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Swiss Example:What Would You Do With The Airline?  
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5595 times:

Yesterday, the Swiss railway network totally shut down! No train was circulating whatsoever(NB look at the non av forum for more details).

Because of this, many people were not able to catch their flight and many I guess have to wait another day or take an alternative route to their destination.

In case of a major shutdown like this affecting the whole country, what can airlines do ?
After all its not the passengers' fault if they couldn't catch their flight !

Would they still get the travellers in another flight for free(LCC except)
Or would they say its not their fault since it concerns the train company?
Could the train company compensate for missing the flight ?

Since I'm sure quite a few a.netters are aware of the policies concerning missed flights when its not your fault I thought I'd ask the question here!

Regards


A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5584 times:

Wow. Being in America where we don't have this sort of thing...I'm not sure I have any idea....

Technically, if the passenger doesn't arrive to check-in, regardless of the circumstances, it's not our (or whatever airline) fault he/she didn't show up. My guess is that Swiss would waive any rebooking charges assuming there are seats to be had. Just a guess...

fluffy


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5544 times:

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 1):
Technically, if the passenger doesn't arrive to check-in, regardless of the circumstances, it's not our (or whatever airline) fault he/she didn't show up.

Which is exactly the way it works here as well - if you're going to the airport by train, by bus, by car, or - for the fun of it - walking, it doesn't matter: if you're not there on time, it's your problem.

Unless, of course, the train was operating in a codesharing agreement with the airline and, thus, operated under one of their flight numbers, because then, it would be the same as a feeder-flight with tech difficulties.

Perhaps, because of the scale of the events, the airlines will help in reaccommodating passengers - but as I see it, they could simply say "Sorry, your plane has left already, you were a noshow".

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineFelixZRH From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 226 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5519 times:

It seems that yesterday weren't more noshows than usual in ZRH.

The NZZ writes the following:

Quote:
Trotz den gravierenden Störungen auf dem SBB-Streckennetz meldete der Flughafen Zürich keine Probleme. Die Reisenden hätten fü die Fahrt vom und zum Flughafen auf andere Verkehrsmittel zurückgegriffen, teilte Unique mit. Sogenannte 'No Shows', also Passagiere, die ihren Flug verpassten, habe es nur im üblichen Rahmen gegeben.

And ZRH is not far from the city, so just by fun I walked on Monday home after arriving from HAM. As I live in the northern suburb Oerlikon it took just a little bit more than an hour.

[Edited 2005-06-23 09:22:49]

User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5488 times:

This is weird question. It is not the airline's fault if anybody does not catch the flight because his train/car/taxi/bus did not work. The airlines don't have to do anything. If any passenger did not catch the plane because of the railway shutdown this passenger would have to look for compensations at the railway company. But, as posted, not many passengers missed a flight because of the not running trains.

User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5414 times:

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
Yesterday, the Swiss railway network totally shut down! Because of this, many people were not able to catch their flight .

Aren't there taxis in Switzerland?  Yeah sure


User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5379 times:

Hi.

What you do is sue the SBB and ask them to pay your airline ticket.... I think from then on next time they will be more carefull about that!
regards


User currently offlinePipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1594 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5364 times:
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Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 5):
en't there taxis in Switzerland?

Let's say your train stopped somewhere between hürliberg-im-obeland and kandersteg-am-marzipan, or between echallens-les-foins and vuillardens-les-pétzouilles, try finding something civilized!

There were about 100'000 people that were in the trains at that time. The lucky ones were in a station somewhere. The unlucky ones were in the situation described above, and with about 30 degrees celcius yesterday, the Air Conditioning didn't work anymore (no power)...

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 1):
Being in America where we don't have this sort of thing

What kind of dumb comment is that? Of course you don't, you don't have trains!

BTW, the New York blackout, what was that?



It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 7):
h�rliberg-im-obeland and kandersteg-am-marzipan, or between echallens-les-foins and vuillardens-les-p�tzouilles, try finding something civilized!

HAHAHA funny names!

