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NW Seeks More Service To Europe  
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7437 posts, RR: 50
Posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9156 times:
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NW seeks more European service.Northwest Airlines Inc. wants the U.S. Department of Transportation to approve an alliance among the Eagan, Minn.-based carrier, Air France and three other European airlines for international flights.

If approved, Northwest could coordinate schedules and fares with Alitalia, Czech Airlines and Air France, owner of KLM Royal Dutch Airlines. Using those airlines' hubs, Northwest says it would be easier for travelers to reach European destinations from its three domestic hubs, of which Detroit is the largest.

"Instead of having one pathway and one option you've got three or four or how ever many it produces," said Megan Rosia, Northwest's managing director of government affairs and associate general counsel.

Detroit, Rosia said, would see more direct flights to Paris, adding to its once-daily flight there. Northwest could also start nonstop flights to Milan and Rome. It currently serves Rome with seasonal service. Additionally, the alliance would lower fares to Europe because it would add flights to European destinations, Northwest said. Click on the article to see more.



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70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCapt.Fantastic From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 751 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9075 times:

My projection is that NW will start year-round service to Rome and Milan: I am still waiting to see DTW to Zurich, Brussels, and Madrid.

I believe Northwest used to fly DTW-MXP - what happened?


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9022 times:

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 1):
believe Northwest used to fly DTW-MXP - what happened?

It was terminated shortly after 9/11


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7437 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9020 times:
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We cancelled it due to low yields. It was grossly inefficient operating out of there. It only lasted 4 or 6 months.


Made from jets!
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8999 times:

Might be flying NW in Asia and I was looking into switching my FF program to World Perks. NW doesn't really go very many places in Europe. AMS, FRA, CDG, and LGW. Is FCO their only seasonal destination?

Regards.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11969 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8974 times:

IMO, NW's #1 priority if this should go through (or even not), as long as they are in SkyTeam, is a daily MSP-CDG flight to augment and take pressure off the single DTW-CDG flight.

User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3768 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8954 times:

I wish NWA would open up another UK destination!

When does FCO stop and start?

Rob!


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7437 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8942 times:
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Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 4):
Is FCO their only seasonal destination?

Yes. Hopefully it will be daily, year-round, along with a few other destinations.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineTheGov From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 420 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8945 times:

The local Memphis paper addressed this very issue this week stating that MEM could see a N/S to CDG within the next 5 years and to Asia within the next 7 years as a result of the SkyTeam alliance. The paper did not address which carrier would fly the route, either NW or AF.


Always a pallbearer, never a corpse.
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7437 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8905 times:
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With the 787, I could definately see us serving NRT from MEM. Seting a timetable could be a bit premature.


Made from jets!
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8884 times:

NW opened up the DTW-FCO and DTW-MXP routes when KL and AZ were about to merge and NW entered into a codeshare agreement with AZ in connection with that aborted deal. The KL-AZ deal busted up and the result was that NW quickly cancelled the Rome and Milan flights due to lack of demand and resulting low yeilds. It is ironic that KL ended up with AF, which was already cooperating with AZ and that the whole group ended up in SkyTeam together.

NW had also planned a DTW-Madrid flight at one time, to be operated by a daily DC10 service - it was even in the schedule for a time - however, the flight never got off the ground.

NW has had little incentive to open up new transatlantic services due to their very strong relationship with KL - it is far less risky to simply route passengers via the AMS hub to destinations in Europe. This is a strong alliance with a very high level of cooperation - KL/NW offer 5 flights per day on the DTW-AMS route which is evidence of how closely the airlines work together in moving pax from the US to Europe and beyond.

I would expect that a MSP-CDG route will be opened, connecting the large NW hub as MSP with the AF base at CDG. I am not sure if NW will expand services to Italy for several reasons - loads to Italy are more seasonal that other European destinations, yeilds are not great, and very few extra connection possibilities are added by FCO/MXP flights since AMS and CDG have most European, African, Middle Eastern destinations covered, thus, why bother? The seasonal Rome service will likely remain seasonal and Milan is just a remote possibility. Detroit-Manchester has been talked about for years - the problem is that the A330 (and DC10) is probably too big for the route (except for the high demand summer months), Detroit-Madrid may also make a comeback, but I do not think that it is a priority. I do not think that Memphis can support additional flights to Europe - Memphis to AMS works, but I do not see enough demand to add a Paris flight as well.

