Aa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9161 times:
Might be flying NW in Asia and I was looking into switching my FF program to World Perks. NW doesn't really go very many places in Europe. AMS, FRA, CDG, and LGW. Is FCO their only seasonal destination?
TheGov From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 420 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9107 times:
The local Memphis paper addressed this very issue this week stating that MEM could see a N/S to CDG within the next 5 years and to Asia within the next 7 years as a result of the SkyTeam alliance. The paper did not address which carrier would fly the route, either NW or AF.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9046 times:
NW opened up the DTW-FCO and DTW-MXP routes when KL and AZ were about to merge and NW entered into a codeshare agreement with AZ in connection with that aborted deal. The KL-AZ deal busted up and the result was that NW quickly cancelled the Rome and Milan flights due to lack of demand and resulting low yeilds. It is ironic that KL ended up with AF, which was already cooperating with AZ and that the whole group ended up in SkyTeam together.
NW had also planned a DTW-Madrid flight at one time, to be operated by a daily DC10 service - it was even in the schedule for a time - however, the flight never got off the ground.
NW has had little incentive to open up new transatlantic services due to their very strong relationship with KL - it is far less risky to simply route passengers via the AMS hub to destinations in Europe. This is a strong alliance with a very high level of cooperation - KL/NW offer 5 flights per day on the DTW-AMS route which is evidence of how closely the airlines work together in moving pax from the US to Europe and beyond.
I would expect that a MSP-CDG route will be opened, connecting the large NW hub as MSP with the AF base at CDG. I am not sure if NW will expand services to Italy for several reasons - loads to Italy are more seasonal that other European destinations, yeilds are not great, and very few extra connection possibilities are added by FCO/MXP flights since AMS and CDG have most European, African, Middle Eastern destinations covered, thus, why bother? The seasonal Rome service will likely remain seasonal and Milan is just a remote possibility. Detroit-Manchester has been talked about for years - the problem is that the A330 (and DC10) is probably too big for the route (except for the high demand summer months), Detroit-Madrid may also make a comeback, but I do not think that it is a priority. I do not think that Memphis can support additional flights to Europe - Memphis to AMS works, but I do not see enough demand to add a Paris flight as well.
Due to the KL partnership, and the fact that NW's US hubs are not ideal from a georaphical point of view as European gateways (they are simply too far west), I think that NW expansion of direct services to Europe will be very conversative.
Flyboy_se From Sweden, joined Feb 2000, 856 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8880 times:
I hope they start service to ARN.would be great to see their DC-10 here.I know a lot of Swedes fly on Icelandair to MSP, so i think a direct route would be good. Aslo from ARN passengers can continue on CSA,AF,KL,AZ and SU
Anyway it is just my wishfull thinking , but i ve been a good boy so santa may surprise me
I prefer to be crazy and happy rather than normal and bitter
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26697 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8817 times:
NWA's overall European services lacks depth with the extreme concentration on AMS due to the KLM relationship.
Gaining immunity with Skyteam partners certainly should help NWA add and spread some of its European flying to other partner hubs particularly Paris which will boost the overall network strength of its European flights.
One of NWA's largest issues on its European network is its somewhat lack of appeal particularly for the business traveler which translates to lower revenue/yields.
A large percentage of NWA European passengers must double connect (ie xxx-DTW-AMS-xxx) which is not attractive to the business traveler. (Large percentages of NWA passengers come from points cities behind its hubs)
In addition AMS has traditionaly been one of the lower yielding European cities. NWA as a result has had to mostly use the back of the bus and need for high load factors to economically fly Europe.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Doug_or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3470 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8773 times:
I'd think it would make marginaly more sense then the current LH service (AMS is more convient to most of Europe and you would have the QX feed), but I'd have a hard time imagining the two services co-existing. Access to NRT and AMS alongwith the AS/QX agreements would make a strong case for PDX FF to try and achieve status with NW, though.
[this is all of course wild speculation from my unimformed self]
Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 17): There's been (wild) speculation on this board in the past about a possible PDX-AMS flight...is this still a possibility or a pipe dream?
Hjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 913 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8669 times:
Actually, as a DTW NW flyer, I see that the possibilty of opening up another connection point as very viable. Although AMS is probably the nicest transfer airport in Europe, KLM lacks frequency which Air France can help with. For instance, KLM flies once daily to Moscow whereas Air France has 7 direct flights daily with aeroflot, or 4 daily themselves. On the return segment a over night stop is required with KLM but not so with Air France. Another example is a flight I took from DTW to MUC. I flew through the AMS hub, but my connection was over five hours. I think that Air France will help pick a lot that KLM simply can't. KLM has good coverage, but now that Air France and KLM are merged, a lot of overlap within Europe has been discontinued, hurting Northwest and North American passengers.
