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AeroMexico New B737-700 Order?  
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5217 posts, RR: 51
Posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4382 times:

I was just reviewing Skyliner-aviation.de: http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/news...D=4880ba571941d5895eee145d5ed5a4a1 and it shows AM has pending orders for 12 new Boeing 737-700s which are due for delivery between 4Q of 2007 and 1Q of 2008.

Are these then, additional 12 new Boeing 737-700s apart from the 12 new which are due to be delivered between June 05 to Dec 05? Does anyone knows who's leasing to AM this third batch?

Will this make a new projected total of 40 B737-700s in AM's fleet?

Ricardo APM


Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4221 times:

Not sure about the order but they should convert those to 737-900s. There are many routes that should get a 737-900.
MEX-LAX
MEX-NY
MEX-ATL
MEX-ORD


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7569 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4148 times:

Juventus, AM no longer flies to ORD from MEX because even though it had very good loads (thanks to incredibly low fares), it did not make a profit... the competition from UA, AA and MX (and 6A via MTY and CO via IAH) also did not help. Supposedly AM's flights to ORD were scaled down to 1 daily flight only two months per year or so (it used to be 2x daily all year-round in 2003), but I think they pulled out altogether since I did not see AM counters in ORD International Terminal when I was there in late March. Anyway, a separate thread mentions that AM might return to ORD soon but this time not from MEX but from DGO, so let's see what happens. In addition, I don't think those routes you mention (especially ORD and JFK) are good candidates for -900's from a technical perspective since MEX' temperature and altitude would restrict payload substantially (just for the record, the 752's are used to JFK always with the occassional visit of a 762ER, and ORD was served with Mad Dogs and from time to time a 73W). Maybe the 739 could be used for routes such as CUN-MIA, CUN-JFK and CUN-ATL, but definitely not MEX-JFK! Therefore, don't expect AM to order -900's any time soon.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4119 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 1):
Not sure about the order but they should convert those to 737-900s. There are many routes that should get a 737-900.
MEX-LAX
MEX-NY
MEX-ATL
MEX-ORD

I agree, maybe AM should look into the proposed 900X!

How many MD-8X's are left in the AM fleet?

Rob!


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7569 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4089 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 3):
should look into the proposed 900X!

Now that would be a better idea! AM was mentioned together with AS, Virgin Blue and a couple other carriers a long time ago (before JL expressed interest) as a potential launch customer. Would be great if all these airlines ordered it. I am sure that then Boeing would go ahead with it.

Rob, I don't know how many Mad Dogs are left but certainly the MD-88's with the new interiors will stay a long time with the fleet!



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4025 times:

If in a few years AM has a fleet comprising of only two types of aircraft, the NG737 and a few 777s, that would be fantastic. (I can't believe they pulled out of ORD completely).

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5744 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4003 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 5):
If in a few years AM has a fleet comprising of only two types of aircraft, the NG737 and a few 777s, that would be fantastic. (I can't believe they pulled out of ORD completely).

Any chance of them ordering the 787? Are they looking at it?



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3996 times:

Imagine a 787 in Aeromexico colors. WOOO..

User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3037 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
I did not see AM counters in ORD International Terminal

Thats strange, last time I was in terminal 5 in January, the AM counters were next to those of MX.

Quoting Juventus (Reply 5):
(I can't believe they pulled out of ORD completely

Aeromexico will return to ORD to fly to DGO. I'm sure AM has other plans besides DGO out of ORD.


User currently offlineBGOODAM From Mexico, joined Apr 2005, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3940 times:

Quoting Ghost77 (Thread starter):
Are these then, additional 12 new Boeing 737-700s apart from the 12 new which are due to be delivered between June 05 to Dec 05? Does anyone knows who's leasing to AM this third batch?



Quoting Ghost77 (Thread starter):
Will this make a new projected total of 40 B737-700s in AM's fleet?

Yes, these are in addition to the ones due this year. The last I heard besides the batch you mentioned, a couple of 800's (about 6) are going to join the fleet by late next year. Don't know anything about the lessor, but I imagine it will be the same one since AM already has a good history with them. Bgood.


User currently offlineN77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3918 times:

Well it would be a vast improvement, especially in takeoff performance from MEX, with B737-700's over the MD-80's.