Due to the KL partnership, and the fact that NW's US hubs are not ideal from a georaphical point of view as European gateways (they are simply too far west), I think that NW expansion of direct services to Europe will be very conversative.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6531 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8737 times:

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 4):
Might be flying NW in Asia and I was looking into switching my FF program to World Perks

Maybe you could get the rest of the attorneys in your firm to switch as well!
That would be a real plus for NWA, gaining all that additional business


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8701 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 11):
Maybe you could get the rest of the attorneys in your firm to switch as well!
That would be a real plus for NWA, gaining all that additional business

Way to funny, thanks for the laugh!



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineJamman From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8707 times:

Agh you don't want to on mainland Europe, u got KLM/AF for that.
NWA pick MAN! Pick MAN, go on you know ya want to! did I ever tell u how cute u look? *tickles NWA under the chin*

/madness



Phoning it in from a place with no phones.
User currently offlineFlyboy_se From Sweden, joined Feb 2000, 833 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8718 times:

I hope they start service to ARN.would be great to see their DC-10 here.I know a lot of Swedes fly on Icelandair to MSP, so i think a direct route would be good. Aslo from ARN passengers can continue on CSA,AF,KL,AZ and SU
Anyway it is just my wishfull thinking , but i ve been a good boy so santa may surprise me  Wink



I prefer to be crazy and happy rather than normal and bitter
User currently onlineJano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 827 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8699 times:

Very good! Maybe mu dream route of DTW-PRG becomes a reality within next 3-4 years Big grin


The Widget Air Line :)
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26137 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8655 times:

NWA's overall European services lacks depth with the extreme concentration on AMS due to the KLM relationship.

Gaining immunity with Skyteam partners certainly should help NWA add and spread some of its European flying to other partner hubs particularly Paris which will boost the overall network strength of its European flights.

One of NWA's largest issues on its European network is its somewhat lack of appeal particularly for the business traveler which translates to lower revenue/yields.
A large percentage of NWA European passengers must double connect (ie xxx-DTW-AMS-xxx) which is not attractive to the business traveler. (Large percentages of NWA passengers come from points cities behind its hubs)
In addition AMS has traditionaly been one of the lower yielding European cities. NWA as a result has had to mostly use the back of the bus and need for high load factors to economically fly Europe.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8651 times:

There's been (wild) speculation on this board in the past about a possible PDX-AMS flight...is this still a possibility or a pipe dream?

User currently offlineDoug_or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3441 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8611 times:

I'd think it would make marginaly more sense then the current LH service (AMS is more convient to most of Europe and you would have the QX feed), but I'd have a hard time imagining the two services co-existing. Access to NRT and AMS alongwith the AS/QX agreements would make a strong case for PDX FF to try and achieve status with NW, though.

[this is all of course wild speculation from my unimformed self]

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 17):
There's been (wild) speculation on this board in the past about a possible PDX-AMS flight...is this still a possibility or a pipe dream?



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33278 posts, RR: 71
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8577 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 1):
believe Northwest used to fly DTW-MXP - what happened?

It was terminated shortly after 9/11

The flight was terminated well before 9.11. It ended after a very short run (about six months) in the fall of 2000.



a.
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7437 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8499 times:
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Here's the press release


Made from jets!
User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8507 times:

Actually, as a DTW NW flyer, I see that the possibilty of opening up another connection point as very viable. Although AMS is probably the nicest transfer airport in Europe, KLM lacks frequency which Air France can help with. For instance, KLM flies once daily to Moscow whereas Air France has 7 direct flights daily with aeroflot, or 4 daily themselves. On the return segment a over night stop is required with KLM but not so with Air France. Another example is a flight I took from DTW to MUC. I flew through the AMS hub, but my connection was over five hours. I think that Air France will help pick a lot that KLM simply can't. KLM has good coverage, but now that Air France and KLM are merged, a lot of overlap within Europe has been discontinued, hurting Northwest and North American passengers.

