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KLM Nonstop To LIM B777?  
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5767 times:

I read this post from a fellow a.net member and thought it could be useful to start a thread to collect more views and information:

Lima: "Interesting about crew restrictions. I read a copy of Wolken Ridder (KLM staff magazine) an article over Lima, Peru. Apparently they evaluate the possibility to open a nonstop 777 flight AMS-LIM"

Currently KL operates daily nonstops to GRU (B777) and MEX (B747); LIM (M11) and UIO/GYE are served with a stop-over in the Dutch Caribbean.

I see there is market potential for KL to go nonstop to both LIM and UIO/GYE, especially under AF codeshare. Any views?

Rgs,

86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLima From Argentina, joined May 1999, 1122 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5690 times:

Hola Hardi!

Tudo bem??

Yes this article in Wolken Ridder stated that they were evaluating replacing the current flight with a nonstop 777. Flights to Lima according to the article are always extremly full or overbooked. But then, what about yields? They say traffic is mostly ethnic to southern Europe, and tourist from Europe.

Also KLM strategy is to eliminate this stop over flights as they cost more money with crews stays and so. It could be...

Sebastian


User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3750 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5681 times:

Would the MD-11 be utilsed elsewhere? Would give OW airlines from LON a bit of competition on LON-LIMA, which would be good.

User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5653 times:

When I took that flight, the flight was completely full - oversold - they were asking for people to volunteer to take the next flight. Very few people got on or off in Aruba.

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5430 times:

Quoting Lima (Reply 1):
Yes this article in Wolken Ridder stated that they were evaluating replacing the current flight with a nonstop 777. Flights to Lima

Hola, Sebastian! Tks for the interesting information.

Rgs,


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9832 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5368 times:

Interesting news. I had a conversation a friend about this exact topic. However, these are only rumours. But as some of you have said, it sounds like a logical move, when looking at the costs that KLM can save with the crew base being 'moved' to any of these South American countries as these countries are much cheaper. Combined with the fact that people would prefer a non-stop flight instead of a stop-over, this can make it more attractive to KLM. KLM will eventually save crew costs and make the routes more competitive by offering non-stop flights. KLM now has the aircraft that can fly the route non-stop (777/332) so why not make use of the aircraft's range?

For the Dutch Caribbean islands this, however, can be a major blow, as the crew base is crucial to the airports there.

Only time will tell what KLM will decide. Looking at the pros and cons of the non-stop flights against the stop-over in the Caribbean, I can imagine KLM will eventually decide to drop the Caribbean hub to save a bit more money. Airlines nowadays are looking even closer at cost savings, so it wouldn't surprise my in the end.

I guess we'll have to wait for now.

A388


User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5354 times:

Hi again to everybody!!!

IB is fulling planes (sometimes with the A340-600) in the Peruvian market as there is just a few airlines serving Peru from/towards Europe non-stop

KL can try it ...why not?


User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5311 times:

i can indeed confirm that in the not to far future, BON will be eliminated on the KLM list... although the fuel prices are low, KL will save a lot on the direct flights since the amount of passengers traveling to BON is very low and actually all pax are flying to Sout america.

It will most probably change from 1 777 flight a day instead of the usual 2 x MD-11's.

the pax traveling to BON will be flown in either AUA or CUR so they can fly with the Island hoppers to BON...


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5307 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 7):
the pax traveling to BON will be flown in either AUA or CUR

So, would KL keep its direct service to AUA or CUR?

Another question: does UIO/GYE also have to chance to go nonstop B777/A330 and therefore drop the stop-over in the Dutch Caribbean?

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 7):
i can indeed confirm that in the not to far future, BON will be eliminated on the KLM list... although the fuel prices are low, KL will save a lot on the direct flights since the amount of passengers traveling to BON is very low and actually all pax are flying to Sout america.

Totally agree with you point. Those Dutch Caribbean stops should be handled by Martinair instead.

Btw, anyone has information how PNB nonstop is doing? Any possible upgrade/increase in service forseen? Flights are always full and average fares are very high.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5290 times:

I'm not in complete agreement with your statements that all pax go to LIM and only a few to BON. I handle KL741 a lot at the gate as Spanish is my language and that's always handy with the overbookings. Of course it's holiday season now which means more pax to BON than maybe during quiet times but like yesterday this flight was made up of a lot of BON pax. Oversale in Economy was 36 but it went out with 2 empty seats in the back.