User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5217 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3741 times:

BGOODAM,

Hopefully this new order turn out to be real! What's truly AMAZING, once again NO OFFICIAL INFO or FIESTA from AM! As for the B737-800s I've also heard the rumor and arrival for 8 due for mid 06., but still no confirmation as this third batch. But in case of true, that will make a new total of 48 B737NG's.

Fleet standarization of B737/767/777 it's on its way! A shame AM didn't went for the B717 for MD87!

Quoting N77014 (Reply 10):
Well it would be a vast improvement, especially in takeoff performance from MEX, with B737-700's over the MD-80's.

Not really! B737NG's are suffering at MEX. You should see BOS evening departure, the plane eats the entire 05R! But always nice when spotting them!

As for MD80s climb performance! Trust me, it's one of the best when out of MEX! Same thing goes for the B757s! Will certainly be missed!

Ricardo APM

[Edited 2005-06-19 21:45:46]


Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3723 times:

Quoting N77014 (Reply 10):
Well it would be a vast improvement, especially in takeoff performance from MEX, with B737-700's over the MD-80's.

Don't know the facts for sure, but as a passenger and spotter I've always felt the MD-80s had a nice performance from MEX, perhaps BGOODAM or JavoMD88 could shed some light on this.


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7569 posts, RR: 43
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3717 times:

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 8):
last time I was in terminal 5 in January, the AM counters were next to those of MX

Well, by March they were gone!

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 8):
I'm sure AM has other plans besides DGO out of ORD

I hope so, but I can't imagine which cities they would fly to/from ORD other than DGO. MEX, MTY, GDL, CUN, MLM and ZCL are served by MX, so business and ethnic travelers seem well served already. Maybe seasonal MD-87 service between ORD and SJD would work well for AM.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 6):
Any chance of them ordering the 787

I read in AM's in-flight magazine last year that AM was part of the group of airlines that gave feedback in order to help Boeing finish the design of the 787. I am sure that if all goes well for AM, they will place in a few years an order of 787's to be delivered in the middle of the next decade once all the 767ER's are gone.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
As for the B737-800s I've also heard the rumor and arrival for 8 due for mid 06

Will be great to see them flying from MEX to LAX, MIA, MTY and ATL.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
A shame AM didn't went for the B717 for MD87

Hopefully demand to the destinations served by the MD-87 in the U.S. (SAN, PHX, SLC... what else am I missing?) will grow in order to allow replacement by 73W's.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
As for MD80s... Will certainly be missed

I have only had one flight on board a 73W and I believe the Mad Dogs have greater seat pitch in coach. That and the more comfortable 2-3 config. is why they will be missed. Otherwise, it will be awesome to see AM's narrowbody fleet become all-737NG.

Quoting AM744 (Reply 12):
as a passenger and spotter I've always felt the MD-80s had a nice performance from MEX

AM744 and Ghost are right! I am not well versed in the technicalities of aircraft types but Mad Dogs have a great reputation with respect to high-altitude operations.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineBGOODAM From Mexico, joined Apr 2005, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 3611 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):
AM744 and Ghost are right! I am not well versed in the technicalities of aircraft types but Mad Dogs have a great reputation with respect to high-altitude operations.

MD-80's are great performers specially the 87's with it's thrust. The 73 suffers a little having to do a no bleed takeoff once in a while probably more than in the 80's. The last couple of hot days we have had have not really effected performance as much being able to takeoff from the left with no problem pretty much full.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
Not really! B737NG's are suffering at MEX. You should see BOS evening departure, the plane eats the entire 05R! But always nice when spotting them!

So these flights are pretty full I rekon?

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
Fleet standarization of B737/767/777 it's on its way! A shame AM didn't went for the B717 for MD87!

Liked it to for AM but then again lot's of airlines passed on it for some reason betting on the 73's or buses. Probably the fuel economy of the 73's with winglets. Don't see many 717's except for Air Tran and even they are going to the 73's. Bgood.


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7569 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3575 times:

Quoting BGOODAM (Reply 14):
So these flights are pretty full I rekon?

If the eighth weekly flight, the remarkable increase in the fares for the summer season and the comment by Ghost re the need to use the whole runway are any indication, it seems they are. Good for AM!

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
Fleet standarization of B737/767/777 it's on its way!

