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CO, NW, DL To Start US-India Flights  
User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 day ago) and read 8226 times:

Continental plans to start the first nonstop flights between the USA and India.

Continental is planning the first-ever non-stop flight between the countries. Delta and Northwest are planning new connecting flights, and at least three India-based carriers are expected to add service.

Beginning on Oct. 31, Continental's non-stop will link Newark, N.J., and New Delhi. The flight will take about 13 hours, saving passengers at least three hours.

• In May, Delta launched service from New York John F. Kennedy to Chennai, via Paris. Delta also has direct flights between JFK to Mumbai (formerly Bombay), connecting in Europe.

• Northwest on Oct. 30 will launch a daily flight between Seattle and Bangalore, via Amsterdam. It already flies from Minneapolis to Mumbai, via Amsterdam.

• Air India, India's national airline, is considering expanding into cities such as San Francisco and Houston or Dallas. It now flies into New York, Newark, Chicago and Los Angeles. Private carriers Jet Airways and Air Sahara also are planning service.

Setting the stage: A U.S.-Indian agreement signed in April easing rules that hampered service. Now, airlines have "maximum flexibility to serve wherever they want, whenever they want and charge whatever prices they want," says Karan Bhatia at the U.S. Department of Transportation. Ailing U.S. carriers are banking on international expansion for profits. The airlines see big possibilities from the increase in high-end business travelers related to the outsourcing of service-sector jobs from the USA.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-06-20-air-india-usat_x.htm

[Edited 2005-06-21 18:43:22]

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5064 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day ago) and read 8186 times:

Has AA looked into starting service to India?

User currently offlineAhlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1339 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day ago) and read 8178 times:

Well, India does seem to be the new big thing. Indian airlines stole the show at Paris with huge orders, and I really do hope the country develops fast enough to provide all that demand.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day ago) and read 8171 times:

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 1):
Has AA looked into starting service to India?

If they were going to (which I doubt they are), it would probably be routed ORD/JFK-BRU-BOM. However, I doubt we'll see this any time soon as AA is desperately short of 767 and 777 capacity right now and has no aircraft to spare. Besides, with the rush of capacity into India in the next 6-12 months (new flying by CO, DL, NW, BA, VS, and BD), average yields will likely drop on flights from India to the West at least a bit.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 8070 times:

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 1):
Has AA looked into starting service to India?

AA has applied for slots at both DEL and BOM to commence nonstop service from ORD in the W05 season. Of course, this does not mean that they will actually fly the route but it leaves the door open for them to do so if they choose to.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4878 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 8047 times:

With all this SkyTeam action between US and India...does anyone think the next SkyTeam carrier will be from India?

Seems like a safe bet that AI or Jet may be asked to join.



Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6658 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 8007 times:

Well, it's about time the Indian government unshackled airlines, reduced the tax burden and opened up the skies. Good to see this kind of growth and development.

I think an Indian carrier would be a good fit into Skyteam, if only for the obvious geographic and marketing gap that presently exists. I believe Jet Airways already codeshares with NW, but I don't know if that would give them an advantage or not as I don't know how integrated or close they are.

Nevertheless, that does offer good opportunity. The EWR-DEL service is going to be a monstrous challenge from a logistical, payload, flight ops standpoint. A whopper.


User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2868 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 7967 times:

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 4):
AA has applied for slots at both DEL and BOM to commence nonstop service from ORD in the W05 season

Does the 777-200ER has the capability to perform the route of ORD-BOM without any payload restrictions


User currently offlineSchipholjfk From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 7913 times:

Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
Nevertheless, that does offer good opportunity. The EWR-DEL service is going to be a monstrous challenge from a logistical, payload, flight ops standpoint. A whopper.

Why? Please explain further. Thanks!



The fun of flying... love it !!!
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4091 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 7901 times:

Anyone else think UA might try to start that ORD-DEL service they had planned before 9/11?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 22 hours ago) and read 7775 times:

Don't be surprised to see American Airlines in India by the end of 2006. It is a priority for them. They may not have many spare aircraft lying around, but, just like Continental, they aren't going to let that stop them. Some clever aircraft scheduling can solve that.


a.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 22 hours ago) and read 7727 times:

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 7):
Does the 777-200ER has the capability to perform the route of ORD-BOM without any payload restrictions

ORD-BOM is a stretch, especially with the mountains.

A United 772ER couldn't do it.

N


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 7698 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Don't be surprised to see American Airlines in India by the end of 2006. It is a priority for them. They may not have many spare aircraft lying around, but, just like Continental, they aren't going to let that stop them. Some clever aircraft scheduling can solve that.

While I'll believe it when I see it, it is interesting and exciting to hear that. MAH, what would the routing be? Would it indeed be ORD/JFK-BRU-BOM, or something else?


User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 7667 times:

Hasn't there been talk about a new UA service to India (BOM I think)??

Good to see CO starting DEL, will they look at BOM in the future?

