Fbm3rd From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9140 times:
looking at the pic of the day (KLM-B777-865698) Under the nose gear it says "ETOPS" on the door. do all etops aircraft have etops written on it somewhere? This is the first time I have seen that I guess I have not been looking hard enough?
N34 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 9 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8973 times:
ETOPS is stenciled on the aircraft to remind the ground crew and the maintenance technicians that the aircraft is an ETOPS certified aircraft. These aircraft have different maintenance requirements than a normal aircraft and not all maintenance technicians are authorized to work on them. They must have specific ETOPS training. Not all airlines stencil their aircraft. It's purely an air carrier option.
Morvious From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 702 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8953 times:
Quoting N34 (Reply 3): ETOPS is stenciled on the aircraft to remind the ground crew and the maintenance technicians that the aircraft is an ETOPS certified aircraft. These aircraft have different maintenance requirements than a normal aircraft and not all maintenance technicians are authorized to work on them. They must have specific ETOPS training. Not all airlines stencil their aircraft. It's purely an air carrier option.
Hmm i was close with the ground crew thingy then!!
Thanks for explaining.. Aviation can be hard to understand...
Gregg From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 327 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8900 times:
I think it is required when an airline operates a mixed fleet of ETOPS and non-ETOPS on the same type of aircraft. IE., CO 757 domestics are not ETOPS, so the international ETOPS 757 need the words on them.
N34 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 9 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8866 times:
Training depends on the air carrier. They all set their own training programs and authorizations. For some carriers, all maintenance technicians maybe ETOPS qualified. Others may have only a select few qualified. On ETOPS certified aircraft, maintenance is more closely monitored and somethings are prohibited...like engine maintenance on both engines for example. An aircraft must fly a "verification" leg...usually 60 minutes....prior to being released on an ETOPS leg. And by the way, these are US requirements. I'm not sure of other countries.
N34 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 9 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8356 times:
It's difficult to pin down the costs of an ETOPS airplane. It is much more expensive than a regular airplane. Special inspections are required. Plus, parts for ETOPS have to be specially maintained...so those parts will cost more from the repair stations. This is a good example of why an airline doesn't keep all of their aircraft ETOPS.
I rmember having read somewhere, that ETOPS is not really about reduced aircraft range because of the lack of one engine, but differently.
An airliner like a 767 or 777 could easily fly transatlantic sectors on only one engine. It is powerfull enough for it, the engines are only working on a small percentage of their power anyways. One GE90-90 engine as featured in the 777-200ER can provide almost as much power as 3 A340 engines. So that is not the problem.
However, the compressor for cabin presurization is directly connected to the engines. There is a compressor on both engines. When one engine is out, that compressor won't work anymore and you have lost your redundancy.
The reliability of those compressors is lower than that of the engine. As the risk is too high to fly at 30.000+ ft and then losing cabin pressurization, the airliner will have to lower altitude. And as the air is thicker at lower altitudes, the engine needs a lot more power to fly, and so the range is being drasticly reduced.
I can't find the source of this anymore so I have no clue if it is true or a hoax. Is there any expert here?
I could be wrong, but I think ETOPS is specific to twin engined aircraft, where EROPS is Extended Range Operations, which may or may not be applicable to 2 engine a/c (i.e. a 747).
Quoting Fbm3rd (Reply 9): does it cost extra to get a craft ETOPS certified?
Certification is the responsibility of the manufacturer, i.e. Boeing or Airbus, etc. A maintenance program must be in place by the airline to make sure that the a/c flying ETOPS has all the necessary equipment in place to fly an ETOPS route. So, certain components that may be allowed to be inoperative on a non-ETOPS flight may not be able to fly an ETOPS route, hence more cost in getting that component on the airplane before the route, which can lead to more delays, cancellations, etc. which all cost extra $$ for the airline. ETOPS programs in the US are monitored by the FAA.
N34 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 9 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3059 times:
Extended-Range Operation With Two-Engine Airplanes (ETOPS) are operations conducted over a route containing a point further than one hour flying time at the normal one-engine inoperative cruise speed from an adequate airport. An ETOPS authorization requires a deviation to the operating rule of 14 CFR part 121.161.
Translated, this means air carriers cannot fly more than 60 minutes from a suitable airport. The ETOPS authorization allows air carriers to deviate from this requirement. This authorization is given to individual carriers via Operations Specifications. The Ops Spec will list each aircraft by tail number and the limit of their ETOPS authorization...180 minutes, 240 minutes etc. Not all carriers will have the same authorization, and the maximum limit is set by the FAA. I think it's a bit over 240 minutes now. That number represents the longest planned leg of an oceanic crossing and is limited by aircraft type and airline capability.
So, does this make it clearer...or muddier???