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LGW-AMS On EZY: £10 Tax. BA: £45.50. Why?  
User currently offlineJoshdean From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 130 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3717 times:

I have just been on both the easyJet and BA website to compare prices on flying from Gatwick to Amsterdam, departing on 1st October and returning a week later on the 8th. BA comes up with a total price of £80.50 including £45.50 tax, whilst easyJet gives a total price of £40.98 including £10 tax.

So why the £35.50 difference in tax? BA's website states that there is £2.50 per sector charge for for insurance and security rates and a £6.00 per sector fuel surcharge, totalling £17 per European flight. That's still a difference of £18.50 even if these 'surcharges' are justified.

To make this even worse, BA has just announced that it will be increasing it's surcharges by around 50% as of 27th June.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4617977.stm

Surely BA have more buying power than the likes of easyJet and most other airlines, so why aren't we seeing these 'surcharges' from airlines such as easyJet?

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3690 times:

Someone's got to pay for the BA Mainline staff bonus!

Andy  old  retiring



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3186 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 1 day ago) and read 3651 times:

Well, easyJet is on certain routes not showing the real amount of airport tax. It's a kind of marketing/PR issue.

When flying out of AMS, easyJet mentions a EUR 7,50 airport tax for Schiphol. Transavia mentions 35,95 including 10 euro fuel & insurance surcharge.

I once mailed Transavia about it, why they charged more. They called me back within 2 or 3 days and told that (at the time their tax was 25 something euroes) the AMS charge was around 25 euro for every airline. Easyjet also paid 27 euros, but did not mention it, and calculated it in the fare price.

Later I read an interview with a Schiphol manager, who told the same thing.

By the way, can someone explain me why a fuel surcharge should be mentioned differently and not in the advertised price?? What will we get more? Captain and F/O surcharge? Lease term surcharge? Aren't fuel and insurance considered as the prime costs of every airline?


User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 1 day ago) and read 3639 times:

Ba fly to LHR, a more expensive airport which will cost a bit more than LTN or STN. BA also have a fuel surcharge included in the price, which pushes the fees up.


No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 1 day ago) and read 3597 times:

BA has a frequent fly scheme and keeps charges high to lessen the benefit of miles.

User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 3573 times:

Call me cynical (and I fly easyJet whenever appropriate), but maybe the refund on the security charge means that easyJet "lose" less money by people not flying and demanding a security charge refund? The fare portion of the ticket isn't necessarily refundable, but the security fees should be. However, the administration fee for refunding the security charge happens to be the same...

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 3):
Ba fly to LHR, a more expensive airport which will cost a bit more than LTN or STN. BA also have a fuel surcharge included in the price, which pushes the fees up.

Joshdean is talking about Gatwick, not Heathrow. BA fly from AMS to both LGW and LHR (BA81xx and BA04xx flights respectively).

Geoff M.


User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3186 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 3558 times:

Geoffm: I would'nt be too surprised if that is the reason!

User currently offlineJoshdean From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 1):
Someone's got to pay for the BA Mainline staff bonus!

LOL! And the champers at the shareholders meeting.  drunk 

Thanks Joost, it makes sense.

I don't think you are being cynical Geoffm, that sounds fairly likely to be the case.


User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 3538 times:

Quoting Richardw (Reply 4):
BA has a frequent fly scheme and keeps charges high to lessen the benefit of miles.

That's a good point. I can fly to Europe cheaper on easyJet and co than by using my BA miles to claim a "free" flight. Why? Because you still pay the taxes on BA with your "free" flight.

Geoff M.


User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 3528 times:

Another interesting one is SOU-EDI, the fare is GBP10, and taxes, fees and surcharges GBP44.50, more than 4 times the fare.


BA7863 Southampton,United Kingdom Edinburgh,United Kingdom Economy (Traveller) Thu 3 November 2005 ,10:30 Thu 3 November 2005 , 11:45
Inbound BA7868 Edinburgh,United Kingdom Southampton,United Kingdom Economy (Traveller) Tue 8 November 2005 ,19:40 Tue 8 November 2005 , 20:55

Price breakdown
Fare per person

plus taxes, fees, charges and surcharges*

per person Total
1 Adult £ 10.00 £ 44.50 £ 54.50


User currently offlineFlyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 3502 times:

Quoting Joshdean (Thread starter):
So why the £35.50 difference in tax? BA's website states that there is £2.50 per sector charge for for insurance and security rates and a £6.00 per sector fuel surcharge, totalling £17 per European flight. That's still a difference of £18.50 even if these 'surcharges' are justified.