Man, CO really need some new birds!

Rob!


User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 7638 times:

Yes - I find it amusing that a couple of years ago, most american carriers thought that flying within the continguous states, to london and one or two cities in south and central america was the be all end all of existence.
My, how times have changed!


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 7625 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 12):

While I'll believe it when I see it, it is interesting and exciting to hear that. MAH, what would the routing be? Would it indeed be ORD/JFK-BRU-BOM, or something else?

I've been told it would be Brussels-Bombay or Brussels-Chennai, getting feed from the existing O'Hare and JFK flights and the proposed Miami flight.



a.
User currently offlineWorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 7583 times:

Gigneil,

What ever happened to the AI thoughts on DEN that you were talking about. I assume the agreement with UA (in which AI has the upperhand) is still effective?

WorldXplorer

(PS- I may have that wrong, maybe it was ConcordeBoy that was talking about that)


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 7576 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
I've been told it would be Brussels-Bombay or Brussels-Chennai, getting feed from the existing O'Hare and JFK flights and the proposed Miami flight.

I can't imagine AA would fly to MAA over BOM or DEL. The latter two are so much bigger with so much more U.S. traffic.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 7562 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 17):
I can't imagine AA would fly to MAA over BOM or DEL. The latter two are so much bigger with so much more U.S. traffic.

Yields, less compietition, Madras' very wealthy population base, and the large market between Brussels and Madras (Sabena actually flew BRU-MAA in the 1990s, during which they didn't fly to any other Indian cities). Delta flies to Madras over Delhi.



a.
User currently offlineWorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 7552 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 17):
I can't imagine AA would fly to MAA over BOM or DEL. The latter two are so much bigger with so much more U.S. traffic.

MAA may offer a higher yield due it being a niche market.

WorldXplorer


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 7516 times:

For those of you keeping score at home:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Delta flies to Madras over Delhi.

Madras=Chennai/Meenambakkam

Speaking of India...
What is the Government doing in regards to matching ATC capacity to demand?
All we hear about are aircraft orders, but nothing about infrastructure improvements.

I know this has been mentioned somewhere...but what route does Kingfisher intend to utilize the A380 on? (too lazy to look when I know one of you guys can spit it out in a coupla'seconds!)



Delete this User
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2868 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 7502 times:

I think AA should go the other way and offer something on the basis like,

ORD-NRT-BOM
or
LAX-HKG-BOM

Both NRT and HKG are unserved with non-stop flights from BOM, and this would be a good alternative than the normal Europe routing.

As said above MAA could also be served instead of BOM on the same routings


User currently offlineSshank From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 7455 times:

Yields, less compietition, Madras' very wealthy population base, and the large market between Brussels and Madras (Sabena actually flew BRU-MAA in the 1990s, during which they didn't fly to any other Indian cities). Delta flies to Madras over Delhi.

I have always wondered what ever made Sabena do such a thing - surely could not have been the O&D traffic between BRU-MAA? I flew ORD-BRU-MAA and back in the late 90s and found a good chunk of the traffic was ex-US. The flights were fairly full and I estimated the O&D about 20-30% of the folks. Ok, now that was by looking at the folks and making gross assumptions - keeping with the general trend of postings here  Smile

I can't imagine AA would fly to MAA over BOM or DEL. The latter two are so much bigger with so much more U.S. traffic.

Does anyone have estimates for the above? While BOM and DEL are much bigger markets and I would suspect that O&D between BOM and LHR to be an order of magnitude greater than say between MAA and LHR, I am not sure such relationships hold for US traffic. I would reckon that traffic from US westcoast to MAA/BLR to comparable to BOM/DEL.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 7440 times:

Quoting Sshank (Reply 22):
surely could not have been the O&D traffic between BRU-MAA?

There is thanks to the diamond industry, or at least that is what I have been told.



a.
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 7394 times:

