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KLM Hits Rock Bottom And Starts Digging!  
User currently offlineQM001 From Portugal, joined Mar 2004, 281 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13253 times:

I am at wits end at the moment trying to understand how it is that KLM is managing daily to Stoop to new levels. It seems as though a once shining example of service delivery has fallen flat on its face.

In the past 12 weeks I have written no less than 6 letters of complaint to KLM. I have not only as a Platinum Elite received a reply to one letter, but a colleague who is not even a Member received a letter within 4 days saying that he would have to wait a minimum of 3 months for a reply due to the enormous amount of complaints being handled.

What is happening? Can anyone shed light on why they just nose dived. Personally I believe that its a 9-5 "I don't give a shit!" mentality couple with a lack of leadership and pride.

I have not flow KLM now for almost 2 weeks and have chosen, even with extra effort, to fly other Sky Team members, and still KLM have managed to screw up my travel plan, cause me endless stress, lose my luggage at AMS on two separate occasions and just generally harass me. They even have flat out LIED, just because it was time to go home.

There are just two many incidents to mention here, but perhaps some of you can share your experiences, good or bad, and maybe I am just one unlucky traveler!

Thanks and kind regards,

QM001 (167 Air Malawi)


I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6432 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13203 times:

Isn't six complaint letters in twelve weeks a bit excessive on your part? Could the problem maybe be with you?

User currently offlineJCS From Netherlands, joined Jun 2004, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13202 times:

Perhaps because it is 30 degrees Celsius in Holland right now; which makes flight attendants be lazy and the office-staff not willing to work any more?

Johannes


User currently offlinePapaNovember From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 473 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13158 times:

Quoting JCS (Reply 2):
30 degrees Celsius

Is that really cold, or really hot?


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13137 times:

That is really hot for Europe.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineACVitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13130 times:

I think the pride went with the Air France merger. It has been downhill since.

User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12998 times:

Just out of curiosity, what is (are) the main problem(s)??

User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12969 times:

Was funny to see this post actually, because I have had a large number of complaints recently with KLM Cityhopper from the UK Regions to AMS. The main issue I have seen is the cancellation and overbooking of flights - a nasty mix. NWI being particualry badly affected of late.

Anyone in KLM any idea why this is?

7LBAC111



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineQM001 From Portugal, joined Mar 2004, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12955 times:

BOBNWA,

Coming from NWA, with which i am very happy after my Tokyo experience in March, thatw as unexpected. Before April, I had never complained in my life to an airline!

Ask the whole of Holland and I am sure that you will see the feeling is a general one.

How can an airline ever get better when you never say whats wrong. In the case of KLM, I would say that everybody wants to tell them whats wrong hence the customer services being overloaded.

Thanks and brgds,

Paulo



I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12933 times:

7LBAC111,

Most of the UK - AMS flights are operated with F50/70 or F100 aircraft. Everyday there are a lot of cancellations ex AMS, and the majority are flights operated with those planes, they always have major technical problems; it is gonna be time that those Fokker planes are going to be replaced by a more reliable plane.


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6774 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12831 times:

Quoting QM001 (Thread starter):
In the past 12 weeks I have written no less than 6 letters of complaint to KLM.

This tells me a lot, no offense.

I can't speak to KL's level of service, their customer care department, how they handle or what they do with complaints, much less how the AF merger has affected them, but to fire off 6 letters you either have THE worst luck and have had disastrously bad experiences or you're a chronic pain in the ass complainer.


User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2488 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12734 times:

I think the pride went with the Air France merger. It has been downhill since.



uwhhh KLM still handle's it as before the merger, and it still uses the same dutch people as before the merger...



and the majority are flights operated with those planes, they always have major technical problems; it is gonna be time that those Fokker planes are going to be replaced by a more reliable plane.


huh? they have an 98,7% reliability dispatch.... now thurst me, thats high.... no way KL will replace the F's anytime soon... they are actually adding some F-100 Ex-TAM's and will order F-70's when the production will come alive...

but to fire off 6 letters you either have THE worst luck and have had disastrously bad experiences or you're a chronic pain in the ass complainer.


well i go for the last one... If KL sees somebody is sending 6 complaints, they will most likely see this as spamming...


User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12648 times:

Quoting MauriceB
"huh? They have an 98,7% reliability dispatch.... now thurst me, thats high.... no way KL will replace the F's anytime soon... they are actually adding some F-100 Ex-TAM's and will order F-70's when the production will come alive..."

