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ASA And Delays, Cancellations, And Mishandled Bags  
User currently offlineMats From Israel, joined Jul 2003, 637 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

I was flipping through the Bureau of Transportation Statistics web site and was amazed to see that ASA Atlantic Southeast Airlines has been consistently at the top of the list for delays, cancellations, and mishandled bags.

I was wondering if this is a problem due to ASA management, Delta management, scheduling, the Atlanta hub, another hub, or a combination of factors.

Has ASA taken any efforts to improve its service?

In the past, airlines with poor rankings have instituted programs to restructure their operations to rectify problems quickly. But ASA seems to be stagnating.

This is certainly bad news for the fledgling Delta and other SkyTeam partners.

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2466 times:

ATL hub most likely has ALOT to do with the delays... as for mishandled bags how can they (or anyone) beat US after the Philly Christmas disaster?? Mind posting a link... not that I don't believe you... just would like to see the rest of the list myself.

User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2461 times:

As a recent ASA victim of an ATL ground stop, I'd say the hub has a bit to do with it.


Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 983 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2427 times:

Quoting MattRB (Reply 2):
As a recent ASA victim of an ATL ground stop, I'd say the hub has a bit to do with it.

DL usually ranks far above them...so its not all ATL although a fair amount has to do with it. T-storms play havoc with ATL in the summer...just the nature of the beast. ASA is also a very poorly managed company. The sad thing is that eventhough they have piss poor statistics...they have actually made many improvements.



"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineMats From Israel, joined Jul 2003, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2400 times:

The Bureau of Transportation Statistics (http://www.bts.gov/) produces a monthly report of delays, cancellations, mishandled bags, complaints, and many other statistics.

There are reports by airport, airline, date, and so on.


User currently offlineVgnAtl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1515 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2397 times:

I believe EV has statistically been ranked lowest of all DCI carriers for the past several months in terms of Pax Complaints, On-Time Performance, Completion and Mishandled Bags, although a lot of the performance, completion and baggage problems do stem from the ATL hub.


Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2386 times:

As an ex-EV ramper, let me throw my  twocents  in. Even though it has been close to five years since I worked there, I spent enough time working at ATL for a vendor over the last two years to see that things there were practically the same as they were when I left EV.

1. High turnover on the ramp. Even though ASA's has the second highest starting pay for rampers of the three airlines that hub there, they go through rampers even quicker than AirTran. During the Summer, it seems as though they have a new training class out there every week, and the rest of the year, every other week. When I was working out there, it was not uncommon to be working 3-4 flights at time, sometimes with only 3 or 4 guys. Turnover was so bad when I was there, I was able to get a Friday/Saturday line in the bid a few months after I got there (It took me almost a year to get the equivalent line @ FL). When you're short handed, it makes folks have to work harder, and that leads to burnout, which leads to you having a less efficient operation.

2. The gate layouts. ASA has never had an efficient gate layout for their operations, from the early days on D to the present, they've had to tailor everything to the space that they have. Not only does this present a problem for the ramp, but also for the passengers, as it has led to some confusion when boarding multiple flights out of the same gate. Other than the way they redid the gate area @ C-24, most of the gates require walking down stairs (with the exeception of those flights that go out of C-36, which has an escalator to the ramp level). With the renovations planned for C-North, the layout will be better for their operations. While the plans for the new Southside Terminal are still being developed as well as what airline(s) will use it, more than likely, Concourse C will eventually become all-Delta Connection, as the rumors have AirTran moving their operations to the new terminal. So eventually EV and OH will have things better setup for efficient operations.

3. Management. The 6 months I worked for ASA, I never even saw our Station Manager (I probably did see him, but he was a mystery for most of the ATL staff) nor too many of the higher ups in corporate (Contrast this with FL, where the Station Manager was quite visible, and it was not uncommon for execs from Orlando to be hanging around on a weekly basis.). They had supervisors that had been with the airline only a few months more than I had, they had supervisors that weren't even old enough to buy beer. You know things are bad when you have supervisors resigning to become gate agents.

4. ATL itself. Being one of the busiest airports in the world means that any problem affecting them will ripple throughout the entire US airspace. And anything affecting another major airport will be magnified @ ATL. A 10 minute shower can slow things down by 30 minutes or more. I live a few miles south of the airport, and I know when there is bad weather near there, as the planes end up flying over my neighborhood. I've seen them fly so low over my neighborhood that with a pair of binoculars you could get the registration. Geographically, the airport is in a pretty good location, it's just the weather patterns here tend to throw a wrench into things. Weather that may not be too bad for a larger a/c to fly through may be too much for a little RJ to handle, so with ATL being a DL Connection hub, they tend to be affected a little more by them, especially since they have a number of shorter flights that cruise at a lower altitude, so weather affects those flights a little more.


User currently offlineQantas777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 484 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2327 times:

I would say just fly AirTran instead. Simple, low fares, XM.

User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2250 times:

Quoting Qantas777 (Reply 7):
I would say just fly AirTran instead. Simple, low fares, XM.

Here Here


User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2231 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2196 times:
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Thank you Srbmod

I asked this same question awhile back bast on three years of records. I do seem to remember that recently EV had been mentioned as most improved carrier but was still last. The most disconcerting is the DL seems to not care or is unable to assert any corrective action. I don't know what this says about their own ship. As for working several flight with 3-4 agents, thats getting to be normal with many companies. My own does it for 3 and 4 gates of 320s, 319s and DC9s.



Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineG550 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2183 times:

Last time I was in the bag tower at ATL, the ASA position in the tower was vacant at 2 in the afternoon. According to the Delta people in the tower the person had left for the day. Maybe a possible problem for the loss of bags.

