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Why Is JFK Not A DL Hub?  
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6227 times:

Okay, perhaps it's a silly question, but here goes:

About a month ago, I helped a teacher at my school plan her trip on Delta SAN-ATH, via CVG and JFK (she is a Delta Premiere member). It was kind of fun showing her how the internet timetables work, and I helped her with flight schedules for internal Greece travel (Athens-Channia-Thessaloniki-Athens) on Olympic Airways.

Here's the question - with so many Delta flights from JFK to Europe, why is there not more of a concentration of domestic flights to/from JFK to connect? Yes, I realize that B6 has developed a significant hub there, and that Song is focusing on competing with that, but does Delta rely heavily on O&D passengers out of NYC as justification for keeping that many flights at JFK instead of CVG or ATL?


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65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6181 times:

Right.

LGA and EWR are better situated to handle the domestic demand for NYC travel. So many of domestic routes would not work from JFK especially those to smaller sized markets.

But the more apt term for Delta's operation there is "gateway". They rely on local NYC demand to fill International flights and have feeder flights from many destinations to help out. But they don't really get into domestic connecting service.

One could argue that EWR is a gateway not a hub for CO because they rely so much on local O&D business. Even CO as big as they are does not connect many domestic passengers in EWR.


User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6149 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):
with so many Delta flights from JFK to Europe, why is there not more of a concentration of domestic flights to/from JFK to connect?

Well JFK is more of international flights and then connecting them to their hubs and some other focus cities. Song is building up so I guess there is no need for DL to build up there to. As Song gets bigger at JFK, then DL will be International and flights to hubs. Not much else, probably a while away though.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineLGAtoIND From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 490 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6151 times:

There are many connections possible at JFK on DL. I know that Comair has numerous flights to many smaller cities to connect with DL's International bank at JFK. IND, CVG, RDU, PHL, STL, PIT, are just some examples.

User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 983 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6099 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 1):
LGA and EWR are better situated to handle the domestic demand for NYC travel. So many of domestic routes would not work from JFK especially those to smaller sized markets.

This really isn't true as evidenced by B6. LGA has a limited number of domestic cities that can be served due to the 1500nm perimeter rule. EWR is in NEW JERSEY...nuff said. But New York isn't really in the best location geographically to connect passengers on domestic flights. To answer the original question, I think DL just screwed the pooch on building up JFK and didn't do so until its territory was threatened/stolen by B6.



"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6072 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 1):
One could argue that EWR is a gateway not a hub for CO because they rely so much on local O&D business. Even CO as big as they are does not connect many domestic passengers in EWR.

Your kidding right?



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6043 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 5):
Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 1):
One could argue that EWR is a gateway not a hub for CO because they rely so much on local O&D business. Even CO as big as they are does not connect many domestic passengers in EWR.

Your kidding right?

I know, are you kidding, do you live in NY????? It is pretty big hub if you ask me, hint hundreds of flight to everywhere and the ads on every street in Manhattan.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5985 times:

It doesn't have anything to do with the size of CO's operation. It's big. But the domestic business to/from EWR primarily O&D, not connecting. So in that respect it's not a connecting hub. Internationally you could look at as a gateway. Not that calling it a hub is wrong. The do connect domestic passengers.

User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5946 times:

Right, but it is more than that. It isn't so much connecting, it is big on connecting but alot of it is O&D.

In other words to all the people in NYC and lots at CO it is a hub but to the rest it is a gateway. So you are right. But it is both.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5875 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 1):
One could argue that EWR is a gateway not a hub for CO because they rely so much on local O&D business

Huh?  confused 

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 8):
In other words to all the people in NYC and lots at CO it is a hub but to the rest it is a gateway.

It's a major domicile of theirs that uses CO Express to connect passengers to mainline flights. That's a good start for calling it a hub.