Recently (if I'm not wrong it was tuesday June 7), KLM Cityhopper cancelled 12 flights in the timespan 06.00h - 10.00h, all flights operated by Fokker aircraft and all cancelled due to mx. And if the flights are not cancelled, than the flights are extremely delayed (up to many hours, for flights that last in average 1,5h). These Fokker planes REALLY have a mx issue, I think this 98,7% reliability dispatch is a foolish %, calculated by a KL manager who wants to get his target/bonus (and mislead topmanagement and customers)

[Edited 2005-06-23 16:36:55]

User currently offlineACVitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12641 times:

MauriceB...

I have had big problems lately....

3 delays exceeding 5 hrs for mechanicals
2 cancellations

All within the last 4 months.

KLM really has started to have issues...

Combined with the "It is Not possible" line I am looking for alternative carriers.

I have written 2 complaints some over a month with no responses.

KLM has issues... This was NOT the case before Air France... And yes the pride is gone with many of the KLM front line staff.


User currently offlineJrMafia90 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12546 times:

I didn't realize KLM had problems like this. I thought they were doing so good.

User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12500 times:

Quoting QM001 (Reply 8):
I had never complained in my life to an airline!

You do seem to enjoy KLM bashing on a.net though. You're forever complaining about some KLM issue. Is it attention grabbing by posting this or is it something else?

Quoting QM001 (Reply 8):
Ask the whole of Holland and I am sure that you will see the feeling is a general one

It is very easy to condemn an airline in general and all its employees based on your experience. BTW, 85% of KLM's customers are non-Dutch. The whole world lovers to fly KLM! Just ask them.



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlineHotje From Netherlands, joined Jul 2004, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11905 times:

eeeehm, people, don't you realise you fly with a European based company and claim your 400 Euro compensation money when overbooked or delayed for more than 2 hours (don't know the exact figure). 400 Euro cash and no vouchers or anything.

They must comply under European law and if they don't just plain sew them. That will certainly teach KLM to be more conservative on their overbooking policy, which is horendous.

BTW Maurice, all company E-mail from KLM are killed by my spam filter. Not that I set it up that way, it just does that naturally.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11744 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 11):
and will order F-70's when the production will come alive...

 rotfl 


User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11691 times:

My only experience on a KL flight was in 2001 on a MEM-AMS-LIS flight. I would tend to agree with the opinions of the above...the pride went out the window with the AF merger.

Regards.


User currently offlineMorvious From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 706 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11515 times:

Quoting QM001 (Thread starter):
There are just two many incidents to mention here

Thats where this board is for you know.. Let us hear all of your complaints.
Now, we know nothing and have to reply to what?

Quoting SK601 (Reply 9):
it is gonna be time that those Fokker planes are going to be replaced by a more reliable plane

Not in a million years.. The F50 are going, but the F70's and 100's are staying for shure.

I fly more with charters then with scheduled flights. But the times I flew with them were great. Maybe you are just spoiled and used to something "better".

KLM is just not one of the best, and we all know that.



have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11483 times:

Quoting Morvious (Reply 19):
KLM is just not one of the best, and we all know that.

And is not one of the worst, and we know that...

KLM is a pretty average airline, nothing more, nothing less.

Rgs,


User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11054 times:

Without bashing KLM, I had the worst expierence in my "aviation-life" with KLM. On the other hand I had also great expierence.

Hard to say, if their pride has gone with the AF-merger.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 20):
KLM is a pretty average airline, nothing more, nothing less.

Rather they have become an average airline, which is sad.


User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10999 times:

Quoting SK601 (Reply 12):
Recently (if I'm not wrong it was tuesday June 7), KLM Cityhopper cancelled 12 flights in the timespan 06.00h - 10.00h, all flights operated by Fokker aircraft and all cancelled due to mx. And if the flights are not cancelled, than the flights are extremely delayed (up to many hours, for flights that last in average 1,5h). These Fokker planes REALLY have a mx issue, I think this 98,7% reliability dispatch is a foolish %, calculated by a KL manager who wants to get his target/bonus (and mislead topmanagement and customers)

The Fokkers are doing very well, it is not for no reason KLM wants more of them.
There is a problem though albeit not related to the aircraft but more to the KLM maintenance which is being restructured at the moment.
In the past all maintenance on the F70 was done by Martinair and the F50/F100 by KL/UK.
Now all maintenance of F70/100 is being moved to Martinair which means that there workload is doubled in just a few months time.
As far as I can see it they are a bit struggling to keep up but I am sure they will get there.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineKDTWFlyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 828 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10872 times:

Quoting PapaNovember (Reply 3):
Is that really cold, or really hot?

