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Northwest Airlines In Australia.  
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8045 times:

Why isn't NW flying to SYD anymore?


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Photo © Raymond Rowe



Might be jumping to NW for flights to the Far East and I was cruising around their site and didn't see flights down under. What gives? Their hub at NRT should be able to handle at least one daily.

Comments?

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8008 times:

You might want to run a search - this topic has been discussed extensively in previous threads.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7998 times:

I just did a search and found nothing.

I'd like to know too.

why?


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7948 times:

Why Don't CO, DL, Or NW Fly To Australia? (by ACB777 Aug 28 2004 in Civil Aviation)


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlinePremoBrimo From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7937 times:

I'm pretty sure it's government related. Someone else can go into detail about it.


Now You're Flying Smart.
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7923 times:

I saw that post and another one in May 2005, but I didn't read any specifics from NW. The whole hub theory wouldn't make sense cause NW is huge at NRT. Thought it could/would be profitable for them.

Is it the Aussie government?


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7896 times:

In a nutshell, NW was limited in the amount of Japan-originating customers it could carry. When combined with the then-overcapacity present in USA-Australia flying, and NW's mounting financial troubles, Australia flying was doomed.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineHKGKaiTak From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7874 times:

1st post on a.net . . .

Aside from the protectionist policies of the Aussie government (see the SQ decision), I honestly doubt anyone can run a profit via NRT. It is already a long flight to the US, and I doubt any pax would want to fly to Japan then onto the US, unless it is very cheap, of course!

(AA has been promoting a reasonably low fare with QF to TYO and then on to LAX or any of the West Coast cities, not sure how well this fare is doing but is a couple hundred dollars cheaper than the direct QF alternative)

Now, if they fly into the East Coast city direct, that would be a different story!



4 Engines 4 LongHaul
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7796 times:

NW never connected SYD with NRT! The routings they flew were LAX to SYD and JFK to SYD via Osaka!


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7735 times:

Quoting Aa777jr (Thread starter):
Why isn't NW flying to SYD anymore?

Because NW was limited to only carrying 50% O&D on NRT-Australia sectors and that wouldn't work. Besides, who would want to connect through NRT to Australia when you could just go via LAX or SFO and save yourself hours?

Excellent, thorough article available here:

http://airtransportbiz.free.fr/Networks/NWAustralia.html


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7405 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7731 times:
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Quoting Aa777jr (Thread starter):
View Large View Medium

Photo © Raymond Rowe

We ended service in 96. The picture was taken because we operated a US Olympic Team Charter to the Sydney 2000 Olympics.



Made from jets!
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7649 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Any American airline has full rights to fly to Australia. All the international airlines except UA codeshare on different airlines (AA on QF etc) because they all feel that its cheaper to codeshare to to fly their own metel to Australia. I know CO also flys to PER with a B738 but I'm not sure if its owned by CO or by a CO owned airline

User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7633 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 11):
I know CO also flys to PER with a B738 but I'm not sure if its owned by CO or by a CO owned airline

Continental Micronesia, which is wholly-owned by Continental Airlines, Inc., flies from Guam to Cairns.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7600 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Thanks for confirming and correcting Avek00 Smile

User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3553 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7577 times:

Hawaiian flies from HNL to SYD.


PHX based
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7476 times:

It wasnt NRT that NW was flying from, it was Osaka. The Prime Minister and one of his good buddies happened to work for United, who was all upset because they didnt think of it first.

Secondly,
that pic that is posted for year 2000 is the US olympic charter for the 2000 Olympic Games in Sydney.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineCragley From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7399 times:

One small note.

Business class fares for sale in Australia for departures on NW from TYO or OSA to the west coast start at AUD $2999.

Not bad eh?

NW also have the lowest fare (other than CI) from OZ to USA via TYO with QF.


User currently offlineCyclonic From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 231 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6504 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 11):
I know CO also flys to PER with a B738 but I'm not sure if its owned by CO or by a CO owned airline

Have you checked the PER website lately? (http://www.perthairport.com.au) I think you'll find that CO doesn't fly here. Please correct me if i'm mistaken but check the website first....



Keith Richards: The man that Death forgot...
User currently offlineMEA From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6294 times:

NW had a whole heap of flights into Australia:

Sydney/Los Angeles
Sydney/Honolulu/Los Angeles
Sydney/Osaka/New York re-routed to Sydney/Osaka/Detroit

All these flights were substantially reduced then eventually terminated.