-R


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6099 times:

Just for background information, here are the 419 flights leaving EWR tommorrow for other destinations, plus the three bus "flights" for ABE:

ABE: 3x BUS
ACK: 2x ERJ
ALB: 3x ERJ, 1x ER3
AMS: 1x 764, 1x 762
ARN: 1x 752
ATL: 2x 733, 7x 735
AUA: 1x 752
AUS: 2x 735
AVL: 2x ERJ
BDA: 1x 738, 2x 73G
BDL: 4x ERJ
BFS: 1x 752
BGR: 3x ERJ
BHM: 2x ERJ
BHX: 2x 752
BNA: 4x ERJ
BOG: 1x 73G
BOS: 1x 733, 10x 735, 1x ERJ
BQN: 1x 738
BRS: 1x 752
BRU: 1x 764
BTV: 4x ERJ
BUF: 1x 738, 5x ERJ
BWI: 4x ERJ
CAE: 1x ERJ, 1x ER3
CDG: 1x 777, 1x 762
CHS: 3x ERJ
CLE: 1x 752, 2x 739, 1x 738, 1x 733, 1x 735
CLT: 7x ERJ
CMH: 2x 735, 4x ERJ
CUN: 1x 752, 1x 733
CVG: 4x ERJ, 1x ER3
DAB: 2x ERJ
DAY: 3x ERJ
DCA: 7x 735, 1x ERJ
DEN: 2x 738, 1x 73G, 1x 735
DFW: 5x 735
DTW: 1x 735, 5x ERJ
DUB: 1x 764
EDI: 2x 752
FCO: 1x 764
FLL: 4x 752, 1x 738, 1x 733
FPO: 1x ERJ
FRA: 1x 777
GLA: 1x 752
GRR: 2x ERJ
GRU: 1x 762
GSO: 5x ERJ
GSP: 3x ERJ
GVA: 1x 762
GYE: 1x 738
HAM: 1x 752
HKG: 1x 777
HNL: 1x 764
HSV: 1x ERJ
IAD: 8x ERJ
IAH: 2x 762, 2x 752, 1x 739, 2x 73G, 4x 735
IND: 1x 752, 1x 735, 3x ERJ
JAX: 2x 735, 2x ERJ
LAS: 2x 753, 2x 752, 1x 739, 1x 738
LAX: 1x 753, 3x 752, 1x 738, 1x 73G
LEX: 1x ERJ
LGW: 2x 777, 1x 752
LIM: 1x 752
LIS: 1x 752
LIT: 2x ERJ
MAD: 1x 777
MAN: 1x 762, 1x 752
MBJ: 1x 733
MCI: 4x ERJ
MCO: 1x 753, 5x 752, 2x 739
MDW: 3x 735
MEM: 2x ERJ, 1x ER3
MEX: 2x 73G
MHT: 1x 735, 3x ERJ
MIA: 1x 738, 3x 73G, 1x 733
MKE: 4x ERJ
MSN: 1x ERJ
MSP: 2x 735, 4x ERJ
MSY: 3x 735
MXP: 1x 762
MYR: 1x 735
NAS: 1x 733
NRT: 1x 777
OKC: 2x ERJ
OMA: 3x ERJ
ORD: 9x 735
ORF: 6x ERJ
OSL: 1x 752
PBI: 4x 738
PDX: 1x 752, 1x 73G
PEK: 1x 777
PHL: 2x ERJ
PHX: 4x 738
PIT: 7x ERJ
POP: 1x 738
POS: 1x 73G
PTY: 1x 738
PVD: 1x 738, 4x ERJ
PWM: 4x ERJ
RDU: 1x 735, 7x ERJ
RIC: 5x ERJ
ROC: 5x ERJ
RSW: 1x 738, 1x 733
SAN: 3x 738
SAT: 1x 733, 1x 735
SAV: 3x ERJ
SDF: 2x ERJ, 1x ER3
SDQ: 1x 753
SEA: 2x 752, 2x 738
SFO: 1x 752, 5x 738
SJC: 1x 73G
SJO: 1x 738
SJU: 1x 752, 2x 738, 1x 73G
SLC: 1x 73G
SNA: 3x 73G
SNN: 1x 752
SRQ: 1x ERJ
STI: 1x 738
STL: 1x 73G, 5x ERJ
STT: 1x 73G
SXM: 1x 73G
SYR: 4x ERJ
TLV: 2x 777
TPA: 1x 738, 4x 733
TUL: 2x ERJ
TYS: 1x ERJ, 1x ER3
XNA: 2x ERJ
YHZ: 1x 735, 3x ERJ
YOW: 3x ERJ, 1x ER3
YQB: 3x ERJ
YUL: 5x ERJ
YVR: 1x 73G
YYT: 1x ERJ
YYZ: 1x 738, 1x 73G, 1x 733, 3x ERJ
ZRH: 1x 762