Still, I'd love a non-stop flight to LIM, that might finally induce me to go. It's too long a trip for me now, as I suffer from back problems. I guess many people would be of the same opinion.



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5279 times:

Lamedianaranja, hola! Como estas?  Wink

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 9):
I'm not in complete agreement with your statements that all pax go to LIM and only a few to BON

It makes sense. I dont think KL would fly BON and AUA/CUR only because of "political" reasons. On the other hand, I think it would make sense for KL to fly to only one Dutch Caribbean Island and feed the others with regional service.

LIM and UIO/GYE deserves a dedicated nonstop flight. As you mentioned, with the stop-over the flight is really long. Imagine GYE/UIO which have TWO stops over!? In addition, as far as I know, only IB flies these routes from Europe.

Rgs,


User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5244 times:

I think LanEcuador also flies from MAD to GYE.

User currently offlineCheco77 From Peru, joined Oct 2004, 1345 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5246 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
think it would make sense for KL to fly to only one Dutch Caribbean Island and feed the others with regional service.


Very, very true.

I really makes sense for KLM to fly nonstop to LIM and Ecuador. And the 772/332 are a perfect combination to do it.
I hope we will see some new nonstop flighs.
Regards,
Adam



Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5195 times:

So, would KL keep its direct service to AUA or CUR?

yes they will.... the demand for those 2 islands is rather good and its still growing... in the Summer AUA even receives its own full pax 747-400 service.... (now since they only have 4/5 full pax you can conclude that its a lot of pax) And , although its a beautiful island, BON isn't really big, and there isn't much to do on the island except for diving... so no big demand for BON..

I know there are talks for sending the 777 to AUA, without knowing if it will be a direct flight, and AUA-CUR flight, or a stop over flight for a south amerika route but i wouldnt be suprised to see a 777 on a 5x week service for only AUA, so KL will keep the flight to the island, even if CUR is only 15 min flying, rather than use Island hoppers... Because the demand is just to high for that strategy

than we have CUR, well think you already know the demand is very hight, therefore they are sending the 747's.... and even with ArkeFly comming to CUR, the payload will still be full, or at least filled up...

Btw, anyone has information how PNB nonstop is doing? Any possible upgrade/increase in service forseen? Flights are always full and average fares are very high.


i suppose you mean PBM? if so i can tell you the future of SLM isn't that bright... Sorry but can't tell to much , since its still being investigated and a good relativ of mine (won't say what kind of relative  Wink) and a lot of other people are still investigating some cases at SLM...
But the route alone is doing fine, and if SLM will be gone, there will be place for other airlines , wich are actually quite a lot wich wan't to fly to suriname...


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9832 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5123 times:

I agree on that. KLM should focus more on the AUA and CUR markets. I also thaught BON was too small for KLM to serve, especially two flight each day. The demand just isn't there, like it is in AUA and CUR. The AUA and CUR markets can support daily flights year-round because of increasing demand and a larger domestic market. With the new terminal under construction CUR becomes more attractive as feeder hub for KL to other Caribbean islands, like BON and SXM. A friend of mine said that KL is being handled by AF (ticketing) so it wouldn't surprise me if KLM would drop SXM as well, so AF can fully take-over this route like they did with the CCS route.

I guess time will tell what will eventually happen. I just hope KL will send its 777s to CUR in the future during low season or even the A332  Big grin

A388


User currently offlineGlobeTrekker From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 851 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5120 times:

One must remember that prior to the AMS-BON-LIM and AMS-BON-UIO/GYE flights, BON only had one or two 747 flights a week routed through CUR. On the rest of the days pax would connect in AUA or CUR with ALM Antillean to BON. Meaning not a lot of money was spent in BON on the flights as everything was mainly done in CUR.
So if they take away the flights it would indeed save a lot on cost.

I work for KLM's Regional Management department on the ABC islands (mainly AUA).

These are some of the costs involved by routing the LIM and UIO/GYE flights through BON:
  • Landing fees

  • Fueling fees

  • handling fees; ground handling, catering, cleaning etc.

  • hotel fees for crew; LIM crew stay in a different hotel than the UIO/GYE crew

  • fees for having local KLM representatives in BON and more.......

    AUA, BON and CUR at one point or another all had the LIM and UIO/GYE flights. When KLM announced it wanted to move to BON a bidding war started between the three islands on these "tail-end" flights. BON won, because it was the cheapest island to operate the flights through. This of course was before KLM had the 777. Of course KLM put down some conditions and a major one was a facility for transit pax, runway extension etc. Will that secure BON forever...no it won't. Money talks!

    Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
    So, would KL keep its direct service to AUA or CUR?

    Hi Hardi!
    KLM is happy with the direct services to AUA (KL733/734) and CUR (KL735/736). Capacity can be adjusted to AUA and CUR when necessary (MD11 or 744), depending on the seasons and sometimes combining AUA and CUR on one flight (KL781 or KL783). Extra flights are added during peak periods (carnival, summer vacation and X-mas) to comply with the extra demand. Up to this moment KLM is the only real dependable airline to operate between AMS and the Dutch Caribbean. ALM Antillean, Dutch Caribbean Airlines, Air Holland and DutchCaribbeanExel all turned out to be disasters leaving pax stranded or with useless tickets.
    It must be noted though that AUA, BON and CUR are low yield destinations. Make no mistake; the loads are very good on the flights, but this doesn't translate to high yield, such as Peru and Ecuador.

    Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
    Totally agree with you point. Those Dutch Caribbean stops should be handled by Martinair instead.

    MP served all three island as a charter service initially with MD11's and 767's. (flights handled and supervised by KLM on AUA, BON and CUR).
    Later they started a twice-weekly scheduled services from AUA with 767's as an add-on to the MIA flights. MP had their own Airport Management at AUA, but we did share the check-in staff (wearing both MP and KL uniform) and they made use of KLM's airport systems.
    They had full traffic rights between AUA and MIA and were marketing MIA as a MP destination from AUA.
    Loads were very poor and pax traveling from AUA to AMS didn't mind the flights as much, comparing to those flying AMS to AUA. This is because AUA has US Immigration and Customs pre-check and AMS did not. MP soon seized flying to AUA.

    Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
    Btw, anyone has information how PNB nonstop is doing? Any possible upgrade/increase in service foreseen? Flights are always full and average fares are very high.

    PBM is doing well for KLM (I don't know much about the PY side of things) BUT PBM was always a destination that did well as a matter of fact. As time goes by I will familiarize myself more with PBM as Surinam is now part of KLM Regional Management in CUR (after being a stand-alone station with its own Management) and therefore will be in my work-package.

    Quoting A388 (Reply 14):
    friend of mine said that KL is being handled by AF (ticketing) so it wouldn't surprise me if KLM would drop SXM as well, so AF can fully take-over this route like they did with the CCS route.

    AF did take-over the station SXM concerning business/sales/marketing activities. This will now be done by AF Area Management in Point-a-Pitre in Guadaloupe. It was announced early on, some staff was taken over by AF and it was celebrated by an AF flight to SXM with mixed crew of AF and KLM.

    KLM's flights to SXM however will not seize at this moment. They have actually just increased from twice to 3 times a week with continuing service to CUR (KL0785).

    As mentioned above the take-over of SXM by AF meant I would no longer have that station in my package, but I got PBM instead, so the workload will remain the same.

    Cheers!

    Globe Trekker



    The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
    User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
    Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4990 times:

    GlobeTrekker:

    Thank you very much for the very interesting details and clarifications.

    Quoting GlobeTrekker (Reply 15):
    BUT PBM was always a destination that did well as a matter of fact.

    I suspected so.

    Rgs,


    User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9832 posts, RR: 11
    Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4906 times:

    Thank you for the detailed information GlobeTrekker. As a native from Curaçao I find your additional insight/information always interesting to read. I will migrate back to CUR by the end of next month and will be flying KL again. My last trip to CUR this past month was great. I'm still looking for time to write a trip report. In a nutshell, the service was nice and the 744 flew nice too. Hats off for KLM Big grin

    A388


    User currently offlineGlobeTrekker From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 851 posts, RR: 14
    Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4742 times:

    No problem guys!

    Quoting A388 (Reply 17):
    I'm still looking for time to write a trip report. In a nutshell, the service was nice and the 744 flew nice too. Hats off for KLM

    Thankk you for choosing KLM. You should definitely write one! Looing forward to it and I hope you got great pics too!

    Globe Trekker



    The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
    User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
    Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4728 times:

    Djeez guy's im jealous at you!!!!

    within a month youre both at the caribean islands!!! can't wait untill my next visit!!!!


    im also looking forward to youre trip report, it are my fav routes.. (ams-aua, ams-cur) since i flew them a lot!