Joshdean, the answer is very simple! Easyjet is better at negotiating lower airport taxes/charges than BA does. Back in the good old days it was even the case that certain airports PAID THE LCCs to fly from their airport (instead of the other way around) because of the passenger traffic they created to help the airport grow. While I doubt that this is still the case, I am still sure that LCCs have more bargaining power than the traditional airlines.

You must also take into account that it probably also has something to do with the level of service offered. It could be that BA parks their aircraft near the terminal (or via a pier), where as Easyjet will park remotely to keep the costs low and take their passengers to the aircraft by bus.

And last but not least (I am not sure if BA includes this in their fares or in their taxes) BA has the fuel surcharge and so on, which Easyjet made very clear they will NOT make the passengers pay.

Those are my 3 reasons anyways. Hope it makes sense  Wink



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlineJoshdean From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 10):
You must also take into account that it probably also has something to do with the level of service offered.

Thanks FlyAUA. I guess LCCs having to turnaround the aircraft quicker makes a difference as they are less time on the concrete. Add to that the funny times of the day a large number of LCC flights arrive and depart also keeps their prices down.


User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

BA may make the charges, but I bet they don't allocate them directly because their costs are lower, same as FR make all those wheelchair levies and don't spend the funds on wheelchairs.

On a U2 156 seat A319 the Government tax is £5 per seat, now if the flight is overbooked, U2 pockets the difference, not the government.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7303 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 3427 times:

When BA signs corporate deals, the deal is for the pre tax price.... anything added onto the tax gets charged to the corporate companies...

Only look at the post tax price - £80 return for BA is excellent value. £40 for Ezy is for nothing.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

The U2 fare is also changeable, the BA fare isn't.

User currently offlineFlyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 3398 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 13):
Only look at the post tax price - £80 return for BA is excellent value. £40 for Ezy is for nothing.

I'd still fly Easyjet  tongue 

I can buy myself that food for 5 quid, and I also get to pick my own seat  Wink

And from my limited experience with BA, I've noticed Easyjet are more punctual too.



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlineTrident2e From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 3368 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 2):
Well, easyJet is on certain routes not showing the real amount of airport tax. It's a kind of marketing/PR issue.

Absolute rubbish!

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 3):
Ba fly to LHR, a more expensive airport which will cost a bit more than LTN or STN

Absolutely irrelevant!

UK Air Passenger Duty is the ONLY tax payable by the airline on LGW/AMS and it is £10 for a return journey. Any other charge listed by the airline is manufactured to extract more money out of people than would otherwise be the case. BA started this odious practice some years ago - easyJet, to its credit, is one of the few airlines that is absolutely honest about the amount of TAX that has to be paid.


User currently offlineJoshdean From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 3361 times:

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 15):
I'd still fly Easyjet

I can buy myself that food for 5 quid, and I also get to pick my own seat

Agreed FlyAUA, especially as it's double the price for only a one hour flight. I can think of lots of ways to spend £40 in Amsterdam, and I don't mean on food  biggrin 


User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2915 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 21 hours ago) and read 3320 times:

Same thing between LIS and AMS, TP's base fare is 64,50 one-way, KL base fare is about 89,50. Surprise surprise, the taxes result in a final price difference of one euro. Besides, TP has a digusting habit of charging a service fee separately that does not show up on the final price calculation on the website (it's a hidden .xls file that you really have to look for). I think there should be an EU-regulation very very very soon forbidding this kind of garbage. What you see must be what you pay, in the end it's the final price that passengers pay and the vast majority don't care which part of that goes to the airport and which to the airline. Furthermore, the fuel supplements. What on earth is the meaning of a base fare without surcharges, without taxes, without service fee? Can you imagine being quoted a train ticket price without a station tax, without an electricity surcharge? Completely ridiculous. Please European Commission, do something - this is the sort of situation where we need you more than anywhere else....


I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 18 hours ago) and read 3247 times:

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 10):
And last but not least (I am not sure if BA includes this in their fares or in their taxes) BA has the fuel surcharge and so on, which Easyjet made very clear they will NOT make the passengers pay.

What a joke! It's been discussed in another threat... Airlines DO NOT "swallow" the increase in fuel prices, it would ruin them! Some airlines (ie: BA/VS) are honest about fuel surcharging, and others (ie: EZ, U2) simply remove the cheapest fares from their system to compensate.

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 15):
I can buy myself that food for 5 quid, and I also get to pick my own seat

Erm... You can pick your seat on www.ba.com before you even get to the airport/aircraft!

Safe flying.


User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3713 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 18 hours ago) and read 3234 times:

Quoting Geoffm (Reply 8):
I can fly to Europe cheaper on easyJet and co than by using my BA miles to claim a "free" flight. Why? Because you still pay the taxes on BA with your "free" flight.

People who use miles on European flights are crettins for this very reason.