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User currently offlineCslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 843 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5828 times:

I think DL wants its passengers to double and tripple to connect to JFK-exclusive destinations like ATH - Athens, NCE - Nice and VCE - Venice. First I think that DL's transborder, intercontinental and express operations at JFK doesn't fit their network well. They are reminants of DL's (and Pan-Am's) long history. I think that DL's future at JFK is an all Song operation with limited flights to major transcontinental and sun destinations. I think it would make sense for DL to "sell" or swap these route athorities, their related slots (at destination airports) and some flight equiptmemt (like B767-300ERs) to friendly competitor CO. I think that more customers would benefit by having CO operate these routes from EWR than JFK.

That is my take on the situation.



--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineDelta4eva From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5791 times:

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 11):
I think it would make sense for DL to "sell" or swap these route authorities, their related slots (at destination airports) and some flight equiptmemt (like B767-300ERs) to friendly competitor CO

Why would Delta do this??? Delta is doing just fine with their international gateway at JFK. Even without any connecting traffic, the O&D of NYC is enough. However, Delta does have many connecting opportunities with Song, Delta mainline, and Delta Connection. I have often wondered why Delta just doesn't start calling JFK a hub because of their large operation. I think in the coming years, Delta/Song will continue to build their presence at JFK.



FLY DELTA JETS
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5766 times:

Delta tried to have a full hub operation from JFK in 1999-2000. It didn't really work out all that well, but they had added MANY domestic destinations.

N


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5752 times:

Bigger isn't always better in this case. If DL does well with O&D at JFK, why would they need to add domestic feeder flights to JFK when they can feed the transatlantic flights out/in of CVG and ATL? It's all about profit, not size, and an airline can only do so much with the resources they have.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the availaiblity of slots at JFK during the peak hours when the transatlantic flights arrive and depart. It's my understanding that JFK can get very congested, but I am sure the NYC residents and airline employees can attest to the craziness of JFK when it is backed up. Anybody have any insight on the slot situation at JFK?


User currently offlineTsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5694 times:

actually a great deal of CO's business in EWR is connecting business,,,thats why they can offer flights to secondary cities in Europe such as EDI and BRS...if O&D traffic was the primary source of passengers BA/AA/DL could and would add flts to these destinations...when you can consolidate 400 plus flights to feed these smaller cities local O&D traffic is not nearly as important...

User currently offlineKkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5596 times:

Both Pan Am and TWA attempted to use JFK to feed passengers to Europe. But by the time PA and TW developed storng domestic feeder networks, airlines such as American (Chicago), Northwest (Boston and later Detroit), Delta (Atlanta), and Continetal (Newark) developed alternative gateways to Europe with much stronger connecting possibilies and the ability to avoid the infamous JFK customs agents. TWA and PA thus were primarily reliant on O&D to Europe from JFK, and these days with Continetal at EWR and US at PHL offering almost as many European options (I think Istanbul, Moscow and Athens are the only exclusive Delta cities left in Europe among US carriers) DL need not waste too much effort making JFK a major connecting facility. They do have flights from just about every major city even if they are RJ flights timed to connect with the European departures, and that is good enough.

