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AC Pilots Vote NO To 777/787  
User currently offlineLazionic From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 21 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10038 times:

Just heard that ACPA voted to no the 777/787. Apparently AC was asking for more concessions from the pilots group. Anyone have any more details?


Man who walk through airport turnstile sideways going to Bangkok.
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAlberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2920 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9878 times:

Since when can pilots affect fleet decisions?


short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9841 times:

They didn't vote no to the planes, they voted no to the contracts to fly them.

(if they did...I have not heard this, I thought the contract was approved on the 10th of June)



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineTIMEAIR From Canada, joined May 2005, 436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9754 times:

The contract was recommended for acceptance by the Union, and was to be ratified by the 19th.
Looks like the Pilots still have control over all of AC. I bet Jazz pilots wud fly the 777/787 for what AC offered mainline pilots....hmmmm...bet that wud make them..  banghead   banghead   Confused  Angry



You can't get there from here.
User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9717 times:

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 2):
I thought the contract was approved on the 10th of June)

It was accepted by the unions but the pilots probably had to ratify the agreement.



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9570 times:

As if they won't fly them when they arrive. Just a bargaining ploy.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1596 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9488 times:

I cant find any sources... not sure about this... anyone???


Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineReggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9420 times:

I found the source!!!!!

There's another article on the site that says Qatar Airways just canceled all of it's Paris Airshow orders!

 liar 


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4469 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9372 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
As if they won't fly them when they arrive. Just a bargaining ploy.

Isn't that what happened to DL with the 777? I remember reading something about a problem with the pilot's contract which restricted the airline's ability to use the 777 when it first entered the DL fleet.

Any DL folks out there who can fill us in / correct me on this?


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9049 times:

I don't think it was that N62NA. I think it was that the rates ALPA demanded to fly them were so high that Delta cancelled a few orders (or didn't exercise options) instead, as the operating costs for them were so much higher than, say, a 763.

AAndrew


User currently offlineBA777-236 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 673 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9031 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 6):
I cant find any sources... not sure about this... anyone???

Oh no!!! My worst nightmare about AC is coming true!!!  yell 

{Part of article}

MONTREAL, June 18 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada said today that it has been informed by the Air Canada Pilots Association (ACPA) that the tentative agreement on costs and other issues relating to the Boeing order has been rejected by the union membership. ACPA leadership had recommended ratification of the tentative agreement which had been negotiated with the assistance of Mediator Mr. M.G. Mitchnik. The Company accepts the pilots' decision and has notified Boeing of the order cancellation.


Is this really true? Can it be reveresed?

Is AC really destined to be an Airbus airline?  banghead 



I like British Airways! I'm not sure why, but I do! ;-)
User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8980 times:

Air Canada Notifies Boeing of Aircraft Order Cancellation Following Results of Pilot Vote

http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi...ey=1306183496&view=13213-0&Start=0



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8894 times:

Very disappointing.

While it may sound far-fetched to some of you, I would not be surprised if the French government and their sympathizers in Canada are in the distant background helping a "no" vote along. As this deprives the 787 of an important customer, it helps Airbus immensely which the French consider their own.


User currently offlineSEAPlane10 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8873 times:

Quoting BA777-236 (Reply 10):
Is AC really destined to be an Airbus airline?

Was this a definitive and immediate intent if the order fell through?

If I remember correctly, and that is a big if (I do not have any quotable sources), that Air Canada would start going through the used-aircraft market before attempting to secure another order for new aircraft.

Regards


User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8865 times:

Quoting N79969 (Reply 12):
While it may sound far-fetched to some of you, I would not be surprised if the French government and their sympathizers in Canada are in the distant background helping a "no" vote along. As this deprives the 787 of an important customer, it helps Airbus immensely which the French consider their own.

I can't imagine the pilots would want less money for a larger 350. Something fishy going on.