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 18 hours ago) and read 3206 times:

Quoting Joshdean (Thread starter):
including £45.50 tax

please do not call the fuel surcharge a tax or include it in your tax "package."

a tax is imposed by a government. the fuel surcharge is a scheme by which the airlines back the higher fuel costs out of their fares to be able to advertise a lower fare, and I think it is criminal to do so. For one thing, it creates an artificial sense among customers that fares should be lower than they need to be to run the airline, which in the long run, only hurts the airlines.

cell phone companies in the US do this with all sorts of fees. They are not taxes, but costs of doing business (license fees, for instance), but they are passed on to consumers not in the base rate, but in some stupid line items which make it sound like it is a government tax, which it is not.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 18 hours ago) and read 3201 times:

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 20):
People who use miles on European flights are crettins for this very reason

So I either lose the miles and let BA pocket the value, or a use the tiny amount I've earnt just to get something out of it. If you think I'm a crettin (sic) for doing so, then that's your choice. Do you think I ought to save up for 20 years just so I can claim my "free" (plus taxes and surcharges) trans-Atlantic flight?

Geoff M.


User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3713 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 18 hours ago) and read 3189 times:

Quoting Geoffm (Reply 22):
So I either lose the miles and let BA pocket the value, or a use the tiny amount I've earnt just to get something out of it. If you think I'm a crettin (sic) for doing so, then that's your choice. Do you think I ought to save up for 20 years just so I can claim my "free" (plus taxes and surcharges) trans-Atlantic flight?

Should have put a caveat....

Presuming you are regularly getting miles then using them for European flights is foolish. For 12k miles you can get a ticket in Euro Traveller to Paris, which for randomly selected dates is £57 + £48.30 taxes = £105.30. Your 12,000 miles have got you £57 of flight. At the other end of the scale you could use 25,000 miles to upgrade a flight from London to San Francisco from World Traveller Plus to Club World. WT+ fare before tax = £2021.40. Club World fare before tax is £4911.00.

While you may not have 'saved' money by doing this you are making your miles go a lot further.



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 3146 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 2):

By the way, can someone explain me why a fuel surcharge should be mentioned differently and not in the advertised price?? What will we get more? Captain and F/O surcharge? Lease term surcharge? Aren't fuel and insurance considered as the prime costs of every airline?

In the United States, all carrier imposed charges and fees must be included in an advertised price. For example, an airline could say New York to Miami for $75 and then have, say, a $10 fee in small print at the bottom. It would have to read New York to Miami for $85. Now government and airport fees do not have to be advertised in the price.

AAndrew


25 Geoffm : I hadn't realised the upgrades were relatively good value compared to the Euro flights. However, at the current rate it would still take me 6 LON-NYC
26 BHXFAOTIPYYC : You're missing the fuel surcharge (YQ tax code on the ticket). People are often comparing U2 or FR to BA on point to point, but it's like comparing ap
27 BHXFAOTIPYYC : .... oh, and don't forget the EZY credit card fee (+/- £6) - non on ba.com .. as I said all things are not equal...
28 BAxMAN : Perhaps by not restructuring their FF scheme (being cruel to be kind) and adapting to the market that they now serve is a reason why CO are perilousl
29 Post contains images FlyAUA : Easyjet made a very big fuss about this and made BA look bad the first time they did it. They really do not charge you for fuel surcharge. So believe
30 BAxMAN : Followed by a completely unexaggerated and impartial statement from Michael O'Leary.
31 FlyAUA : Which one? I only ever read the Easyjet press release.
32 Jacobin777 : I can give my point of view...for the avarge out of country pax, its easier to arrive at LHR and switch gates/terminal then it is to arrive at LHR, ge
33 Joshdean : Thanks Ikamerica, but I'm afraid I will call it a tax. If we are going to get technical about the definitions of the word 'tax' I suggest you take a
34 Post contains links and images FlyAUA : You just gotta love EasyJet for their highly controversial "latest news" section. It's great to read articles like this one - makes me crack up "Bye B
35 Post contains links and images Joshdean : This one takes some beating though as far as easyJet and controversy go. I remember reading it last year and managed to find a link... http://www.int
36 Post contains images FlyAUA : Hahah funny story indeed! Silly how some people are so far up their own arse though... the pilot was just making a light-hearted joke. Everyone knows
37 Richardw : I have found that LGW is a joke free base, which is quite good.
38 Post contains links and images FlyAUA : While we were at it... I stumbled across this while reading my news before bedtime. What a co-incidence... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/461797
39 Richardw : No need for fuel surcharges on easyJet, the price goes up according to demand Friday 26 August London Gatwick to Nice flight 5067; dep. Fri 26 Aug 18:
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