User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5597 times:

For what it's worth, here's DL's schedule at JFK, as of 6/17/05:

AMS: 1x 763
ATH: 1x 763
ATL: 2x 763, 1x 757, 1x 738, 3x CRJ (2x Atlantic Southeast, 1x Comair)
BWI: 1x CR7 (Comair), 1x CRJ (Comair)
BCN: 1x 763
TXL: 1x 763
BOS: 6x CRJ (Comair)
BRU: 1x 763
CHS: 2x CRJ (Comair)
CLT: 1x CRJ (Atlantic Southeast)
ORD: 1x CRJ (Comair)
CVG: 1x 763, 1x 757, 3x CRJ (Comair)
CMH: 1x ERJ (Chautauqua)
DTW: 3x CRJ (Comair)
FLL: 5x 757 (Song)
RSW: 2x 757 (Song)
FRA: 1x 763
GSO: 3x CRJ (Comair)
IND: 1x CRJ (Comair)
IST: 1x 763
JAX: 3x CRJ (Comair)
LAS: 1x 757 (Song)
LAX: 7x 757 (6x Song)
SDF: 3x CRJ (Comair)
MAD: 1x 763
MLB: 2x CRJ (Comair)
MEX: 1x 757
MXP: 1x 763
SVO: 1x 763
BNA: 1x CRJ (Comair)
NAS: 1x 757 (Song)
ORF: 2x CRJ (Comair)
MCO: 5x 757 (Song)
CDG: 2x 763
PNS: 2x CRJ (Comair)
PHL: 1x CRJ (Comair)
PIT: 2x CRJ (Comair)
RDU: 3x CRJ (Comair)
FCO: 1x 763
STL: 2x CRJ (Comair)
SLC: 3x 757
SFO: 1x 763, 3x 757
SJU: 2x 757
STI: 1x 757
SDQ: 1x 763
SAV: 2x CRJ (Comair)
SEA: 2x 757
TLH: 2x CRJ (Comair)
TPA: 3x 757 (Song)
YYZ: 1x CRJ (Comair)
VCE: 1x 763
DCA: 1x 738
IAD: 1x CRJ (Comair)
PBI: 2x 757 (Song)

edited to add:
NCE: 1x 763

[Edited 2005-06-17 08:04:51]


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3133 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5515 times:

Quoting Kkfla737 (Reply 16):
(I think Istanbul, Moscow and Athens are the only exclusive Delta cities left in Europe among US carriers)

There's also Nice, France.


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5491 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 18):
Quoting Kkfla737 (Reply 16):
(I think Istanbul, Moscow and Athens are the only exclusive Delta cities left in Europe among US carriers)

There's also Nice, France.

Venice can also be added to that list.

Jeremy


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5490 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 19):
Venice can also be added to that list.

You might want to inform Bruce Lakefield that he does not run a US carrier. I was under the impression that US Airways was, in fact, based in Arlington, Virginia, which is part of the United States, and flies nonstop from Philadelphia to Venice.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4971 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5473 times:
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DL's operation at JFK is really not that shabby. In fact, if you take DL Mainline, Song, and Delta Connection together, the overall DL presence at JFK is the largest it has ever been. DL now offers nonstop service from JFK to 56 cities/airports (20 international-including YYZ, MEX- and 36 domestic-including SJU) through approx. 115 daily flights. The number of cities offered is more than any other carrier at JFK (including B6).

B6's development at JFK has helped DL tremendously as well in terms of developing JFK into a domestic-travel-friendly airport.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26128 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5466 times:

Quoting Delta4eva (Reply 12):
Delta is doing just fine with their international gateway at JFK

Delta is not really doing "just fine" at all at JFK. International operations have shrunk over the years with more and more service being shifted to Atlanta. Between 2000 and 2004, DL has reduced JFK European city pairs from 20 to 13. Domestic operations like the transcons have not worked very well and are being now being tried on Song. JFK international flights are using DL's smallest equipment type, while Atlanta has sees both larger aircraft and additional frequencies on several city pairs.

