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AA Increase MIA-GIG; Reduces DFW-GRU  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4466 times:

As expected, American Airlines will reduce Dallas-Sao Paulo to add more Miami-Rio de Janeiro service this winter. This past month, AA reduced MIA-GIG to fly more DFW-GRU service. Though, during the busy winter travel period to Rio de Janeiro, those frequencies will transfer back to MIA-GIG. The seasonal service is scheduled to run between 15 December 2005 and 28 February 2006. While American Airlines would like to run both flights on a year-round basis, they can't under the strict and outdated US-Brazil air treaty. Until then, rumours are that AA will operate DFW-GRU at 10x weekly and MIA-GIG and 9x weekly next summer, instead of DFW-GRU 12x weekly/MIA-GIG 7x weekly that we have right now.

AA 2919 MIA 2035-0801 GIG 763 xMoSu
AA 2980 GIG 2355-0519 MIA 763 xMoTu

Not sure why the weird flight numbers. Probably just temporary. Also, the extra DFW-GRU flights are still in the res systems with the extra MIA-GIG flights, but they will be taken out soon.

The largest US carrier to Brazil, AA also offers three daily flights between Miami and Sao Paulo and daily service between New York City and Rio de Janeiro via Sao Paulo. They are also planning on seeking exemptions to expand their US-Brazil service.


a.
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4341 times:
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MAH4546, Good news for GIG even seasonal.
In fact it's expected that AA realocate frequencies for the AA980 (same number as last year) from GRU-DFW. At the same time, GIG could take up to 14 frequencies to MIA (RG will start a seasonal service to MIA on july) and demand keeps strong (AA904/905 daily flight GIG-MIA performs better in Biz than the others AA MIA flights) as Rio is winning several congress and seminars for the next years (for example Rio will receive more than 300 top executives from FAA and other regulators during a single week on july).

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4269 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
RG will start a seasonal service to MIA on july

Varig's seasonal service is only for four weekends in July for the increased amount of Brazilians that come to Miami on vacation.



a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4254 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
Varig's seasonal service is only for four weekends in July for the increased amount of Brazilians that come to Miami on vacation.

You're right MAH4546 but i expect high loads on this flights (operated only on fridays, satudays and sundays), in order that RG can keep with them after july. Rio keeps needing additional non stop international flights to everywhere.

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4067 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
American Airlines will reduce Dallas-Sao Paulo to add more Miami-Rio de Janeiro service this winter.

It makes sense and AA now will have to compete with DL daily ATL-GIG flight starting in November.

As you said, I hope the new bilateral US-Brazil becomes operational very soon.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 3886 times:
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The info given into system nowadays shows that all frequencies (5) of the second GRU-DFW will be relocated to MIA-GIG seasonal service as AA system shows flights from WED to SUN.
In fact last year AA980 performed very well and as Hardi said, DL can take advantage (DL advised that 50% of the flight will be sold to Rio users of GRU flights) of the little offer of non stop flights from GIG to US.

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineErikwilliam From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 3873 times:

it´s way better to fly AA then DL.
Other thing, to flights to MIA, AA is ahead of DL, cause pax tend not to like to connect, and if MIA is final destination....
Could that become a regular flight?
Latin Pop in Miami could have a new gateway to Brasil, specially for Brasilians living there, like a touristic destination. Or the DFW-GRU flights are more profitble than MIA-GIG?



Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3773 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 6):
Could that become a regular flight?
Latin Pop in Miami could have a new gateway to Brasil, specially for Brasilians living there, like a touristic destination. Or the DFW-GRU flights are more profitble than MIA-GIG?

Erik, Rio is a strong market for AA. Biz class of AA904 performs so good that every thr/fri/sat it's all sold before Y. Also Rio is the biggest O&D market in Brazil for congress and seminars (in fact top on Latin America) which means every week more than 300 executives discussing something. I think AA, if they have access to more slots, they can keep AA980 during all the year. DFW-GRU is very profitable for AA but seems that the new frequencies corrupted a little their yields (i really think if the flight is high yield AA never stop the service, even during summer season so the second GIG-MIA is more profitable than the second GRU-DFW). Brazilians preffers to connect thru Miami as you stated. Also GIG offer AA connections to VIX, CNF and BSB.