As for fleet standardization, I think the argument is more compelling with respect to an all-Airbus fleet than for an all-Boeing fleet. 717's do not have commonality with other types. Same thing with 737's. 757's and 767's do have commonality between the two of them. 767-400ER's have commonality with 777's. 747's do not have commonality with other types. In any case, the reason here seems to be that AM wants Boeing to see AM (one of the top 3 carriers in Latin America) as a loyal follower in order to obtain from Boeing discounts and other benefits (like Boeing picking up leases of old planes that AM wants to substitute and the like). Some months ago, before the 772ER's were ordered, an Airbus team was in Mexico trying to pitch the A340 to AM for the trans-Atlantic routes and it failed miserably. However, in the future, should Airbus come up with a plane that can attract AM based on price, range and efficiency (cost of operations) for specific routes, nothing prevents AM from doing what IB did when it chose the A346 over the 777.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5217 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3530 times:

I completely ignore LF in route or if rev is doing poor or good but increasing flights its a good signal. I also haven't heard a comment in respect of closing BOS. As for the long use of rwy, well consider it's AM's longest B737NG route plus the hour of departure which doesn't help that much for the operation.


Ricardo APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):
Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 8):
I'm sure AM has other plans besides DGO out of ORD

I hope so, but I can't imagine which cities they would fly to/from ORD other than DGO. MEX, MTY, GDL, CUN, MLM and ZCL are served by MX, so business and ethnic travelers seem well served already. Maybe seasonal MD-87 service between ORD and SJD would work well for AM.

Maybe not, because of the passengers that AM flies (not so "ethnic" as MX), also DGO get a hell of restrictions to the aircraft.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 16):
I completely ignore LF in route or if rev is doing poor or good but increasing flights its a good signal. I also haven't heard a comment in respect of closing BOS.

The loadfactor on that route goes well, but there are a lot of transits to PVR (about 45-65%, depends on the day).



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineFA4AM From Mexico, joined Nov 2004, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

Well according to AM's CFO, in a meeting held last week with employees "A dónde vamos", BOS is to be closed next month. The only flight they MIGHT keep is BOS-CUN-BOS.

No new B767 coming. MTY-MAD flights will be done scaling back flights from MEX. They had to postpone service until September due to heavy LF on current MEX-MAD flights.

No intentions to expand into ASIA. AM will focus on the east coast of USA, since MX already has the west coast. Besides DTW and IAD, AM pretends to expand charter services out of JFK, to "beaches".

More red-eyed flights are also being considered. MLM-ONT-MLM, and BJX-ONT-BJX.

AM's charter division will operate with 2 airplanes, adding 3 more in peak seasons.

AM will also expand its code shared agreements with Air Europa to MAD; as well as finally implementing reciprocal code shared agreements with KL to AMS, NW to DTW and CO to IAH and beyond.

Electronic check-in counters will also be placed in many domestic airports, besides MEX, MTY and GDL.

I guess that's all I can remember.
Greetings


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5217 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3323 times:

FA4AM,

Thank you very much for the update. Overall, I would say sad news from AM. As much as some people dislike Navega's comments, he was always right. AM IS THEN closing BOS from MEX.

What about the GDL-MAD flights? A shame to see no more 67s and AM scaling back MEX. AT least, at least DTW and IAD are in the way.

So, is charter division finally launching? Are they going to have different planes/ c/s, name?


Ricardo APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineFyano773 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 784 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3280 times:

FA4AM,

 Sad Sad news...

Thanks for the info. What about the intended 767 for AeroMExpress?

Any possible (new) European routes?

More Cripple 7s (fleet renewal - 2nd. Stage)?

Regards...

Fyano


User currently offlineWorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3223 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 7):
magine a 787 in Aeromexico colors. WOOO..

Remember that is NOT going to look the same as their standard livery. The composites on the 787 have to be painted so perhaps they will paint the fuselage gray or maybe they will do something new if they opt for the 787. American is in the same boat if they go for the 787.

WorldXplorer


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3215 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 1):
Not sure about the order but they should convert those to 737-900s. There are many routes that should get a 737-900.

A 737-900 would fall from the sky before reaching a lot of those destinations. Its really quite underpowered, and would struggle to get away from MEX with a good load.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):
I am not well versed in the technicalities of aircraft types but Mad Dogs have a great reputation with respect to high-altitude operations.