In 2004, of DL 13, European cities serviced from JFK less then 25% had positive operating margins for the company, while in comparison all but a few of the Atlanta European services had either a positive or breakeven margin for the year.

The biggest beneficiary, and possible cause of Delta slide at JFK has been Continental. The carrier has seen strong growth on Atlantic services in the last few years with multiple destinations being added from its EWR hub.

DL has floundered at JFK with several on/off attempt to grow/reduce the size of the operation. I think with DL's continued cost cutting an realignment more and more services could very well be shifted to Atlanta causing DL JFK reduce in importance in the overall network. DL is clearly being squeezed on many sides, Jetblue on Florida and transcon flying, along with CO at EWR with its domestic and particularly growing international network.
Delta has not been able to achieve positive results with either NYC O&D traffic, nor using JFK as a connecting hub for the last several years.

I know there are some strong DL fans on the a.net that dont want to admit that the last vestiges of Pan Am's European operations at JFK are no longer a crown jewel for Delta. While probably also disliked by some of the same people Atlanta is becoming the airlines international traffic hub. At least it produces some postive results for the carrier something JFK continues to fail to do.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5454 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 19):
(I think Istanbul, Moscow and Athens are the only exclusive Delta cities left in Europe among US carriers)

There's also Nice, France.

Venice can also be added to that list.

And Berlin. Though Moscow now has Atlanta service.



a.
User currently offlineNewkai From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5376 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 21):
B6's development at JFK has helped DL tremendously as well in terms of developing JFK into a domestic-travel-friendly airport.

Yep, B6 is DL (and all other trans-atlantic carriers') feeder airline at JFK! For example, DL, AA, and more used to have their subsidiaries feed people into JFK from places like Upstate NY. When B6 came along, the major's puddlejumpers became less attractive than taking a $49 flight with B6. AE and BEX stopped flying to JFK from Upstate around this time. Manually bringing over you luggage used to be a pain, but has gotten a lot easier with the SkyTrain.