    User currently offlineGlobeTrekker From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 851 posts, RR: 14
    Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4652 times:

    So Maurice,

    When and to where will your next trip to the ABC's be? I assume you travel IPB (non-revenue)?

    Globe Trekker



    The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
    User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 21
    Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4593 times:

    Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
    Lamedianaranja, hola! Como estas?

    Tudo bem,especially as we just watched Brazil beat Germany at soccer!Parabens!

    Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
    Btw, anyone has information how PMB nonstop is doing?

    Flights to PBM are once again fully booked until the end of the summer. Non-revving restricted to first line family because of these problems. The Antillean area hasn't had this restriction enforced (yet) but there is a current warning for KLM employees to be very careful before going to popular destinations as it might be difficult to come back on time. It's gonna be one hot summer, Globe Trekker!  Wink



    I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
    User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4430 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4560 times:

    Quoting GlobeTrekker (Reply 15):
    It must be noted though that AUA, BON and CUR are low yield destinations. Make no mistake; the loads are very good on the flights, but this doesn't translate to high yield,

    GlobeTrekker, isn't one of the reasons why AUA, CUR and BON are low yield because the lack of cargo and very seasonal flows on the route? I can recall KLM arguing that all Dutch Antilles flights (and PBM) have these problems and thus KLM isn't making as much money on these routes as many believe.

    Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 21):
    The Antillean area hasn't had this restriction enforced (yet) but there is a current warning for KLM employees to be very careful before going to popular destinations as it might be difficult to come back on time. It's gonna be one hot summer, Globe Trekker!

    Last year some went to CUR and couldn't come back in time. Fortunatly, they only had their IPB rights revoked for a couple of months and didn't loose their job.... In the old days the KLM staff could use the CCS detour but even this is becoming more difficult as the remaining airlines on the route have a pretty good load.


    User currently offlineGlobeTrekker From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 851 posts, RR: 14
    Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4515 times:

    Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 21):
    The Antillean area hasn't had this restriction enforced (yet) but there is a current warning for KLM employees to be very careful before going to popular destinations as it might be difficult to come back on time. It's gonna be one hot summer, Globe Trekker!

    Indeed. Every summer its the same story. We end up with non-revvers begging for space that I cannot give them, non-revvers sleeping on airports, because they have no money for accomodations and worst of all the cryers at the desks!
    When we "gate the flight" and we start the onloading process of stanby pax we see all the eager expecting faces. Then you call their name one-by-one and when you make an announcement that the flight is closed off completely the disgusted looks and the snide remarks.... and worst of all the sound of people crying........
    But I'll have my seatbelt fastened for this bumpy ride, Lamedianaranja Smile!

    Quoting LJ (Reply 22):
    Last year some went to CUR and couldn't come back in time. Fortunatly, they only had their IPB rights revoked for a couple of months and didn't loose their job.... In the old days the KLM staff could use the CCS detour but even this is becoming more difficult as the remaining airlines on the route have a pretty good load.

    In the days we still had ALM Antillean and Air Aruba, KLM'ers made extensive use of their services to 'escape' to AUA, BON, CUR, CCS and ATL in the case of full/overbooked flights at a station. Now we see KLM staff having to purchase full-fare tickets (some are active a.net members on this forum Wink) on BonairExpress to travel between islands trying to find a way to get back home.

    I like to visit my parents who live in Holland during the summer, but I never IPB. Always a full-revenue ticket!

    Globe Trekker



    The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
    User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4466 times:

    Sorry Un related...How is KL's AMS-MNL Flight going...I is near the CO gate at MNL Never seems very full ??? But is the only Non-Stop to Europe...PAL,BA,AF gave up on Europe-MNL, and LH Stops Enroute...