User currently offlineIslipWN From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 6):
4. ATL itself. Being one of the busiest airports in the world means that any problem affecting them will ripple throughout the entire US airspace. And anything affecting another major airport will be magnified @ ATL. A 10 minute shower can slow things down by 30 minutes or more. I live a few miles south of the airport, and I know when there is bad weather near there, as the planes end up flying over my neighborhood. I've seen them fly so low over my neighborhood that with a pair of binoculars you could get the registration. Geographically, the airport is in a pretty good location, it's just the weather patterns here tend to throw a wrench into things. Weather that may not be too bad for a larger a/c to fly through may be too much for a little RJ to handle, so with ATL being a DL Connection hub, they tend to be affected a little more by them, especially since they have a number of shorter flights that cruise at a lower altitude, so weather affects those flights a little more.

How common do you see rain in ATL, during the month of July? I am flying through there, JFK-ATL-PHF. We arrive in ATL at around 5:20 pm and I leave ATL for PHF at around 8:20 pm. I'm getting nervous that it could get cancelled or something to that extent.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2128 times:

Quoting IslipWN (Reply 11):
How common do you see rain in ATL, during the month of July?

Showers will popup somewhere in the Atlanta area just about every afternoon. Sometimes they'll popup around the airport, pass over the airport, and break up. What's odd is how storms break up once they get inside of I-285 due to all of the hot air rising from all of the concrete and asphalt. I've watched lines of storms hit the airport and just break up for a few miles then reform. I live several miles south of ATL (As the bird flies), and thought we were about to get a storm only to have it break up before it hits our house, but then a mile east, the storm reforms. ATL has at least 1 storm a week during the Summer that affects operations. They really crank up between mid-July and mid-August, at the peak of the Summer heat.


User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2096 times:

ASA does have problems and they should be held up until the problems are corrected. No improvement to a normal airline, then no planes, period and no new routes.

It seems most EV people seem to see themselves as the red-headed stepchild of Delta because they are not "Delta" employees. If thats your problem, then maybe you should apply at Delta. If you didn't get hired, there is usually a good reason for it. They feel they are ignored, so it causes them to not have the desire to work hard for the airline like at mainline. Their management and layout operatin in ATL is cramped and hardly workable. They got so bad recently, that Delta stepped in and had mainline take over transferring ASA bags, because ASA couldn't get it right. Only recently, Delta has allowed ASA to run their own local bags to the baggage carousel, but DL is still transferring bags for them. Instead of assigning carts to a flight and having them near the airplane, they just set up carts along the terminal wall and list them(ABE, TOL, BQK, etc.). No attention to flight numbers or any detail at all. So the bag drivers have no choice but to unload all their bags into one cart, and that cart may be on the other side of the terminal as the actual flight. Hopefully, with the redesigning of C Concourse for ASA(flights being parked straight in instead of 3 pulled into one gate in a pyramid formation) and the refurbishing of the concourse to make it more appealing, it will help them get their house in order.

It isn't ATL that is the problem, otherwise Delta and Airtran would have the same problems. However, when there are IROPS, it can affect ASA more than anyone else. The CRJ's do not have autoland capability, so if the pilot can't see the runway, he can't land. And if the weather is getting worse, its likely a flight will cancel before it even gets close to boarding time because of it, whereas most of the Delta flights can continue to operate.

From what I have heard with my sources at the G.O., DL is tired of the bad statistics that EV and heads are gonna roll if they do not shape up with the new concourse refurbishment.


User currently offlineKen4556 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2076 times:

I live in Albany, GA and fly ASA into Atlanta 2-3 times a month. I cannot fly another airline since ASA is the only airline to fly into Albany.

ASA has done a great job getting my bags on my flight as I have not had any problems. Also, Delta's changes to the rolling hub have really helped in keeping the flights on-time.

They did cancel one flight, but called me 7 hours before the flight to ask me how I wanted to reschedule. To me, that is customer service. How can you be upset?

So, not all gloom and doom as some posters want you to believe.


User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2035 times:

Quoting Ken4556 (Reply 14):
To me, that is customer service. How can you be upset?

Actually Ken, you have it right. ASA's problem is in ATL only. I have flown out of many ASA only stations. BQK is awesome. DHN, AVL, ILM have always been great as far as employees. Real nice and competent employees. Its just the ATL operation. Most agents there really don't seem to care, whether ramp or customer service. On the other hand, flight crews have always been great. I have only run into one ASA flight crew where there were any problems. The rest have been great. Like I said, ASA management needs to get their crap straight before ASA is given any more flights or planes. If they can't run an efficiant ATL operation as is, they can't run it with more planes.


User currently offlineKen4556 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 15):
Actually Ken, you have it right. ASA's problem is in ATL only. I have flown out of many ASA only stations. BQK is awesome. DHN, AVL, ILM have always been great as far as employees. Real nice and competent employees. Its just the ATL operation. Most agents there really don't seem to care, whether ramp or customer service. On the other hand, flight crews have always been great. I have only run into one ASA flight crew where there were any problems. The rest have been great. Like I said, ASA management needs to get their crap straight before ASA is given any more flights or planes. If they can't run an efficiant ATL operation as is, they can't run it with more planes.

Otto:

I agree with you 100%. I have been flying ASA for six years now from and to from Albany. Up until 2 years ago, ASA agents in Atlanta were the worst. I have noticed that they are getting better. But again, they could only get better! They also seem better organized in Atlanta and do a better job of keeping you updated then in the past. But I agree, still not where they should be.

Ken


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1972 times:

I flew ASA a lot when they were hubbed in DFW, and I was always very happy with their service. It was a nice alternative to AA.


Maybe their DFW operation was better than the ATL one.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
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