25 Post contains links DAL767400ER : DL has only 5 777s available, and why they are kept at ATL has been explained here: http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/
26 FlyPNS1 : But this is exactly the problem....DL is afraid (or not able) to compete. They bailed on LAX because the competition was too strong. They bailed on D
27 EA CO AS : I was under the impression that US Airways was, in fact, based in Arlington, Virginia For the moment, yes. Soon to be Tempe, Arizona.
28 TinPusher007 : Exactly my point....DL is my favorite airline but the only place they flex any muscle is mostly ATL and its other two hubs in CVG and SLC. Everywhere
29 Padcrasher : laxintl You seem to know what is going with Delta up in JFK in the past. I would characterize it the same way...But you're going off years where Delta
30 Panamair : Actually that is not entirely true. Some of these JFK-Europe flights were simply not making money, competition or no competition. For example, you ca
31 Padcrasher : At JFK all US airlines are in a much weaker position versus their European counterparts. You just do not see one US airline being the dominant carrier
32 Klwright69 : If that is the case why didn't JFK-NRT work out? it does not bode well if DL plans on launching JFK-Asia services in the near future does it? NRT is
33 TWFirst : Maybe, maybe not. But what isn't debatable is that WHERE their operation is located IS shabby beyond belief. If getting to EWR weren't more inconveni
34 Padcrasher : That is crazy. It depends on where you at if JFK or EWR is more than convenient. EWR gets only 14% of Manhattan business. Kings/Queens/Long Island muc
35 TWFirst : No shit. That's not my point. Re-read my post. My point is, if the 2 airports were equally convenient for someone, why would they choose JFK... Delta
36 Kkfla737 : And in essence they have bailed on Orlando also. At one time Delta flew from Orlando to major cities throughout the nation, and some European destina
37 Padcrasher : If a tree fell in the woods and no one heard does it make sound? What does a this hypothetical have to do with reality? You think if JFK had better fa
38 TWFirst : You're a day late and a dollar short... you still don't get it. I'll dumb it down for you: Delta's Terminal 3 SUCKS. IT'S ABSOLUTELY AWFUL. That's rea
39 DAL767400ER : Ok, so if DL is always running away with their tail between their legs, then why did DL even set up Song to compete with JB and not just give up JFK?
40 TWFirst : By the way, I meant to say JFK T3, although T2 is just as bad.
41 TinPusher007 : I did mention that song is a formidable response to B6. ATL isn't in question...they own it. I would guess 75% of their eggs are in that basket and t
42 ORD : I like Delta but just want to clarify a few points. This is true if you include Delta Connection. But mainline is significantly lower. At its high poi
43 FlyPNS1 : And how much money is DL making? Clearly, there are times when you have to cut your losses and move on, but you also have to be willing to defend som
44 Tsnamm : However the IAT and Terminal One are state of the art and as nice as Terminal C in EWR...and I would expect AA's new terminal to also be that nice or
45 TWFirst : Irrelevant. We're talking about Delta and its operations at JFK... not other airlines' operations or their facilities at JFK. Yes, the other terminal
46 DeltaMIA : Nobody picks an airport based on terminals. They pick it based on convenience. Do you really think the business traveler is saying to him/herself tha
47 TWFirst : Bullpucky. All things being equal.... equal convenience, comparable price.... a business traveler is going to pick EWR. Why would anyone want to wait
48 TinPusher007 : Preach.....this is the best analysis of DL with respect to its operation that I've heard yet. The odd thing is that its been this way with two differ
49 RJpieces : All things being equal.... equal convenience, comparable price.... a business traveler is going to pick EWR. Sure, all things being equal. But that i
50 Laxintl : My point exactly. Atlanta grows in prominence for DL's European network while JFK has declined. JFK currently is neither able to get the proper trans
51 TWFirst : How is it possible to draw that conclusion? I think it is much more plausable to conclude that Delta's facilities costs and opportunity costs associa
52 Tsnamm : you go back and forth from DL specifically to JFK generally...my only point to you is that there are state of the art facilities at JFK, not just EWR
53 DeltaMIA : The difference with DL is that the city wanted all the money up front. B6 got a 40 year mortgage. For convenience. I said that. People won't inconven
54 DeltaMIA : The difference with DL is that the city wanted all the money up front. B6 got a 40 year mortgage. For convenience. I said that. People won't inconven
55 TWFirst : Ummmm, no. Please re-read my posts. At all points, I am specifically comparing DL's JFK Terminal 2/3 ops to CO's EWR Terminal C ops. Nowhere did I me
56 Post contains links B4real : There's really no discussion here. DL actually calls JFK a hub. http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=9748 quoting: Today marks the fir
57 JFKLGANYC : "JFK T2 looks and feels like a third world facility... undoubtedly the most confusing, cramped, ugly and dirty international terminal we have in this
58 Padcrasher : What's wrong with DL terminal at LAX?
59 TinPusher007 : Ill use your own words here... Im with Padcrasher...what on earth do you see wrong with DL's LAX facility. It is one of the most elegant terminals I'
60 DeltaMIA : Yeah I would much rather sit in NY traffic around 4pm than sit in Terminal 3. Obviously this is your opinion and I don't see anyone else on this thre
61 Apodino : Depends on what you are talking about. Certainly DL's Terminal 5 facility is among the nice parts of LAX and a pleasure to travel through. But DL also
62 TWFirst : Well, you go right ahead and sit in NY traffic... I'll take rail from Brooklyn, thank you very much.... and if it isn't rush hour, then I'll take a c
63 TinPusher007 : I have flown out of both. While the 2 to 3 gates that DL has on T6 are not as nice as T5..it too doesn't belong on that list.
64 Klwright69 : I completely agree on that! The comparison is an exaggeration.
65 Commavia : I agree -- AA's BOS terminal, on balance, isn't that bad. Granted, maybe it doesn't look as 'sleek' as some other terminals, but it is generally clea
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