    25 Post contains links A388 : As some of you have asked me to write a trip report on my last flight with KL, please read it in the Trip Reports forum. Click on the link below to op
    26 Post contains images AirKas1 : Bon Noche/Buenas Noches/Goedenavond! Very interesting thread. Thanks for giving me something to read on this late night (almost 3AM now). I would hate
    27 Post contains images A388 : Heey Kas, How's life. It's been a long time since I've seen your name pass through these forums. Anyway, to answer your question about what will becom
    28 Post contains images AirKas1 : Heey, life is great I know, I haven't been active that much lately. I think I know the reason aswell (got a g/f since last week, since that I haven't
    29 Post contains images A388 : Hahaha, I was uploading pictures like crazy when I went to the Paris Air Show but only one got accepted, of which I'm very thankful. It's my first A38
    30 GlobeTrekker : Well BonairExpress and CuracaoExpress will make use of an Surinam Airways MD-82 to fly between CUR and SXM three times a week. It may be the aircraft
    31 Post contains images A388 : Wow, thanks for the insight GlobeTrekker. I have just added you on my respected users list. I always find your posts and threads interesting to read.
    32 Post contains images MauriceB : guy's i love this thread!!! lol, but globe, to answer youre question, i will be in CUR/AUA in October and December (likely) and yes i will go IPB off-
    33 A388 : Heey MauriceB, What's up. I don't think there is direct hate against dutch people there, because there were also other nationalities involved in the s
    34 Post contains images AirKas1 : Ahhhh, there goes my chance of a cheap ticket to SXM Sounds a bit like (ALM/)DCA to me? Btw, we hijacked this thread I think, congratulations to all
    35 Post contains images GoAibusGo : Hello guys, It's me, the Exel 'basher'. Sorry, It's off-topic, but still.......... I used to work for Air ALM/ DCA and BonairExel/Express (lots of sla
    36 Post contains images A388 : Heey GoAirbusGo, I was looking at your flag and also remembered seeing the Netherlands Antilles flag before. Welcome to Holland. I will have to change
    37 Post contains images AirKas1 : A388 doesnt know I think he's talking about (Niek) Sandmann, owner (or former owner) of BonairExel. Am I right? Errrr, dunno if you noticed it, but w
    38 GoAibusGo : The man of sand is...Niek S., former businesspartner of Erik de V. and Harm P. of the late ExelAviationGroup. On my part also good luck in Curacao whe
    39 Surrenr : With all this KLM talk, I was wondering what are all their routes and what aircraft do they use to each city they serve. I can't find it anywhere on t
    40 Post contains images GoAibusGo : Yes, it was quite warm indeed, but at least it is not the whole year like on the Antilles
    41 Post contains links and images A388 : By the way GoAirbusGo, looking at your nickname here on the forum I assume you're an Airbus fan, so here's my first photo of the A380 at the Paris Air
    42 Post contains images A388 : Heye AirKas, As long as I can make a start with working it's fine by me. But yes, I will be looking for a job in the aviation sector and am working on
    43 Post contains links and images AirKas1 : My dad just got off the phone with a guy from BON who is trying to build stuff on the land of kunuku Warahama (near the airport). My dad's kinda invol
    44 Post contains images A388 : And GoAirbusGo, Once your actually IN the cold, believe me, you WILL want to go back to warm sunny weather. The winter season can be nice to see, all
    45 GoAibusGo : Actually I sometimes like the cold. I lived here about 10 years ago, for 2 years, came here almost every year on vacantion since my birth and flew a c
    46 A388 : So will KL be obliged to pay for 'damages' or 'loss of income' if they will abandon BON earlier than expected? The way GoAirbusGo explains it, the Gov
    47 GoAibusGo : I don't think KLM has to pay anything if they decide to abandon the stops on Bonaire. It was the Bonaire government who did all these things so that K
    48 A388 : Owww, just like I thaught. I know KL operated to UIO/GYE routes via CUR in the past and LIM via AUA, but LIM was also served via CUR in the past AFAIK
    49 AirKas1 : Didn't American Eagle want to fill up a bit of the gap JM left? Increasing the frequencies?
    50 A388 : Could be but I don't know if American Eagle has the rights to fly the route as they are no 'national airline' of neither of these two islands. I don'
    51 Post contains images A388 : Oops, I meant South American countries, not South American Airlines A388
    52 AirKas1 : Yeh, but what about -KIN-BON or -SJU-BON. I know SJU-BON already exists, but maybe increased frequency on that route?
    53 Arcano : Yes, they do. I don't know why they haven't try LIM-MAD, the only offer that via GYE connecting with XL flights. Now as for the topic: interesting, s
    54 A388 : Heey Kas, What's up. I know what you mean, I was just wondering if American Eagle can operate the route, even for expansion as they are neither Jamaic
