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Europe To Asia Over The North Pole  
User currently offlineGrimey From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 459 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11141 times:

Why don't airlines fly over the North Pole from Europe to Asia, I know United fly over it on New York to China. Would it be quicker for the likes of BA to fly over it when doing LHR - HKG. Can airplanes handle the cold up there or does it matter?

Thanks
Grimey

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11074 times:

Quoting Grimey (Thread starter):
Would it be quicker for the likes of BA to fly over it when doing LHR - HKG.

Probably not. The shortest geographical route between LHR and HKG isn't over the Pole. It's along the Baltic Sea, into Russia, over Siberia and into China, then to Hong Kong.

The shortest route from JFK to HKG, however, is over the Pole - the polar routes prove their worth on North American-Asian routes, not European-Asian ones.


User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11066 times:

CO also frequently flies over the north pole during their EWR-HKG flight.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3713 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11060 times:

Quoting Grimey (Thread starter):
Can airplanes handle the cold up there or does it matter?

 rotfl 



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10997 times:

rotfl

I wouldn't laugh so fast:

Are Fuel Tanks Heated? (by Singel09 Feb 20 2005 in Tech Ops)

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2977 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10961 times:

Flights from Japan to/from Europe go the farthest north, but this is just skirting the Russian Artic Ocean coastline. Most Europe to Asia flights go much more southerly because that's the shortest distance. With the exception of Beijing, Osaka, Tokyo, and Seoul, major Asian cities are at southerly latitudes.

User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7632 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10879 times:

So, for example, CPH-PEK is a trans-polar route?


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineWdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10870 times:

Didn't UAL... while flying that JFL-HKG flight... while flying over the northpole have the pilots fly the flight by hand at the pole due to the fact it went almost directly over the actual north pole and would make the Autopilot go wack?

User currently offlineZeekiel From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10844 times:

QF for a while (and still do I think) flew the Silk Road route.

On the SIN or BKK-LHR sectors, they tend to travel towards India, Dubai, through Iran and Turkey. At least the ones I have been on. Sometimes even over Pakistan or Afghanistan. The time spent through these countries is quite lengthy and there are turns and zig zagging over certain countries.

The Silk Road routes flies more northerly over the mountain ranges towards Europe.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 5):
Flights from Japan to/from Europe go the farthest north, but this is just skirting the Russian Artic Ocean coastline

The North Pole is not really a factor in flying say NRT-LHR. Although they fly a very northerly track as mentioned skirting along the Arctic Ocean.

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 7):
due to the fact it went almost directly over the actual north pole and would make the Autopilot go wack?

When you fly near the poles (North or South) the error distance between you and the pole increases. Thus it is more accurate or in the old sense to reset the grid towards the other pole. At least that's what I read in a book about NZ's sightseeing trips to the South Pole. Even then that's a pretty vague explanation as I can't find this damn book.

Cheers

Zeekiel


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21580 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10832 times:

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 7):
Didn't UAL... while flying that JFL-HKG flight... while flying over the northpole have the pilots fly the flight by hand at the pole due to the fact it went almost directly over the actual north pole and would make the Autopilot go wack?

it's not the magnetic pole, it's the rotational axis. at the north pole, the instruments are already compensating to indicate north, so I don't see why flying over it would send everything into a tizzy.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5869 posts, RR: 39
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10829 times:

all 3 times i've been from Japan to Europe and VV have gone very far north on departure from Tokyo, last one i did we left Nrt on 34L then made a right turn heading north for about 80mins then making a left turn to the west, ended up as mentioned skirting along the arctic ocean then turning towards mainland europe when we were over Scandinavia, interestingly we approached Germany from the North to the South then into Frankfurt, flying over Hamburg and a few of the Northern towns rather than coming over from the east to west which usually flew over Poland.


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9735 posts, RR: 31
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10756 times:

Since Russia opened its air routes via Siberia, this shortest route from Europe to the Far East is used.

Befoere that, flights had to go via Alaska or "around". Typical routings were FRA via KHI/BKK/HKG to TYO and FRA/ANC/TYO. That was about up until 20/25 years ago.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10628 times:

Quoting Backfire (Reply 1):
Probably not. The shortest geographical route between LHR and HKG isn't over the Pole. It's along the Baltic Sea, into Russia, over Siberia and into China, then to Hong Kong.

Check out fastest way by Great Circle Mapper.

LHR-HKG%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=" target=_blank>http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=L...E=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=

From To Distance
LHR (51°28'39"N 00°27'41"W) HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) 5994 mi

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 6):
So, for example, CPH-PEK is a trans-polar route?


User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10581 times:

Wasn't there some restriction on overflying the country of Tibet? Mountains, lack of navaids, lack of ATC maybe? There was a mention some time ago of a new airway which only certain aircraft or airlines were allowed to use. Flying LON to BKK overflies part of Tibet if you fly direct (though, as already mentioned, you do tend to zig zag a little, especially around the -stan countries it seems).

Geoff M.


User currently onlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6054 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10562 times:

You really have to go back to the cold war days, before flying (almost) via the north pole from europe to Japan. SAS pioneered the route, flying via Greenland, Canada & Alaska between Copenhagen & Tokyo with their DC-6B's & DC-7's.

User currently offlineCHI787ORD From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 561 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10424 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 2):
CO also frequently flies over the north pole during their EWR-HKG flight

The UA ORD-DEL will fly over the north pole as well.


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10395 times:

Any of these routes ARN - NRT, ARN - ICN, HEL - ICN, HEL - NRT, HEL - KIX are at least partly over the North Pole?


I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineKilljoy From Finland, joined Dec 1999, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10316 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
Typical routings were FRA via KHI/BKK/HKG to TYO and FRA/ANC/TYO.



Quoting CPH-R (Reply 14):
You really have to go back to the cold war days, before flying (almost) via the north pole from europe to Japan. SAS pioneered the route, flying via Greenland, Canada & Alaska between Copenhagen & Tokyo with their DC-6B's & DC-7's.

Finnair flew HEL-NRT nonstop around the Soviet Union using a DC-10-30ER in the eighties.

I was going to add a link to http://gc.kls2.com but the airliners.net acronym script sucks so badly that it tries to insert tags into links. Too much trouble to work around it  Sad


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