I would like to see a daily flight from DTW to Milan, Prague, Moscow, and more frequencies to Paris. BCN or Madrid would be nice too. I don't think that Detroit is that poorly situated. Since flights still have to fly on the great cirlce flights, (Arc shaped flight paths that are shorter on long distance flights because of the curvature of the earth.) Detroit isn't that out of the way. A flight from Philadelphia or New York to Europe may be only 1/2 hour longer from Detroit. Plus, there is still the large portion of people that live in the middle of the country that have needs to get to Europe too. Not everything is centered along the east coast.

Additionally, the fact that the new North Terminal in Detroit will have it's own customs and immigrations proves that Northwest will have more int. gate openings when BA, LF and RJ move to the north terminal. And with the purchase of the 787's, NW will have more Airbuses that will need to fly to new destinations, or otherwise will go unused. Detroit also offers the best facilities on the eastern half of the US.



LH 442
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7437 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8445 times:
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DTW-MAD was planned twice until the sagging economy in 2002 and Iraq war/SARS scare in 2003 scrapped plans for that. The 2nd time around, there wasn't even a press release about it. It just never started.


Made from jets!
User currently offlineCapt.Fantastic From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 751 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8436 times:

MAN would appear to be a good possibility: It is a bit impractical to fly to the UK via AMS or CDG. In off season, they could use smaller equipment, i.e. 757-200. Has NW considered using 757s across the Atlantic to smaller destinations like Manchester or Glasgow?

User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7437 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8388 times:
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There was talk about it, but the 753's are concentrated on the high-density routes from DTW/MSP domestically and from the west coast cities to HNL. There are only 16 in the fleet, and stretched to the max with usage. The 752's are not ETOPS certified. There is questionable range capabilities with these aircraft. We would probably have to lease some that are already certified for longer-range use. But that's just my opinion.


