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Pic Of The Day (KLM) And Etops  
User currently offlineFbm3rd From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10935 times:

looking at the pic of the day (KLM-B777-865698) Under the nose gear it says "ETOPS" on the door. do all etops aircraft have etops written on it somewhere? This is the first time I have seen that I guess I have not been looking hard enough?

Thanx

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Photo © William van Wanrooy



25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6764 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10924 times:

I have seen ETOPS written on a couple of aircraft, I think they were CO and US..


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineMorvious From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 707 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10816 times:

Here is a search result with etops
Etops result

Some nice examples


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Photo © Brenden




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Photo © Rui Sousa - Madeira Spotters



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Photo © Ken Cheung



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Photo © T.Laurent



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Photo © Wim Callaert - Brussels Aviation Photography



My question.. What is the reason to put it on the plane? Is it also related to the ground crew or something like that?



have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
User currently offlineN34 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10768 times:

ETOPS is stenciled on the aircraft to remind the ground crew and the maintenance technicians that the aircraft is an ETOPS certified aircraft. These aircraft have different maintenance requirements than a normal aircraft and not all maintenance technicians are authorized to work on them. They must have specific ETOPS training. Not all airlines stencil their aircraft. It's purely an air carrier option.

User currently offlineMorvious From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 707 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10748 times:

Quoting N34 (Reply 3):
ETOPS is stenciled on the aircraft to remind the ground crew and the maintenance technicians that the aircraft is an ETOPS certified aircraft. These aircraft have different maintenance requirements than a normal aircraft and not all maintenance technicians are authorized to work on them. They must have specific ETOPS training. Not all airlines stencil their aircraft. It's purely an air carrier option.

Hmm i was close with the ground crew thingy then!!

Thanks for explaining.. Aviation can be hard to understand...



have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
User currently offlineFbm3rd From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10717 times:

thanks peoples...i was wondering if it was required or not...what extra training is required?

User currently offlineGregg From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10695 times:

I think it is required when an airline operates a mixed fleet of ETOPS and non-ETOPS on the same type of aircraft. IE., CO 757 domestics are not ETOPS, so the international ETOPS 757 need the words on them.

User currently offlineN34 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10661 times:

Training depends on the air carrier. They all set their own training programs and authorizations. For some carriers, all maintenance technicians maybe ETOPS qualified. Others may have only a select few qualified. On ETOPS certified aircraft, maintenance is more closely monitored and somethings are prohibited...like engine maintenance on both engines for example. An aircraft must fly a "verification" leg...usually 60 minutes....prior to being released on an ETOPS leg. And by the way, these are US requirements. I'm not sure of other countries.

User currently offlineN34 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10633 times:

Quoting Gregg (Reply 6):

Not always true. AA, for example, operates a mixed fleet of ETOPS 757s and non-ETOPS 757s and they don't placard their aircraft.


User currently offlineFbm3rd From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10524 times:

does it cost extra to get a craft ETOPS certified?

User currently offlineChugach From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10300 times:

On my NW 753 from ANC-OGG-ANC ETOPS was stamped on the front of the plane.

Fbm3rd, yes it does cost more.



GO ROCKETS
User currently offlineVT977 From India, joined May 2005, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10292 times:

Engine Turns Or Passengers Swim

[Edited 2005-06-25 01:32:59]


A conclusion is what you reach when you get tired of thinking.
User currently offlineN34 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10151 times:

Fbm3rd,
It's difficult to pin down the costs of an ETOPS airplane. It is much more expensive than a regular airplane. Special inspections are required. Plus, parts for ETOPS have to be specially maintained...so those parts will cost more from the repair stations. This is a good example of why an airline doesn't keep all of their aircraft ETOPS.


User currently offlineSfilipowicz From Netherlands, joined Jul 2002, 327 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8260 times:

Hmm maybe a stupid question, but what does ETOPS mean?
I often see it on the forums but have no qlue what is means.

Could anybody help me out? Thanks!


User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8213 times:

Extended Twin Operations. A set of regulations that imply that two-engined airlines can fly long sectors where no diversion airport is close. (like over-water sections).