Chennai has a diamond industry? Big grin

25 Slider : Well, range for starters. That's darn near close to the farthest practical route one could fly with a 777-200. EWR-DEL's range then also would likely
26 Airzim : Nope, United and Pan Am both flew to Delhi in the past.
27 B747-437B : Add Delta and Northwest to that list.
28 Gigneil : I remember the conversation, but it wasn't me. N
29 Shawnnyc : I believe Sabena flew to MAA over BOM and DEL because its alliance partners (don't remember who) already flew to BOM and DEL but not MAA (their partn
30 DAL767400ER : I would be surprised to see any other US airline trying to serve MAA for the time being. Loads to MAA are a disaster. Just look at the loads on B. Ede
31 Airzim : B747-437B, BTW, everytime I flew through DEL on JL, TG, and SQ we had manual check-in, that even included the old "sticker" method of seat assignment.
32 WorldXplorer : Sorry. That thread was deleted so I was going off of memory. Maybe the person who claims it will come forward. Sean, do you know anything about AI's
33 Post contains images Blrbird : Could some one tell me which is this site and what is the URL
34 MAH4546 : Unfortunate to hear, though I'd give it time. I think the flight will end up a strong performer. Regardless, I do know for a fact that AA has been st
35 Padcrasher : Where would AA have their stop in Europe on the way to India? Would LON even be allowed?
36 Brons2 : What aircraft are able to fly direct USA-India? I assume that with the interference of the Himalayas and the Tibetan Plateau, it would be quads-only d
37 MAH4546 : The rumours are suggesting it would be Brussels, where they would get additional feed from their successful relationship with SN Brussels. And they c
38 Brons2 : I thought the single engine altitude was too low on the 777 to allow operation over the Himalayas.
39 Commavia : I agree. AA's management team isn't much for risk right now, and I think MAA is just not developed enough of a market yet to support two U.S. carrier
40 Klwright69 : I don't see AI coming to DEN sooner than IAH, or DFW. I just don't see it. Here in DEN we have a hard enough time attracting other foreign carriers be
41 Post contains links DAL767400ER : http://www.benedelman.org/travel/dlseats/ I would certainly hope so, but currently it does not look so unfortunately. DeltaMIA told me about the load
42 Slider : I should have specified at *present* time; certainly other carriers served it, thank you for the clarification.
43 WorldXplorer : I would tend to agree with you. I am in DEN too and I know the long track record of failed attempts to lure foreign carriers to fly here. However, th
44 HB-IWC : Sabena started operations between BRU and MAA as part of the then-Qualiflyer Group's strategy to better cover the Indian market. At the time, additio
45 AirScoot : I don't know that that would have an accurate picture. He's pulling seat maps rather than loads. Some of those seats are blocked for airport check-in
46 Shawnnyc : You are right ORD-India will come first. I mentioned JFK as a possibility for them given the strong O&D traffic between NYC and say BOM (both busines
47 COEWR787 : The non-stop route from US East Coast to India does not go over the Himalayas. It crosses the Western (and lower end of) Hindu Kush, North of Kabul,
48 Post contains images ChrisNH : Are they nicknaming these flights the 'Tech-Support and Computer Programmer' Express?
49 Klwright69 : And why is CO going to Delhi and not Mumbai? Why was this the choice?
50 RJpieces : Any idea when Air India might start nonstop flights to the US?
51 Diesel33 : Klwright69... Although no one serves Bombay from the US non-stop, BOM seems to be pretty much covered by a few airlines. US-AMS-BOM by NW at 2X daily
52 B747-437B : Operational concerns.
53 LH477 : Sean, Can you please elaborate? Concerns such as?
54 B747-437B : Inability to fly EWR-BOM nonstop both ways without payload hits. Inability to obtain appropriate slots at BOM versus DEL for the proposed times of op
55 Shawnnyc : It is only because of the reasons Sean mentioned. BOM has the most premium traffic of any city in India and has very close links to NYC. The first ai
56 Klwright69 : Yes with so much service to Bombay, maybe the traffic just isn't there to a Delhi. Maybe all the traffic exists to Bombay for a reason. Maybe CO is ma
57 Slider : Wow! Now that would be well worth the trip!
58 LH477 : I think CO will do quiet well in DEL. From what I gather AC is doing well in with YYZ-DEL.
59 LH477 : Makes perfect sense. Thank you....
60 Klwright69 : YYZ is Toronto? I take it this flight is nonstop? What aircraft? CO seems to have their sights set on Asia out of EWR at this time. I bet they'll att
61 Karan69 : Since the signing of the open skies policy between India and USA both DL and NW have announce flights to MAA and BLR respectively thus covering up th
62 CHI787ORD : Is UA still planning ORD-DEL nonstop? I'd rather have UA fly this route over Air Sahara or AA.
63 LH477 : Yes, YYZ is Toronto. The flight is nonstop, the equipment is mostly A343 and once in a blue moon A345.
64 Karan69 : More often than not they do make a 40 minute technical stop somewhere in Europe, not sure where though
65 Sshank : More often than not they do make a 40 minute technical stop somewhere in Europe, not sure where though They are known to pit at ARN for some juice wh
66 AC787 : Where have they been known to do the stop? I think its usually Stockholm but are there any other spots that this flight uses as a technical stop?
67 MAH4546 : It is almost always Stockholm. The flight stops most often during the winter months, especially during peak travel (December/early January) when load
68 TKMCE : Totally correct and as HB-IWC saidthe alliance partner was Swiss Air . THe loads were good, because they chose to fly thrice weekly on the days where
69 NorthstarBoy : on the issue of us carriers flying to Delhi, i seem to recall the following: DL and possibly NW stopped the service because of the circuitous routing
70 B747-437B : That is only part of the story. The seat restrictions were only in place for 5th freedom traffic which did not have an online UA connection. So if UA
71 Shawnnyc : I am sort of amazed we are still talking about the desirability of nonstops USA-India (this is not directed at you NorthstarBoy, just general comment
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