Made from jets!
25 Post contains images COSPN : MAN would appear to be a good possibility: It is a bit impractical to fly to the UK via AMS or CDG. In off season, they could use smaller equipment, i
26 Avek00 : I HIGHLY doubt it, unless it was an all-cargo flight - the pax traffic simply isn't there. I think you mean that it lacks *breadth* - until the past
27 Jetjack74 : You think so, The fact that WalMart is exploding in China, and many Asian companies are investing in the south/southeast, i'd say that we would have
28 N77014 : All NW is doing here is entering into another hub to funnel pax in ways that AMS can't; namely West Africa, Mideast, and Eastern European connections.
29 Jetjack74 : It may not have the same draw that the New York area has, but DTW does have a strong market in the Mid East. Look at the position of the 2 hubs. They
30 Indy : DTW has one big thing going for it in my opinion.. It isn't ORD. You can get in and out of DTW pretty darn easy. It is probably one of the easiest con
31 Stirling : Passengers over the Atlantic. Last years data. 2004 traffic JAN-DEC, from ATW On-line. Change over 2003 figures. Northwest surely has the most to grow
32 Jetjack74 : Well, our CEO predicted that we wouldn't grow much past 1% over last year, so our low growth has been deliberate. Capacity is to remain flat from last
33 Avek00 : I'd say that MIA and even *gasp* MSY are far more likely to receive pax nonstops to Asia than MEM.
34 Jetjack74 : Okay, well when you're CEO of Northwest Airlines, i'll take your prediction for more than the grain of salt that it is.
35 Iowaman : MSP-CDG will happen before MEM most likely. I hate to say it but compared to DTW or MSP, MEM just sucks for connecting flights. I don't think O&D wou
36 Indy : I've never been to MSP. How does connecting in MSP compare to MEM? Also is the MSP O/D much better than MEM? I have no idea. I don't know how either o
37 Avek00 : Both MIA and MSY offer far more pax/cargo O&D to Japan than MEM could reasonably generate.
38 Goodmanr : MSP is good to connect in, it's big but not overcrowded and quite nice and easy. Minneapolis/St. Paul is a much larger metro area than Memphis. With
39 Capt.Fantastic : When flying IND-LAS, I connected through Memphis on NWA - It wasn't too pleasant: I was very disappointed. Very long walk from my commuter flight to m
40 Leneld : Whatever happen To Northwest starting flights to Amsterdam from PDX?
41 Post contains images GLAGAZ : GLA was strongly rumoured last year from DTW or BOS but obviously nothing came of it. Would be good to see NWA back at GLA. According to others the DC
42 BHXFAOTIPYYC : This is a pretty good idea. NW need to do their homework, but copying EK's idea of using more regional airports (EK operates LGW, LHR, BHX, MAN and G
43 MauriceB : I am still waiting to see DTW to Zurich, Brussels, and Madrid. will not happen because its easier to fly to a place were you have an partner based, it
44 Jetjack74 : That used to be the conventional wisdom, but US, CO, AA and UA are testiment that you can still by pass European hubs in favor of direct service. It
45 Iowaman : I can't answer that, but maybe when more A330's come it could happen. MEM is sort of a southern gateway for NW, so that won't happen. MSP is sort of
46 Burnsie28 : Apparently you dont know how much revenue the Memphis hub actually brings in, also, there is plenty of feed from the South to make NRT work, they mak
47 SESGDL : ATL is one of the largest O&D cities in the US, a huge business capital, 3rd largest in the US, and is the largest hub operation on the planet. Not t
48 Avek00 : The MEM hub is downright puny compared to DL's ATL operation. If Boeing's 737 replacement has the range for MEM-NRT, then dicussion of the route migh
49 Jetjack74 : No argument there
50 SESGDL : I didn't know DL was that close to AA over the Atlantic. Anyone know if DL has overtaken AA yet as the largest carrier over the Atlantic? Jeremy
51 BOSPMV : they forgot to mention the fact that AZ also flies a daily n/s BOS-FCO. why would MEM even need any n/s to Asia, aside from FEDEX, I don't see a need.
52 Hjulicher : I would like to know whether this is your own speculation. To begin, if MSP has 2 million O/D traffic, Detroit has 7 million. Additionally DTW is hea
53 MAH4546 : The Northwest PR? That was from 2000. Alitalia's seasonal BOS-FCO service (6x weekly) started in 2004. It was originally going to be operated by Delt
54 Post contains links SESGDL : WRONG. MSP's metro population is about 3.1 million, while Detroit's is about 4.5 million. Hardly the 7 million you speak of. If you'd like proof chec
55 MAH4546 : Detroit loses a lot of traffic to Toledo (from the southern Detroit suburbs) and Flint (from the northern Detroit suburbs). MSP is not only is the on
56 Hjulicher : Are you a Detroit basher? You quoted Detroit's metro population at 4.5, but as metro detroiter I know that it's around 5.5 million, I added the addit
57 Hjulicher : Regardless, Detroit will be where NW will probably begin its new flights. I would agree that NW should start service to some scandinavian country from
58 SESGDL : Those Swedes have no little to no connection with Scandinavia other than the fact that they're Swedish. There's really no demand. No, I'm not bashing
59 NorthstarBoy : just a couple of curiosities: why does NW not fly the A330 into MSP At ALL? presently, NW has four europe frequencies a day from MSP, and they're all
60 Bobnwa : I would say that DTW-NRT and JFK-NRT rate above LAX-NRT as "flagship" service.
61 Jano : Well, but LAX-NRT are NW flights 1 and 2. I guess that gotta count for something. Regarding what NorthstarBoy wrote about A333 and MSP. I think it onl
62 Jetjack74 : We did. We had MSP-OSL in 99, It lasted like 3 months before we cancelled it. Loads were dismal the longer the flight continued until were cancelling
63 Cgnnrw : I flew NWs service AMS-PHL twice back in 99/00 and was quite impressed. Although the DC10s were showing their age, the crews were friendly, food was g
64 Joost : Well, this basically is what CO is doing from EWR. But there is a big difference: CO is serving the New York Metro area, an enourmous O&D market, and
65 Jetjack74 : We ended the PHL-AMS in 10/00. Too bad because it was a great trip. NYC-base had initially, and then DTW got it through a 6-day pattern. We lost an e
66 Tsnamm : I'm sure you've heard the old NW insider joke... "we have hubs in Motown, snowtown...and notown!" I'm sure you know which one is notown...
67 Jetjack74 : No other airline begins with No
68 Post contains images Indy : This is starting to sound like a credit card commercial
69 Basas : Heck, YWG is an 8 hour drive from MSP and tons of people drive down to fly (doing it next week as a matter of fact). Many, many others use the 6 dail
70 Tundra767 : Would be interesting to see if anything will ever come out of IND. I am suprised ATA never ried to do something with it before NWA. I would think an A
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