NW wasn't making any money on the direct LAX route as this was only thrice weekly. Yields to LAX via Honolulu were low and the New York/Detroit flights weren't making any money except for the Sydney/Osaka flights which were eventually restricted to 50% pax originating and terminating in Osaka.

Had NW depolyed their B744s on daily SYD LAX JFK services at the time there may be a whole different story to tell.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5794 times:

NW pulled out of SYD in 1994. Their SYD routes at the time were:
1. 3 weekly LAX-SYD 744.
2. 4 weekly Osaka-SYD 744.

Since they were 5th restricted on the Osaka-SYD route (hence making it unprofitable), they decided to pull out of SYD altogether (rather than just the Osaka route) since only 3 weekly LAX-SYD flights would not have been economical or competitive, and they had better uses for the 744 elsewhere.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineMEA From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5450 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 20):
NW pulled out of SYD in 1994. Their SYD routes at the time were:
1. 3 weekly LAX-SYD 744.
2. 4 weekly Osaka-SYD 744.

You forgot to mention the DC10s on the SYD/HNL/LAX route.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5233 times:

Quoting MEA (Reply 21):
You forgot to mention the DC10s on the SYD/HNL/LAX route.

That route was cancelled separately some time before the last 7 weekly 744 flights in 1994.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineQantasHeavy From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 379 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4124 times:

I think SkyTeam should try to get into the Oz market at SYD and MEL... besides just the KE to SYD and CO Mic to CNS.

40% of QF's profit comes from SYD/MEL - LAX. Lots of cargo and lots of premium seats sold. Use of DL/CO/NW's LAX connections would be great. I fly the route often and the planes are packed.

I though NW had some 744s in the desert? If not, one might argue that they could make more profit running the 744s to SYD than where they use them today.


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7405 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3970 times:
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Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 23):
I though NW had some 744s in the desert? If not, one might argue that they could make more profit running the 744s to SYD than where they use them today

We did. And they went straight to the desert after they were built. They were part of the 1993 master plan to reorganise the company to avoid bankruptcy. Their ship numbers would've been 6311 and 6312 respectively. They were sold to United Airlines in 1994.

[Edited 2005-06-26 02:30:12]


Made from jets!
User currently offlineN77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3746 times:

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 23):
think SkyTeam should try to get into the Oz market at SYD and MEL... besides just the KE to SYD and CO Mic to CNS.

Assuming MH gets into Skyteam; would they have a better chance of flying USA-Australia than SQ did?


25 PhilSquares : Not quite true. Those 744s were never delivered to NWA. UAL took possession of them before they were delivered. They were delivered directly to UAL a
26 Jetjack74 : Not according Aviation Week and Space Technology, dated 2/26/94. It says that "NW will sell 2 new-build Boeing 747-451's that are presently in storag
27 PhilSquares : Jetjack74, at the time I was working for NWA in a management position in Flight Ops. Inspite of what your reference says, NWA never took delivery of t
28 Jetjack74 : And your point is..........? I know lots of people in management who are clueless. This an official press release by NW in AWST. I'm more inclined to
29 PhilSquares : First of all, I don't consider myself clueless. I could see the handwriting on the wall as far as NWA was concerned. Secondly, I was involved in the
30 Jetjack74 : First of all, I didn't call you clueless, but that the realm of possiblity exists. I was indicating I know several people who are management here at
31 Post contains links PhilSquares : I have two references for you. But, I guess I didn't know you had the ability to limit discussion. However, here is the first one. Orders for May 198
32 Post contains links and images Jetjack74 : This really doesn't prove anything. These are for active aircraft that NW actually took ownership of, not subsequent orders or cancelled orders. In fa
33 GARUDAROD : Wasnt there some discussion within the last year about NW reaquiring the two aircraft in question back from UA, as they were built to NW standards and
34 Jetjack74 : No, they were configured to UA's layout. There is basically nothting that sets them apart from UA's -422's. N106UA s currently in storage while N105UA
35 PhilSquares : Funny you contradict yourself in posts. If NWA took delivery of the aircraft, they would have been configured in the NWA configuration, not UAL. So, m
36 Beno : Actually ANY US or Australian airline can fly USA-AUS even including Air NZ.
37 N1120A : No it doesn't. If you want another example, take a look at the VS 744s that were ntu by AZ but have AZ's code
38 Jetjack74 : I'm purely sepculating, N1120A. I don't know, i'm not claiming to know, when customer ID numbers are permanantly assigned. Most likely the VS 744 were
39 Jetjack74 : "They" as in "United" configured the aircraft to "their" configuration.
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