Here are some real names that i've spotted out in Switz

Oberunterhorstetten
Hunikon Bei Eftenbach
Meziriens -pres -Tassignens
Blagnens pres Echichens(more like a hamlet)
Vugelles la mothe
Peney-le -Jorat
Vers-chez-les blanc
Vers l'Eglise
and the best one

Grattavache (in english it would be translated as scratch your cow)



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlinePipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1594 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5300 times:
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Quoting RootsAir (Reply 8):
Vers-chez-les blanc

Hey I don't live far from this one actually!! But it's a real stupid name!
RootsAir, I heard you were living near Lausanne? Is that true? Then you also know "Chalet-à-Gobet" which is a stupid name too!



It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5239 times:

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 9):
RootsAir, I heard you were living near Lausanne?

Well I actually live in Nyon but I study Med in le CHUV so I'm very familiar with the region. Otherwise I'm out in Geneva a lot too . Indeed I know Ch�let � Gobet...and must agree its a degree below Vers-chez-les -blancs. Cheers mate !



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineCarmenlu15 From Guatemala, joined Dec 2004, 4756 posts, RR: 31
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 2 days ago) and read 5119 times:

No trains here, so no problem! Big grin

But when there is a problem such as blocked roads due to protests, airlines usually waive penalty and rebook passengers in the next available flight.



What do I know, I'm just an 'immature troublemaker with only a passing interest in aviation' (or so they say)
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5020 times:

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 7):
What kind of dumb comment is that? Of course you don't, you don't have trains!

Just stating a fact. Don't be an ass about it. Where I live, a mass-transit system would not be feasable (as is the same for about 75% of the rest of America). It would have to basically be run on government funds alone. No people out here in the wilderness.  Wink

fluffy


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11452 posts, RR: 61
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4990 times:

Yep, as others have said -- in the U.S., if you don't show up, you don't board. Simple and straightforward. The only exception to this rule is if it is an interline connection. In that case, then the airline would be responsible for getting you to where you were going. For example, if an SNCF rail train was late from Angers to CDG, and it was an UA-coded train, than UA would be responsible for somehow getting the passenger to their destination. If, however, a passenger bought an Angers-CDG train ticket with SNCF and a seperate CDG-ORD ticket on UA, than UA has know responsibility because from where they're sitting, they have no idea where you are coming from and nor do they care.

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 7):
What kind of dumb comment is that? Of course you don't, you don't have trains!

And for good reason, too. They don't work here because people won't pay for them. The only train system we have in this country is a financial black whole the taxpayers continually have to bail out. The trains are inefficient, unreliable and inconvenient. Perhaps if they were privatized, something could be done, but as for now, trains in the U.S. just don't work. Other mass-transit systems, like buses, subways and light-rail are far more effective.


User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4923 times:

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 1):
Technically, if the passenger doesn't arrive to check-in, regardless of the circumstances, it's not our (or whatever airline) fault he/she didn't show up

In the UK, airlines are not liable for any missed departures or inconvenience suffered on your trip to the airport. If there are no trains, or the rail network shuts down completely, you have to seek alternative means to get to the airport on time. If you miss your flight, unless you are on a legacy carrier which will try and find you an alternative, the usual response will be something along the lines, "Tough luck! Your plane has left/check in closed and you're left behind."

In fact, in the UK it is a common experience that major roadworks cause massive traffic jams (the motorways around LHR and LGW are hot spots), and trains often suffer from delays (sometimes due to simple things like "leaves on the line" or "hot weather") and engineering works (often timed to coincide with a peak holiday period) that many airlines actually advise passengers to allow extra time for their journey to the airport due to the above. Some UK airlines also advise passengers to check for road traffic/rail reports before leaving for the airport.



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineCgnnrw From Germany, joined May 2005, 1145 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4888 times:

As brutal as it sounds the airlines shouldn't be held responsible for train delays, etc and I can understand when they take the "not our problem" position. Pity all those EasyJet, Ryanair passengers. They were definitely screwed!! HOWEVER, the case in Switzerland is a bit different because the ENTIRE country was affected. I would think legacy airlines would be wise to try their best to help people get to their destination simply from a public relations perspective. Think about it what is better for an airline`s reputation:

1) tough luck, we got your cash, you weren't here for check-in, go away and don't bother us. Results=customers really pissed off at the airline and becoming aggressive, abusive towards employees, and bad-mouthing the airlines whenever they get a chance
or
2) we understand your predictiment, we'll do what we can to help, be patient and let's see if we can find a solution to make you, as a customer, happy. Result= happy customer made to feel his/her problem was taken seriously, impressed with airlines professionalism, likely to fly them again and speak fondly of them when they get a chance

BTW isn't there some "rule" in the US about missing a flight and then if you say according to "rule blah blah" the airline is required to rebook you. I'm not sure exactly I sort of remember hearing something along this line from a travel agent years ago. Any clues????