A nice explantion is here: http://gc.kls2.com/faq.html#$etops

I rmember having read somewhere, that ETOPS is not really about reduced aircraft range because of the lack of one engine, but differently.

An airliner like a 767 or 777 could easily fly transatlantic sectors on only one engine. It is powerfull enough for it, the engines are only working on a small percentage of their power anyways. One GE90-90 engine as featured in the 777-200ER can provide almost as much power as 3 A340 engines. So that is not the problem.

However, the compressor for cabin presurization is directly connected to the engines. There is a compressor on both engines. When one engine is out, that compressor won't work anymore and you have lost your redundancy.

The reliability of those compressors is lower than that of the engine. As the risk is too high to fly at 30.000+ ft and then losing cabin pressurization, the airliner will have to lower altitude. And as the air is thicker at lower altitudes, the engine needs a lot more power to fly, and so the range is being drasticly reduced.

I can't find the source of this anymore so I have no clue if it is true or a hoax. Is there any expert here?

[Edited 2005-06-25 13:40:30]

User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8132 times:

what exactly does ETOPS mean i cant work it out and i feel left out as everybody seems to know what this is  ashamed 


You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineRjmxsdf From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7949 times:

some other ETOPs requirements are provisions to fight fires in the baggage and engine compts

User currently offlineTrident2e From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7645 times:

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 15):
what exactly does ETOPS mean

Extended Twin Operations


User currently offlineTymnBalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 948 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7301 times:

What, if anything, is the difference between ETOPS and EROPS?

C.



Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineCactusTECH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7083 times:

Extended Twin Engine Operation or Engine Turns Or People Swim= ETOPS

User currently offlineKBGRbillT From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6450 times:

It is actually Extended-range Twin-engine Operations!!

User currently offlineLY4XELD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 857 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6438 times:

Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 18):
What, if anything, is the difference between ETOPS and EROPS?

I could be wrong, but I think ETOPS is specific to twin engined aircraft, where EROPS is Extended Range Operations, which may or may not be applicable to 2 engine a/c (i.e. a 747).

Quoting Fbm3rd (Reply 9):
does it cost extra to get a craft ETOPS certified?

Certification is the responsibility of the manufacturer, i.e. Boeing or Airbus, etc. A maintenance program must be in place by the airline to make sure that the a/c flying ETOPS has all the necessary equipment in place to fly an ETOPS route. So, certain components that may be allowed to be inoperative on a non-ETOPS flight may not be able to fly an ETOPS route, hence more cost in getting that component on the airplane before the route, which can lead to more delays, cancellations, etc. which all cost extra $$ for the airline. ETOPS programs in the US are monitored by the FAA.



That's why we're here.
User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7485 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6393 times:

The UA 757 I flew on LAX-LIH had "ETOPS" on it.

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'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5815 times:

ETOPS stands for Extended Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards, but we always call it "Engines Turn Or People Swim...

[Edited 2005-06-25 18:39:15]


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineN34 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 4854 times:

Extended-Range Operation With Two-Engine Airplanes (ETOPS) are operations conducted over a route containing a point further than one hour flying time at the normal one-engine inoperative cruise speed from an adequate airport. An ETOPS authorization requires a deviation to the operating rule of 14 CFR part 121.161.
Translated, this means air carriers cannot fly more than 60 minutes from a suitable airport. The ETOPS authorization allows air carriers to deviate from this requirement. This authorization is given to individual carriers via Operations Specifications. The Ops Spec will list each aircraft by tail number and the limit of their ETOPS authorization...180 minutes, 240 minutes etc. Not all carriers will have the same authorization, and the maximum limit is set by the FAA. I think it's a bit over 240 minutes now. That number represents the longest planned leg of an oceanic crossing and is limited by aircraft type and airline capability.
So, does this make it clearer...or muddier???


User currently offlineOO-AOG From Switzerland, joined Dec 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 4
Reply 25, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

ETOPS regulations are not only issued by US FAA but by many other CAAs worldwide as well....


Falcon....like a limo but with wings
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