or more 772ER's.
28 Trident2e : Yes. You obviously don't live in the real world.
29 Post contains images KLM685 : It's becoming more and more common to buy planes even if you're not in a great situation. I personally think that AZ will look great in the 787, but
30 Baw716 : The 787 would do what the 767 can't: Carry passengers AND cargo over long distances on thin routes at a cost far less than it does today. This has bee
31 Atmx2000 : So you believe that Italy is going to allow the EU to dictate that AZ buy Airbus, when Italy gets major revenue from Boeing, through Alenia, which I
32 Baw716 : Atmx2000 What is Trident2e thinking? The EU does not dictate anything to Italy. In fact, the EU is in danger of remaining relavant, given the recent D
33 Post contains links ComeAndGo : The MD-82 were delivered: 1983 to 1985 22 1986 to 1990 28 1991 to 1995 38 The older MD80 are being replaced by newer A319/320 The old A300 have been
34 ComeAndGo : No, you're wrong. Italy works with Boeing on the 787. They will definitely buy Boeing. Plus you have to keep in mind that 3 Alitalia executives were
35 Post contains links ComeAndGo : Check here. http://www.geocities.com/azafleet/
36 Udo : No doubt it is. But other countries (e.g. the ones I mentioned) don't seem to so many problems with the currency. My point simply was there are other
37 Post contains images IDAWA : As far as I know, when Alitalia was choosing between the A330 and the 767 in the early '90s, they sent two of their pilots, Capt.Nassetti and Capt.Ra
38 EK156 : I thought EK were interested in buying Alitalia...what happened there?
39 Glareskin : Thanks come and go! This confirms they have an awful lot of MD 80's...
40 Post contains links ComeAndGo : The original article I read was published in Aviation Week and Space Technology years ago. AW&ST 4/17/95 page 44. Anyway I did search and here are som
41 Karan69 : I do know they operate MXP-BOM-MXP daily, any other??
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