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24310 posts, RR: 47
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3740 times:

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 6):
Or the DFW-GRU flights are more profitble than MIA-GIG?

From having done a route study which included traffic and profitability results on behalf of another carrier I can share the following. In 2004 on a stand alone flight basis, JFK-GRU followed by DFW-GRU, MIA-GIG and finally MIA-GRU were the order of AA's Brazil flight profitablility. Overall however MIA-GRU is #1 in profitability as a route due to its sheer volume in traffic. The JFK route is unique as unlike the others is primarily a O&D market with little beyond traffic.

If you would like to bring in other airlines to the discussion, CO interestingly outperforms yield wise AA on its Texas service (GRU-IAH), while AA beats CO on its New York City service. Delta has done quite well on its ATL-GRU service, while United's IAD-GRU out performs its Chicago flight, while IAD keeps up relatively well in comparsion to other Northeast services via AA and CO in New York.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3731 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 8):
CO interestingly outperforms yield wise AA on its Texas service (GRU-IAH),

Let me guess, Petrobras and Halliburton?


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3720 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 8):
The JFK route is unique as unlike the others is primarily a O&D market with little beyond traffic.

Too true -- a license to print money, as they say.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 8):
If you would like to bring in other airlines to the discussion, CO interestingly outperforms yield wise AA on its Texas service (GRU-IAH), while AA beats CO on its New York City service.

Not surprising. Not only does CO have the oil traffic, but I think AA also draws far more low-yielding, western-originating/destined connections than CO and IAH because of AA's shere presence in the US-Brazil market overall. AA sends lower-yielding connections over DFW if they can to protect MIA.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24310 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3654 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 9):
Let me guess, Petrobras and Halliburton?

Could be. I am not privy to Continentals corporate accounts.

The strong success of the IAH-GRU service explains why CO uses the larger 764 on the IAH route while using a smaller 762 from EWR. On the surface one would think New York especially with CO's well establish EWR hub would be the more successful of the two services.

While on the subject, I am not sure why, however CO seems to have failed on deep South America routes from Newark. EWR-GIG, EWR-SCL have been discontinued while it never started the awarded EWR-EZE service. Instead this spring the airline did apply for IAH-EZE service using a 762.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3642 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 9):
Let me guess, Petrobras and Halliburton?

I dont think so. Petrobras HQ is based in GIG and not GRU (although CO's flight runs to GIG with a stop-over in GRU: IAH-GRU-GIG). I dont know why CO does not operate the oil route: IAH-GIG nonstop.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11):
The strong success of the IAH-GRU service explains why CO uses the larger 764 on the IAH route while using a smaller 762 from EWR

EWR-GRU with the B764 has performance problems, and the B763 (not part of CO fleet) would be the perfect aircraft for this market. CO tried in the past the B764 on the EWR-GRU market.

As you said, the IAH flight is a success due to GRU and not GIG [although CO runs a mine hub in GRU where EWR pax connect on the CO flight GRU-GIG which originates in IAH. This connection is running quite fine, and is very efficient. Both CO a/c park side by side in GRU].

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 8):
From having done a route study which included traffic and profitability results on behalf of another carrier I can share the following. In 2004 on a stand alone flight basis, JFK-GRU followed by DFW-GRU, MIA-GIG and finally MIA-GRU were the order of AA's Brazil flight profitablility. Overall however MIA-GRU is #1 in profitability as a route due to its sheer volume in traffic

Interesting information. However, I dispute the fact that MIA-GRU is the most profitable. It is reported that AA's most profitable route out of JFK is JFK-GRU [of course, other routes, such as LHR, could generate more revenue, but GRU is the most profitable, with First and Biz Class performing astonishingly well].

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 8):
The JFK route is unique as unlike the others is primarily a O&D market with little beyond traffic.