Thats around 86 degrees F. here which is kinda warm for the maritime climate of EHAM.



NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
User currently offlineFloris From Netherlands, joined Jun 2003, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10837 times:

If I were KLM, I wouldn't take anybody seriously that wrote 6 letters of complaint in 12 weeks. There are always going to be people around there that can not be satisfied, no matter what. I am Platinum Elite in Flying Blue myself, and fly over 250.000 miles a year on KLM. Service levels are consistent and far above average. Obviously if you fly a lot, you sometimes bump into problems like a delay, luggage that misses a connection, etc. But that happens at every airline. I once experienced a 23 hour delay with SQ, that doesn't make them a bad airline either.

In short: chill out!

Floris

P.S. Where does anybody find the time to write 6 letters of complaint in 12 weeks anyway?


25 Schipholjfk : Why? Where does it say you are limited to a certain number of complaints especially when you are a paying customer. To some degree I agree with this
26 Post contains images Varig md-11 : A.U.B. Floris, cut the consistent and above average???? I fly a lot with KL/AF and neither of them is consistent and certainly not above average for
27 Schipholjfk : Oh you are so right... this was my feeling when I read this. You basically have to be flying everyday to make 250,000 miles a year on any airline (no
28 Post contains images AirTranTUS : Lucky you! In TUS we are about 41 degrees Celsius!
29 Post contains images MauriceB : I didn't realize KLM had problems like this. I thought they were doing so good. they are doing good... and with all my respect towards the KLM bashers
30 Hardiwv : I am also FB Platimum and consider KLM an average airline, as you pointed out above, and I completely agree. Why I fly KLM? Because of AMS, which giv
31 Post contains images Cgnnrw : That my friend is theory. Now let me tell you about the reality..... My boss was scheduled to fly CGN-AMS-BHX three weeks ago. The CGN-AMS flight was
32 Checo77 : KLM is one of the best airlines out there, saving their true identity. Don´t judge just because of one incident. AND, if you don´t like KLM, don´t
33 MH017 : KLM cityhopper never compromizes on safety, so if there is a maintenance-snag which cannot be fixed within a reasonable time, the flights scheduled on
34 Post contains images Morvious : Yeah exactly.. (I also tried to say that, I guess i was to quick with the "post the message" thingy ) KLM didn't loose its pride.. We dutch people di
35 Cgnnrw : I appreciate KL's high regard for safety and maintenance of their aircraft. If they feel an aircraft can't be operated without compromising safety th
36 B744F : This bickering reminds me of sports fans. "My team's better than yours!"
37 Post contains images TGV : I have personally no opinion on KLM now, since I stopped flying them some years ago due to totally uneatable food in long-haul eco (and that was time
38 QM001 : Just as a point of information for all those who now believe that I am a KLM basher. I will categorically deny this. I love KLM and will defend them u
39 Aviopic : The process is almost completed MH017, spoke someone from KL/UK just today and they have just 3 F100 left. By the end of July all F100 will have been
40 Brons2 : I too have taken a lengthy delay on the KLM Cityhopper portion of my DFW-MEM-AMS-FRA routing back in September. I took this routing so I could fly on
41 Patroni : Until 2001 I have been a very frequent customer on KLM. Based on my personal experiences regarding consistently good service and excellent support in
42 Post contains images Cxsjr : I have travelled KLM on a number of occasions, as well as Air France. I can only say that all my flights have been at least average and at best, excel
43 ACVitale : FYI, As I found from an 18 hour delay they do not need to pay the compensation only provide hotel, meal and a phone call. They did it and I had no acc
44 Post contains images LX23 : Once again Hardi, your post is pretty much on the dot! I've flown KL various times in the past 18 years, and have always found that their best sellin
45 Post contains images Cxsjr : Hi LX23, in fact you couldn't be more wrong. This was an LHR-BCN flight. Should've been a MAN-BCN flight but they cancelled that weeks before when th
46 Wingspan : Please, for the sake of all involved, find a way to phrase your post that does not waste our time. You do not comprise any large part of KLM revenues
47 ACDC8 : I've flown KLM many, many times (both long & short haul, biz and econo classes) over the last several years and have never had reason to complain. My
48 AMSGOT : You know what, QM001? You should become a Dutchman, like me! Our biggest spare time activity is complaining! I would like to note though, since I'm an
49 CV990 : Hi guys! Everybody can have a bad day, including KLM and other very good airlines like BA, SWISS, LH, Singapore, Thai, Emirates....... But seriously I
