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Is SAS Missing Out On SFO?  
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2050 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3226 times:

I was speaking tonight to the 2nd Officer of Iceland air at SFO tonight and he stated that a high percentage of their passengers are connecting from the Scandinavian region. I know SAS had plans, before 911, to start service into SFO but I wonder if this is something they are missing out? Maybe they do not have enough long haul aircraft?


John@SFO
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3077 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3206 times:

I do know that there seems to be a decent number of SFO passengers connecting to SK at SEA.

Last summer I was on a SFO-SEA flight which was running late. Apparently this flight was timed to connect people to SK. I never would have imagined that people from SFO connect to SEA to go to Europe, but they actually had to hold the SAS flight because there were 25+ passengers (on a 733) connecting to it from SFO. On this flight, they announced that there would be a bus shuttle to the waiting CPH flight, and it was interesting to see a long line of people getting on that bus.

Anyway, I think SK would do well in SFO. They are quite limited in the US right now, although they may have aircraft limitations preventing new cities. I suppose the UA/LH connections in FRA and connecting service to the SEA/ORD/EWR flights will do for now.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3199 times:

The problem with trans-Atlantic flights to California, and a reason why some airlines have pulled out of LAX/SFO in the past few years, is that the long stage length needs to be made up for with stronger yields. Unfortunatley, that is not often the case outside of the normal strong performing markets (LHR/FRA/CDG), and airlines, like SAS, find that they are better off using those planes on more profitable services to Asia. The amount of time an aircraft is needed to be utilized on SFO-CPH just about the same than it takes to be used on CPH-PVG or CPH-NRT, for example, two more profitable markets.

With East Coast markets, an aircraft is not utilized as much, and yields don't need to be as strong.

The reverse is true for Asian carriers to the East Coast.



a.
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24785 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3183 times:

SK was indeed seriously planning a SFO flight to tie into UA's hub prior to 9/11.

SAS did not have a shortage of passengers nor cargo on its LAX services which it operate continuously since having pioneered the polar route in 1954 using a DC-6.
The death to the LAX route was attributed partly to the very high cost structure of SAS and the carriers inability effectively compete yield wise in a very competitive market with many airlines like BA, KLM, Lufthansa offering more appealing connections via their hubs.
Scandinavia in itself is a small market and much of SAS long haul network has to rely on connections in particular to other Northern European and former Soviet Union destinations for it to succeed.
SAS maintained its Seattle service as it has been successfully been able to build a nice market in what is a much less competitive European market.

It would be nice to see SAS back in California again, however besides the current lack of widebody equipment I am not sure any of the reasons why SAS withdrew to begin with have vanished. The carrier still maintains a very high cost base and still maintains a relatively small home market and must continue to rely on beyond connection traffic to sustain its CPH hub.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineN77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

SK can't even manage operating New York service to all its hubs well enough...now they want to look at SFO?

It looks like Icelandair has foud a good Y-class niche in the budget traveler in these two large tourist markets. Yields will now be too low for SK to risk an A330 on the route.


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6086 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2955 times:

United is not the only airline feeding SAS as SEA. Alaska has a large number of passengers as well. I've had up to 20-25 passengers cnx to SAS on some of the flights I have worked. I would say if SAS brought in some leased 763 (hard to find now) or added a few A332 then maybe they could go through with a SFO start-up. The 763 really was the perfect plane for the west coast market, they will be missed.

Legacy, what's Icelandair's loads like?

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

FI hauls a lot of traffic into Scandinavia from all of their U.S. Cities. It's fast, and dependable. ... and it's just the begining!


737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2910 times:

It was a big disappointment that SAS decided not to inaugurte its SFO services in 2002. SFO pulled out all the plugs in advertising it. Counter space was even allocates behind the Uniteds counters in the International Terminal, and I beleiee UA was going to be the handling agent. Once SAS gets it flet situation and finances under better control, I suspect that the CPH-SFO route may be revisited.

SFO has been desperately trying to lure more carriers to the airport, especially to fill up the International Terminal with has a lot of idle space. In fact outside of the late evening departures to Europe and the late, late night departures to Asia, the terminal can seem quite empty. WestJet was origianlly going to be allocated space in the South Terminal through a sublease with CO, but with favorabe direct lease arrangements decided to opt for the International Terminal. In fact, the terminal is now used for some domestic services such as Air Tran and Independence Air. I understand there's also en effort to relocate Air Canada to the International Terminal.

Air India is making preparations and is searching for property to open its local sales offices, and Emirates execs have been in town too. These are attempts to backfill the loss from Alitalia, Swissair and Aeroflot pulling out.

I think there needs ot be a direct outreach to some of the European/Canadian charters who could rake in the $$ on the tourist base. Now that the post-911 flying fears are gone I think that the likes of LTU, Thomas Cook, MyTravel, Martinair, Corsair, Skyservice, and Air Transat could do well, even with low frequencies. A few years back, these types opted for OAK (at least Martinair, Corsair, and Citybird) because of lower costs, but fees are becoming more comparable across the Bay.


User currently offlineJfrworld From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

Quote:
Quoting MAH4546... The problem with trans-Atlantic flights to California, and a reason why some airlines have pulled out of LAX/SFO in the past few years, is that the long stage length needs to be made up for with stronger yields. Unfortunatley, that is not often the case outside of the normal strong performing markets (LHR/FRA/CDG), and airlines, like SAS, find that they are better off using those planes on more profitable services to Asia. The amount of time an aircraft is needed to be utilized on SFO-CPH just about the same than it takes to be used on CPH-PVG or CPH-NRT, for example, two more profitable markets.

With East Coast markets, an aircraft is not utilized as much, and yields don't need to be as strong.

The reverse is true for Asian carriers to the East Coast.

This is a very good explaination of how stage length can impact your route structure. Thanks  Smile


User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2797 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 5):
Legacy, what's Icelandair's loads like?

The loads have been fairly decent. For the past week:

6/16 212pax
6/18 258 pax
6/20 253 pax
6/22 256 pax
6/23 241 pax



John@SFO
User currently offlineAMSSFO From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 952 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2730 times:

I am not surprised that many people use FI to fly to Scandinavia. FI was advertising with "the fastest connection to Scandinavia" when they started the SFO-KEF service.

Quoting Legacyins (Thread starter):
Legacyins

did the FI officer at SFO tell you how FI is doing with on-time flying? Someone on this forum complained a while ago about huge delays on the flights SFO-KEF. No idea whether that's true, but I can imaging that having only one 767 may make it difficult to keep running on-time.


User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2712 times:

AMSFO. Funny you shouls say that. Monday's flight (6/20) departed 3 hours late.

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