Correct, and the type of the demand is typically very, very high yeilding, as I stated above. AA is not interested in onward connection for the JFK flight - for this AA uses DFW and MIA. JFK is a dedicated, B777, O&D market.

Rgs,

[Edited 2005-06-22 11:54:32]

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3582 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
However, I dispute the fact that MIA-GRU is the most profitable.

It is.

It is very easy to see why.

One JFK-GRU flight may bring in $100,000 in profit.

One MIA-GRU flight brings in, maybe, $60,000 in profit. But then you mutliply that by three---$180,000.

And JFK-LHR definitley brings in more overall profit for AA than JFK-GRU. Maybe not on a per-flight basis, but overall, it definitely does. The number of full-paid F-class seats on JFK-LHR is the highest in the AA system.



a.
User currently offlineErikwilliam From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3558 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Also GIG offer AA connections to VIX, CNF and BSB.

and with JJ improving it´s presence there will be even better.

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 9):
Let me guess, Petrobras and Halliburton?

not only, meat and others might be on the table. Also Texas has the 2nd or 3rd biggest brasilian population in the US.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11):
CO seems to have failed on deep South America routes from Newark. EWR-GIG, EWR-SCL have been discontinued while it never started the awarded EWR-EZE service

maybe they could do as LH, send two planes, and after, it goes to SCL and EZE.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
One MIA-GRU flight brings in, maybe, $60,000 in profit. But then you mutliply that by three---$180,000.

why 3, are you counting JJ code-share with it?

let´s not forget that JJ/AA have a code-share, and JJ to MIA does extremely fine. I just don´t know why JJ ended it´s code share with AF/KL to CDG, as they seem to be doing pretty fine, even adding a flight.



Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8868 posts, RR: 40
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3526 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 9):
Let me guess, Petrobras and Halliburton?

I dont think so. Petrobras HQ is based in GIG and not GRU (although CO's flight runs to GIG with a stop-over in GRU: IAH-GRU-GIG). I dont know why CO does not operate the oil route: IAH-GIG nonstop.

On the other hand, you could explain the routing as trying to capture some GRU destined pax that would otherwise had been captured by AA out of DFW. As for the GIG destined pax, they would rather take a direct (not non-stop) via GRU with CO than have to connect in MIA + GRU. That way CO get's the GRU pax and the GIG pax, simple case of simply not having a better option. Smart move by CO in IMHO.

Cheers,
PPVRA

[Edited 2005-06-22 20:00:32]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24310 posts, RR: 47
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3487 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
It is.

It is very easy to see why.

One JFK-GRU flight may bring in $100,000 in profit.

One MIA-GRU flight brings in, maybe, $60,000 in profit. But then you mutliply that by three---$180,000.

MAH4546 has it right.
What I was trying to say was that on a single flight basis GRU-JFK was more profitable(higher margin) for AA, however as an overall route GRU-MIA was was a bigger money maker due to the frequency on the route.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3466 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Maybe not on a per-flight basis



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 16):
What I was trying to say was that on a single flight basis GRU-JFK was more profitable(higher margin) for AA

I also agree with MAH4546, however, my argument still holds true: JFK-GRU is AA's most profitable intercontinental route out of JFK. This is a fact. The flight is also focused on O&D pax, with connecting pax using MIA and DFW instead.

Rgs,


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3423 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
JFK-GRU is AA's most profitable intercontinental route out of JFK. T

On a per flight basis, yes.

On a total basis, no. JFK-LHR is. There is no way that one JFK-GRU flight makes more money than six JFK-LHR flights, which also rely heavily on O&D traffic. While JFK-LHR is a competitive markets, it is one of few where people still buy a lot of full F and J fares.



a.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3417 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
On a total basis, no. JFK-LHR is. There is no way that one JFK-GRU flight makes more money than six JFK-LHR flights, which also rely heavily on O&D traffic. While JFK-LHR is a competitive markets, it is one of few where people still buy a lot of full F and J fares.