50 SpeedbirdEGJJ : My dear friend, this really does show how ignorant you are to the aspects of the EU Legislation recently introduced. If the delay and or cancellation
51 Aerokiwi : I had a few questions re. my booking in the last few weeks and used the 'Contact Us' button on their webpage. I sent the message but never got a 'Conf
52 MauriceB : FYI, As I found from an 18 hour delay they do not need to pay the compensation only provide hotel, meal and a phone call. They did it and I had no acc
53 SR 103 : No offense to the KLM bashers on this board, but as someone who has flown a lot of airlines, I can honestly say I have more positive comments to make
54 CV990 : Hi! I remember before I flew with KLM I got information that the airline was quite poor and then...... I don't know....this all depends on your mood,
55 Mandala499 : QM001, Hmm, was it 1 - 14th June in AMS where U got the delays? I have one advise for you... Quit Complaining and fly someone else! I did that with an
56 Post contains images JRadier : My flight was once delayed to to the mech. staff going to stike and wouldn't sign off the plane for flying. Such delays/cancellations are also counte
57 ACVitale : The danger with assuming things is that inevitably you are WRONG! That delay was a mechanical in AMS. The weather was perfect the staff, KLM, and the
58 Post contains links and images Keesje : Bull (IMO). Of course things go wrong if you are operating a worldwide network transporting millions of world citizens. Taking out one incident and c
59 Post contains links ACVitale : Again... One incident is forgivable. When it becomes a pattern things are not so good. The comments on the FF program differ greatly from these made
60 Lijnden : KLM is longest surviving airline around and is even older than your country Ghana! KLM was a private company trading on several financial markets BEF
61 ACVitale : Another assumption while I may be in Ghana that does not mean I am Ghanaian. Also Chalk's Ocean Airways is older and longer surviving as has been poi
62 ACDC8 : In all the years that I have flow KLM, I've only been delayed twice. The first time we were delayed for 3 hours due to mx problems in YVR and were tr
63 MauriceB : I guess we have two completely views on reality. think im on youre side of the views... i never occured any problem at AMS/schiphol , and since if bee
64 CV990 : Hi! I think the issue here is "delay" on a flight, well that can happen out of AMS or out the country were you board your flight. For example, if you
65 SK601 : Well said CV990, we need to get rid off the "time is money" slogan. Also for our business travelers. Reducing stress by allowing yourself more time wi
66 Post contains images LX23 : I think you are all ganging up on ACVitale a little. It's quite funny how ignorant some people can be, especially when their thoughts are of the sort
67 MauriceB : It's quite funny how ignorant some people can be, especially when their thoughts are of the sort "He's Ghanaian, what does he know?" (Even if he's not
68 Post contains images LX23 : MauriceB: Your post wasnt the one that I'm talking about... and I haven't missed "about 80%" of the discussion... Not posting at every reply isn't the
69 Schipholjfk : As a Platinum elite I constantly fly KLM and I completely agree with you. While KLM's service is acceptable at best, one has to be blind not to notic
70 Post contains links Lijnden : True, I just looked at the flag and assumed you were Ghanian As far as I know Chalk's did declare bankruptcy and was branded for a while as Pan Am. S
71 Post contains images LX23 : First of all, I didn't say that slavery was equal to racism. However, slavery in some cases was furthered upon the premise that "these savages are no
72 CV990 : Hi LX23. Well if I had my KLM flights on time, for me..... it's an 100% on-time!!! So if I'm logic next time if I have to choose......well...... I mig
73 Jrebel : As a regular KL pax of almost 46 years' standing, I figure I know from experience where KL is coming from, and where it is heading : downhill. As seve
74 Post contains images MauriceB : As a regular KL pax of almost 46 years' standing youre profile say's you aren't older than 45 years
75 Nwafflyer : Have a good friend - platinum elite with KLM who has been trying to book award travel on skyteam through KLM with absolutely no success. Flights are o
76 Prebennorholm : Danish press recently reported about a European investigation about lost baggage. KLM came out worst with 22 bags out of 1000 carried not making it on
77 Jakarta : I last flew with KLM in 2003,my flight from NCL to AMS was delayed,trying to get info from KLM was a joke,got to AMS to find my flight was overbooked
78 Jrebel : That's correct. Not counting flights made whilst still in my mother's womb, I made my first KLM flight (WAW-AMS in a Vickers Viscount) in December 19
79 Beauing : It's really easy to convert Celsius to Fahrenheit Just go to Google and type 30 C to F (hit ENTER) 30 degrees Celsius = 86 degrees Fahrenheit You can
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