I would like to see a daily flight from DTW to Milan, Prague, Moscow, and more frequencies to Paris. BCN or Madrid would be nice too. I don't think that Detroit is that poorly situated. Since flights still have to fly on the great cirlce flights, (Arc shaped flight paths that are shorter on long distance flights because of the curvature of the earth.) Detroit isn't that out of the way. A flight from Philadelphia or New York to Europe may be only 1/2 hour longer from Detroit. Plus, there is still the large portion of people that live in the middle of the country that have needs to get to Europe too. Not everything is centered along the east coast.
Additionally, the fact that the new North Terminal in Detroit will have it's own customs and immigrations proves that Northwest will have more int. gate openings when BA, LF and RJ move to the north terminal. And with the purchase of the 787's, NW will have more Airbuses that will need to fly to new destinations, or otherwise will go unused. Detroit also offers the best facilities on the eastern half of the US.
Jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7443 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8607 times:
DTW-MAD was planned twice until the sagging economy in 2002 and Iraq war/SARS scare in 2003 scrapped plans for that. The 2nd time around, there wasn't even a press release about it. It just never started.
Capt.Fantastic From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 768 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8598 times:
MAN would appear to be a good possibility: It is a bit impractical to fly to the UK via AMS or CDG. In off season, they could use smaller equipment, i.e. 757-200. Has NW considered using 757s across the Atlantic to smaller destinations like Manchester or Glasgow?
Jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7443 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8550 times:
There was talk about it, but the 753's are concentrated on the high-density routes from DTW/MSP domestically and from the west coast cities to HNL. There are only 16 in the fleet, and stretched to the max with usage. The 752's are not ETOPS certified. There is questionable range capabilities with these aircraft. We would probably have to lease some that are already certified for longer-range use. But that's just my opinion.
Made from jets!
: MAN would appear to be a good possibility: It is a bit impractical to fly to the UK via AMS or CDG. In off season, they could use smaller equipment, i
: I HIGHLY doubt it, unless it was an all-cargo flight - the pax traffic simply isn't there. I think you mean that it lacks *breadth* - until the past
: You think so, The fact that WalMart is exploding in China, and many Asian companies are investing in the south/southeast, i'd say that we would have
: All NW is doing here is entering into another hub to funnel pax in ways that AMS can't; namely West Africa, Mideast, and Eastern European connections.
: It may not have the same draw that the New York area has, but DTW does have a strong market in the Mid East. Look at the position of the 2 hubs. They
: DTW has one big thing going for it in my opinion.. It isn't ORD. You can get in and out of DTW pretty darn easy. It is probably one of the easiest con
: Passengers over the Atlantic. Last years data. 2004 traffic JAN-DEC, from ATW On-line. Change over 2003 figures. Northwest surely has the most to grow
: Well, our CEO predicted that we wouldn't grow much past 1% over last year, so our low growth has been deliberate. Capacity is to remain flat from last
: I'd say that MIA and even *gasp* MSY are far more likely to receive pax nonstops to Asia than MEM.
: Okay, well when you're CEO of Northwest Airlines, i'll take your prediction for more than the grain of salt that it is.
: MSP-CDG will happen before MEM most likely. I hate to say it but compared to DTW or MSP, MEM just sucks for connecting flights. I don't think O&D wou
: I've never been to MSP. How does connecting in MSP compare to MEM? Also is the MSP O/D much better than MEM? I have no idea. I don't know how either o
: Both MIA and MSY offer far more pax/cargo O&D to Japan than MEM could reasonably generate.
: MSP is good to connect in, it's big but not overcrowded and quite nice and easy. Minneapolis/St. Paul is a much larger metro area than Memphis. With
: When flying IND-LAS, I connected through Memphis on NWA - It wasn't too pleasant: I was very disappointed. Very long walk from my commuter flight to m
: Whatever happen To Northwest starting flights to Amsterdam from PDX?
: GLA was strongly rumoured last year from DTW or BOS but obviously nothing came of it. Would be good to see NWA back at GLA. According to others the DC
: This is a pretty good idea. NW need to do their homework, but copying EK's idea of using more regional airports (EK operates LGW, LHR, BHX, MAN and G
: I am still waiting to see DTW to Zurich, Brussels, and Madrid. will not happen because its easier to fly to a place were you have an partner based, it
: That used to be the conventional wisdom, but US, CO, AA and UA are testiment that you can still by pass European hubs in favor of direct service. It
: I can't answer that, but maybe when more A330's come it could happen. MEM is sort of a southern gateway for NW, so that won't happen. MSP is sort of
: Apparently you dont know how much revenue the Memphis hub actually brings in, also, there is plenty of feed from the South to make NRT work, they mak
: ATL is one of the largest O&D cities in the US, a huge business capital, 3rd largest in the US, and is the largest hub operation on the planet. Not t
: The MEM hub is downright puny compared to DL's ATL operation. If Boeing's 737 replacement has the range for MEM-NRT, then dicussion of the route migh