User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8847 times:

Quoting N79969 (Reply 12):
While it may sound far-fetched to some of you, I would not be surprised if the French government and their sympathizers in Canada are in the distant background helping a "no" vote along. As this deprives the 787 of an important customer, it helps Airbus immensely which the French consider their own.

You got it all wrong dear. Pilots did not vote agaisnt Boeing; They voted against the financial conditions proposed (or imposed) to them.

For instance, the 773ER will (I say will because this is just a bluff IMO) seat a good 50 pax more than the current 333/343 and pilots and AC management were reportedly having different views about wages deserved for this aircraft type.

Nothing more, nothing less...



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineZoom1018 From Taiwan, joined May 2005, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8742 times:

so one day when those stupid greedy pilots realise how far they are lagged behind with those ageing planes and hence affects AC's operations, which may put AC down further instead of becoming a real player in north america, then they know they lose.

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8729 times:

>> Was this a definitive and immediate intent if the order fell through?

It was an intent to order, the aircraft never showed up on Boeing's order tally. The plan was to sign the firm order around September-ish.

>> Is AC really destined to be an Airbus airline?

Not if Milton can do anything about it...  Wink


User currently offlineBA777-236 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 673 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8714 times:

Quoting SEAPlane10 (Reply 13):

If I remember correctly, and that is a big if (I do not have any quotable sources), that Air Canada would start going through the used-aircraft market before attempting to secure another order for new aircraft.

That's true.

But if the pilot unions don't like the wages for new Boeing's, it'll be the same for older ones.

Not speaking about the 763's, as those would've stated until 2010 anyway. But more the A330/A340's.

It's now likely (if this is all true) that AC would just buy some used Airbus planes instead  cry 



I like British Airways! I'm not sure why, but I do! ;-)
User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8686 times:

Quoting BA777-236 (Reply 18):
But if the pilot unions don't like the wages for new Boeing's, it'll be the same for older ones.

Not speaking about the 763's, as those would've stated until 2010 anyway. But more the A330/A340's.

If AC acquires more 333/343/763, why would wages be an issue here?



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8640 times:

this is so LAME...as I was ready to see some Beautiful Boeing 777's in AC colours...

nice of them to shoot themselves in the foot... butthead 

now they are going

Quoting N79969 (Reply 12):
As this deprives the 787 of an important customer, it helps Airbus immensely which the French consider their own.

i doubt that Airbus will offer AC similar size aircraft of the ones cancelled and AC accepts it.........if that happened, then something REALLY messed up is happening.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8609 times:

>> this is so LAME...as I was ready to see some Beautiful Boeing 777's in AC colours...

That's why I save press-release photos the second they are posted.  Wink


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8573 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 21):

That's why I save press-release photos the second they are posted. Wink

I might join you on that!!

I wonder if they are going to go for some used A345's and A330's now to supplement their fleet...

[Edited 2005-06-19 05:45:50]


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineBA777-236 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 673 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8508 times:

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 19):
If AC acquires more 333/343/763, why would wages be an issue here?

They wouldn't. But I don't see many spare 767's out there (unless I'm mistaken).

So it would just be more Airbus.

Not that I dislike Airbus as whole, but I was really looking forward to those 777's.



I like British Airways! I'm not sure why, but I do! ;-)
User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8476 times:

Quoting BA777-236 (Reply 23):
They wouldn't. But I don't see many spare 767's out there (unless I'm mistaken).

So it would just be more Airbus.

Dunno about that. Haven't seen many second-hand 333/343s available lately too.

[Edited 2005-06-19 06:09:59]


E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 25, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 8443 times:

While this thread was definitely the first one on the topic, and hasn't done anything bad to 'deserve' to be locked, I think it's best that discussion shift to the more recent thread, since it begins with the definitive announcement of AC's cancellation of the order, and therefore starts from a slightly better (clearer) place for those just joining the discussion. So, I will archive this thread now. Thanks for your understanding.


Next flight.... who knows.
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