A330 man.
User currently offlinePipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1594 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4866 times:
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Quoting RootsAir (Reply 10):

Well I actually live in Nyon but I study Med in le CHUV so I'm very familiar with the region

Cool! Hope we meet someday! Cheers!
Pipo



It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5075 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
They don't work here because people won't pay for them. The only train system we have in this country is a financial black whole the taxpayers continually have to bail out.

= Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Swiss Rail also subsidized and also a loss making entity?



Live, and let live.
User currently offlinePipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1594 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4830 times:
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Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 17):
Swiss Rail also subsidized and also a loss making entity

Subsidized, yes, but I'm not sure they make loss! Our post offices are the same status than the trains and they make money!



It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 15):
BTW isn't there some "rule" in the US about missing a flight and then if you say according to "rule blah blah" the airline is required to rebook you. I'm not sure exactly I sort of remember hearing something along this line from a travel agent years ago. Any clues????

I believe you are referring to the "flat tyre" policy. If you are late to the airport, but still arrive within a certain time of your original flight, the airline will allow you to travel (stand-by?) on the next flight. It doesn't have to be a flat tyre that has made you late - that is just the name that has been given to the policy by some US airlines.


User currently offlineCgnnrw From Germany, joined May 2005, 1145 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

Quoting Nickofatlanta (Reply 19):
I believe you are referring to the "flat tyre" policy. If you are late to the airport, but still arrive within a certain time of your original flight, the airline will allow you to travel (stand-by?) on the next flight. It doesn't have to be a flat tyre that has made you late - that is just the name that has been given to the policy by some US airlines.

Thanks for the information.

So if I'm late for any reason but say to the check-in person "my car had a flat" they have to help me or they can help me? Big difference.....

I can't imagine an EasyJet or Ryanair employee being that helpful......



A330 man.
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4808 times:

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 16):

Cool! Hope we meet someday! Cheers!
Pipo

volontiers! T'as mon email !



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineBuckieboy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4761 times:

Hi All,

I've just been in the UK for a few days and I must admit that I am shocked with the statement made by the original poster. I have lived in Switzerland for nearly three years and in this time have taken approximately 1000 trains: during this time I have suffered just one cancellation and three trains over 15 minutes late. I can see UK travellers going green with envy.....

However, reading the title my post would have been:

Reinstate flights to PEK & PVG as a priority, even if the African flights suffer. Exploit the GVA-NYC route. Bring the ZRH to HKG business class service up to a similar standard to LH's Asian offerings, to name a few.  Wink

Cheers

Buckieboy


User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4733 times:

To the Swiss residents,
is this real or fake?
I cannot believe that the entire railway system went down?
BLS, SBB, FO, RhB...?

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 7):
Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 1):
Being in America where we don't have this sort of thing

What kind of dumb comment is that? Of course you don't, you don't have trains!

BTW, the New York blackout, what was that?

Nothing to comment further except this,
The swiss railways are one of the best in the world, both in infrastructure as service, most of there mainline trains are even capable of driving 230Km/h!
Thats why so many codeshares are found on SBB.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
And for good reason, too. They don't work here because people won't pay for them. The only train system we have in this country is a financial black whole the taxpayers continually have to bail out. The trains are inefficient, unreliable and inconvenient. Perhaps if they were privatized, something could be done, but as for now, trains in the U.S. just don't work. Other mass-transit systems, like buses, subways and light-rail are far more effective.

Agreed and quite normal, when you have to take Kyoto in mind you don't need such a poluting mass transport system like for instance...unefficient slow electric trains...

How silly and stupid can it be, jumping on a silly sharp-looking silverlike train in Brussels and arriving very unreliable and inconveniently into Paris nord station 1 hour later...

Maybe we take US and EU railway material under one hat! And that is so wrong!
but there is already hope, the northeast corridor and Acela in the USA!


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