Absolutely right. No one is disputing that JFK-GRU, that single 777 flight, is extremely profitable, and perhaps the most profitable single JFK flight. However, on a route basis, JFK-LHR -- with six daily 777s almost certainly brings in more profits than a single JFK-GRU flight does. And, as MAH said, JFK-LHR is always packed with F and J tickets because of the unbelievable amount of high-yielding business traffic between these two cities.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3398 times:

I will repeat: JFK-GRU is the most profitable fliight out of JFK. I am completely confident with my statement, and this does not contradict both of the previous posts. But my statement is correct.

As I said in reply 12 (please read again), of course, JFK generates more revenue, but JFK-GRU is AA's most profitable flight out of JFK. This is a fact.

Rgs,


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3385 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 20):
I will repeat: JFK-GRU is the most profitable fliight out of JFK.

You're not repeting anything. You used the term route, not flight.

It's right here, in context.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
Interesting information. However, I dispute the fact that MIA-GRU is the most profitable. It is reported that AA's most profitable route out of JFK is JFK-GRU [of course, other routes, such as LHR, could generate more revenue, but GRU is the most profitable, with First and Biz Class performing astonishingly well].


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3357 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
I dont think so. Petrobras HQ is based in GIG and not GRU (although CO's flight runs to GIG with a stop-over in GRU: IAH-GRU-GIG). I dont know why CO does not operate the oil route: IAH-GIG nonstop.



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
As you said, the IAH flight is a success due to GRU and not GIG [although CO runs a mine hub in GRU where EWR pax connect on the CO flight GRU-GIG which originates in IAH. This connection is running quite fine, and is very efficient. Both CO a/c park side by side in GRU].

That's why everyone using CO IAH-GRU-GIG tells that most pax come to Rio. This is an O&D oil flight. The 764 arrive from GIG with more than 60% pax inside and most Biz positions fully. Why they don't change ? How they can operate EWR for GIG users ? As Hardi said, CO's operates very well the two flights.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 8):
In 2004 on a stand alone flight basis, JFK-GRU followed by DFW-GRU, MIA-GIG and finally MIA-GRU were the order of AA's Brazil flight profitablility

So we can say that the second flight may corrupted yield for DFW-GRU ? Or even GIG service in brazilian summer is a good yield flight ?

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3353 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
he 764 arrive from GIG with more than 60% pax inside and most Biz positions fully

Those people aren't all coming from Houston. A good half of them, sometimes more, are coming from Newark. The traffic isn't there to fill IAH-GIG non-stop. It is there that the EWR and IAH flights can profitablly feed into the GRU-GIG connection.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):

So we can say that the second flight may corrupted yield for DFW-GRU

Yes, it most likely did.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
Or even GIG service in brazilian summer is a good yield flight ?

Yields on USA-GIG in the summer are traditionally very weak. AA performs well because they are the only non-stop carrier, but when there was more compietition, yields really suffered.



a.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3356 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
Yes, it most likely did.

If you ask me, AA should have applied for the additional weekly Brazil frequencies for LAX-GRU. I think AA could do well on the route because while RG already serves it, AA could use AA as a nexus between GRU/GIG and NRT, KIX, TPE, HKG, SYD, SEA, PDX, YVR, etc. with AA and codeshare flights.

It would free up seats on DFW-GRU, preserve and protect that flight's yields, and would open up a new market for AA on both ends that currently has only 4 weekly flights from RG. I think 3-4 weekly 763 flights on AA would be a success.


25 BigGSFO : I agree that an LAX-GRU would be successful for AA 3-4 times weekly. Maybe a LAX-LIM-GRU for the other days could make it a daily non-stop/direct serv
26 MAH4546 : That is what DFW is used for. Not as extensive a list of destinations (i.e. no DFW-TPE/HKG), but a lot of the higher yielding traffic on AA's GRU-DFW
27 MAH4546 : Routes between the US and Brazil are no longer on a city-to-city basis. If you have a frequency to fly between the US and Brazil, it can be between a
28 LipeGIG : When i said ARRIVE from, read as DEPARTs (sorry). Sorry but i can't agree with you. I can show to you 40 to 100 oil companies and related activities,
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