    55 Post contains images AirKas1 : I think so too. And it would be nice for (us) spotters aswell
    56 Post contains images A388 : I think GlobeTrekker can fill us in on this as well. What 'legal actions' can BON take in case KL decides to drop BON as a crew base if they decide to
    57 Dakota : Does anyone know what aircraft KLM would use on a possible non-stop route to GYE/UIO? Will this be the 772 or is the A330 large enough?
    58 Post contains images MauriceB : Guy's we rock we hijacked this thread!!! Does anyone know what aircraft KLM would use on a possible non-stop route to GYE/UIO? Will this be the 772 or
    59 Post contains images AirKas1 : I think GoAibusGo was right in saying that the government of Bonaire has kind of a full responsabilty for this. I think this is correct. It would inde
    60 Post contains links and images GlobeTrekker : You called Roger & Kas?   I am right here! We definitely hijacked this thread! My friend (Watapana on this forum) is going to do a return between C
    61 Post contains links and images A388 : Thanks for answering all our questions. So it looks like you will be moving to NL as well. Wow, I didn't expect Antilleans moving to the NL besides th
    62 MauriceB : KL can even use the A330-200 on its flights to CUR during low season but I personally don't see that happen. well think they rather fly with the 777 i
    63 Post contains images A388 : I also think KL will sent down the 777 to CUR as the A332 might be too small for the CUR market, even during low season. If KL will eventually use th
    64 MauriceB : I also think KL will sent down the 777 to CUR as the A332 might be too small for the CUR market, even during low season. If KL will eventually use the
    65 LJ : Peru has a sizeable natural gas business and guess which (Anglo-Dutch) company is doing business over there. Furthermore, France doesn't do much busi
    66 GlobeTrekker : Those agents you see at Hato at the check-in with the KLM uniform are employees of Antillian Flight Services. They also run the airport ticket office
    67 Post contains images A388 : Heey GlobeTrekker, Thank you for the comments on my column. I did enjoy the Paris Air Show very much and absolutely didn't mind the extremely warm wea
    68 Luisde8cd : Really? where to in Venezuela? my only guess is the nearby Los Roques Archipelago which is paradise on earth.
    69 AirKas1 : Sorry, but I have no idea. He didn't tell me (I think he (my dad) doesn't know)
    70 GoAibusGo : Well I heard from some people who traveled recently whit them that fly frequently through Montego Bay, Jamaica on their flights to/from AMS. All this
    71 Post contains images A388 : Thanks for the insight GoAirbusGo. I have added you to my respected users list, just like GlobeTrekker A388
    72 GoAibusGo : Thanks for the photos GlobeT. of Bonaire. I had a nice 2 years there. I lived close to end of runway 10 (or beginning of 28). Close to a softball fiel
    73 Post contains images GoAibusGo : Thanks, you will go on my as well (nos tur ta ruman caribense= we are all Caribbean brothers) And yes MauriceB. we hi-jacked this thread completely in
    74 MauriceB : Feel sorry for you GoAirbusGo, i know how nice the dutch caribean are! wanna live there myself when i grow up!!! And yes MauriceB. we hi-jacked this t
    75 LJ : I think you're correct. Currently one week to Dominican Republic and leaving at the end of August goes for EUR 399 and CUR for EUR 599. Peak season p
    76 Post contains links and images AirKas1 : CO Houston To Bonaire! (by BigGSFO Jun 27 2005 in Civil Aviation) YAY!!
    77 AA B777-200 : Interesting opinions, guys! KLM doing LIM nonstop.... In the end, if Lima isn't dropped from the network, I'm pretty sure KLM will end up serving Lima
    78 Lima : AA, I think Iberia flies nonstop but from Guayaquil, placed at sea level. Quito is indeed to high. Regarding Lima, the article stated that the station
    79 GoAibusGo : Quito's runway is in the process of being extended and will be finished in 2007, than non-stop flights to Europe will be possible. I read this in a ne
    80 Post contains links Dakota : GoAirbusGo, Quito wil have a completely new airport in 2009. See this article: http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?id=7320 (in Dutch). It says that Q
    81 LJ : Iberia flies MAD-UIO-GYE-MAD
    82 A388 : So, will the 777 eventually be able to arrive/depart from UIO with a full load? I've seen photos of the Corsair 743 landing in UIO on a charter flight
    83 Post contains images Hardiwv : Indeed, and Brazil beat Argentina!! (btw, I'll be in CCS tomorrow...really looking forward!) Yes. Sebastian, como estas? I dont think KL will close L
    84 Luisde8cd : Really? I hope you like the airport! Can we expect a trip report?
    85 Hardiwv : I'm arriving in CCS tonight. Check your private message. Rgs,
    86 Lamedianaranja : Like Luis said, hope you enjoy your stay at either airport or city. Do try to go up the valley to the city as it's such a beautiful, green place. Or
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