Actually no, not really. The 737 is a much better high altitude performer than the MD-80. There is a reason why DL doesn't really fly the MD-88 to/from SLC all that much.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
You should see BOS evening departure, the plane eats the entire 05R!

BOS is far. Quite far from a hot/hi airport. The reason you see M80s going out hot is because they're not traveling the same distance or with the same payload.

N


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6123 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3202 times:

The 737-900 would be an aweful plane for MX. It's in the same breath as the A321. The plane just doesn't perform well enough at high altitude airports (MEX) and in those hot temp. on top of that. Possibly a 900X with higher rated engines.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5217 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3196 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 22):
BOS is far. Quite far from a hot/hi airport. The reason you see M80s going out hot is because they're not traveling the same distance or with the same payload.

I'm not speaking of BOS being hot and high, I was referring to MEX and how bad performers B737s turn to be when flying AM's MEX-BOS at 5PM. It's hell of a long runway 05R rotation!

SLC vs MEX? 4227 feet vs 7343 feet?

AM crews (BRITMEX,JAVO,BGOOD,FA4AM) and the gang at MEX con possibly confirm that MD80s perform far better than B737s when out of MEX!

Ricardo APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
25 Gigneil : I understand what you were saying , and I addressed it specifically. MEX is hot and high, and BOS is far away from it. An M80 could not fly from MEX t
26 NASCARAirforce : Whatever happened to those flights to DTW from Hermosillo or wherever that were talked about last year? I thought DTW was supposed to see Aeromexico f
27 Ghost77 : Oh! I now totally see and get your point! You are correct, B737s perform bad but are flying out full, something impossible to do with the MD80s! OTOH
28 Post contains images Gigneil : Right N *filler*
29 Post contains images FA4AM : Well, at least now we have a new MD 83 reconfigured for 165 PAX in a one-class seating. This plane will be used mostly for flights to TUS, carrying b
30 Post contains images Ghost77 : It's getting here! A friend of mine who flew the 727s just confirmed the arrival! She's so happy she'll be back @ Mexpress despite having a bad contr
31 BGOODAM : I agree, but we do have to consider that most flag carriers around the world are loosing money BAD. Except the likes of Southwest and CO that may bre
32 Post contains images FA4AM : B757 were to be used during the first half of June. However, they decided to change it for MD. I even had the flight originally assigned with a B757.
33 EddieDude : Try boarding AM's 9:00 a.m. flight from JFK to MEX and you will be surprised by the percentage of business & leisure passengers boarding (almost 0% i
34 AR385 : I still do not understand why AM is attempting to link MTY with MAD. Ok, I know I am not in AM's management and maybe they are correct. Now that I've
35 Ghost77 : Yes, other carriers worldwide are badly loosing money, but consider the strong competition they’re facing in domestic markets, just to put an examp
36 AM001 : Ok, yeah, I agree: MX is doing things better... HOWEVER: LCC??? NOT!!! Click will never become a decent operational airline... it's just a disguised w
37 Pzurita1 : Neither do I. Considering AM network and its partners in SkyTeam, I guess CDG would do much more sense. PZ
38 WorldXplorer : With MTY being an "industrial" city, perhaps AM have identified an untapped business market. Maybe there is a strong business connection with MAD and
39 Post contains images Fly727 : I think you have a point here.... As much as I like AM, I'm honestly getting tired of this. The more time passes by and the more is being said, the d
40 Ghost77 : You got a point! And I think we all here agree Click is a joke and will certainly not be a real LCC unless many things change inside! But management
41 AR385 : I really disagree, and have, in all my previous posts since I joined this site. I don't want AM or MX to go private. I don't want a Canada thing happe
42 BGOODAM : Grat fo r you but I hate to point out the facts. 6A would probably not be what it is now if it werent for AM or Aerovias de Mexico or ASPA. Remember
43 BGOODAM : How do yuou figure you've even sayed it MX got new planes faster, approved by the counsil, got a new paint job (not that AM needs it, which by BTW lo
44 Ghost77 : BGOODAM, Yeah....... you're correct in everything! MX is the looser... thx to AeroMexico, MX is what they are now...! BTW, first MX was an ex. ATA bir
45 Ghost77 : Correction, 24 months BEFORE Aeroperu's colapse. AeroPeru only flew XA-SME later N52AW (crashed in 1996) N53AW and N592KA which none of them flew wit
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