Swadispatcher From United States of America, joined May 2004, 427 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 1 hour ago) and read 2199 times:
I forgot that those seats went on sale today.. if it does half as well as PHX has been doing, well both (TZ & WN) be in good shape.
I heard that they were going to measure and stripe C-7 for the 757's.. I wonder where their ticket counter will end up.. there's not that much counter space in that terminal.
Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
FRA2DTW From Germany, joined Feb 2004, 322 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2112 times:
I think this is intended to fill the seats that will be lost when the PHH contract ends. I also think this may well be the prelude to codesharing across the Atlantic on ATA metal out of Baltimore.
Swadispatcher From United States of America, joined May 2004, 427 posts, RR: 10 Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2105 times:
Quoting FRA2DTW (Reply 3): I also think this may well be the prelude to codesharing across the Atlantic on ATA metal out of Baltimore.
I wouldn't be surprised at this! It's only a matter of time and logistics, I think.
Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22028 posts, RR: 51 Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2076 times:
Quoting FRA2DTW (Reply 3): I think this is intended to fill the seats that will be lost when the PHH contract ends
Absolutely nothing to do with the PHH contract terminating.
The PHH flying is from LAX/SFO-Hawaii. The initial SWA code share covered the PHX-Hawaii route and now these added flights add LAS-Hawaii service.
As far as the PHH routes ATA will need to make a decision soon if they can support the flying on their own from Los Angeles and San Francisco come January upon the termination of the PHH contract. I suspect no, as the market is quite saturated as is and ATA honestly on its own does not have much of a name in either city. SWA could not provide any feed at SFO as it does not fly to SFO, and provide very little feed at LA the way the flights are currently scheduled. (AM departure, evening return)
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Swadispatcher From United States of America, joined May 2004, 427 posts, RR: 10 Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2033 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5): SWA could not provide any feed at SFO as it does not fly to SFO, and provide very little feed at LA the way the flights are currently scheduled. (AM departure, evening return)
But I could see feed to an OAK-HNL/OGG as well as an LAX-HNL/OGG (if we can get a gate or two in LA).
Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10189 posts, RR: 62 Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2019 times:
This entire codesharing system is absolutely brilliant on WN's part, if you ask me -- they can pretty much take all of ATA's traffic on premium routes to premium markets, like EWR, LGA, DCA, etc., and on routes that they currently can't or won't fly -- like Hawaii, Mexico, Caribbean, and yet WN never has to assume any of the operational obligation or financial responsibility for the flights. If ATA goes barkrupt, WN lost only its small cash infusion into ATA, which it has already made back with the codeshare revenue. Another smart move by WN!
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3374 posts, RR: 18 Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1959 times:
Swadispatcher From United States of America, joined May 2004, 427 posts, RR: 10 Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1951 times:
Quoting PVD757 (Reply 8): Look for the MCO-SJU flight to be added next...
I heard they are having "technology" issues on our end.. that's why we haven't added it yet.. I wouldn't think that it would be long before we started it though..
Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1950 times:
>> they can pretty much take all of ATA's traffic on premium routes to premium markets, like EWR, LGA, DCA, etc., and on routes that they currently can't or won't fly
It isn't quite that simple. Let me explain with a hypothetical itenerary:
5 people in HOU want to fly to BOS, and WN/TZ is the best option for them. They are sold two tickets, one HOU-MDW (WN) and the other MDW-BOS (TZ). WN only has the right to sell a certain number of TZ seats, WN doesn't get the profit or revenue generated by the MDW-BOS ticket. What's the incentive to WN? Those extra 5 passengers riding on the HOU-MDW leg.
As I understand it, WN really doesn't take away TZ's "premium" traffic, they just funnel more into TZ's system and in the process, stiffen up traffic on WN's existing routes.
>> If ATA goes barkrupt, WN lost only its small cash infusion into ATA, which it has already made back with the codeshare revenue.
WN hasn't recieved an extra $125 million dollars in profit from the codesharing in just two quarters.... it wasn't exactly pennies that WN tossed TZ's way...
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3374 posts, RR: 18 Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1925 times:
The gates and MX hangar in MDW were part of the investment. Both of which can now be added to WN's finacial situation in the asset line item...
ATA767 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 419 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1833 times:
I hate to see these airline novices make assumptions they know nothing about, The press release was so clear and posters seem to be making assuptions about markets not even mention (SFO/LAX). Dfwrevolution sums up the situation the best. SWA would only get the LAS-MIDWAY revenue in the example he used. HANLEY-LAS and MIDWAY-BOAS is flown by ATA and as a result they get the revenue, that is hardly premium.
Brons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2969 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1816 times:
Quoting FRA2DTW (Reply 3): I think this is intended to fill the seats that will be lost when the PHH contract ends. I also think this may well be the prelude to codesharing across the Atlantic on ATA metal out of Baltimore.
Words cannot describe how awesome that would be for this WN frequent flier.
On my most recent trip to Europe I flew AUS-BWI on WN then BA BWI-LHR. Would have been nice to check my bags all the way and be on a single itenerary.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10189 posts, RR: 62 Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1788 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 10): As I understand it, WN really doesn't take away TZ's "premium" traffic, they just funnel more into TZ's system and in the process, stiffen up traffic on WN's existing routes.
But is this not all traffic and revenue that WN would not have had before? I think it is pretty obvious that WN is getting traffic and revenue off of ATA by feeding traffic to, and receiving traffic from, TZ's service into relatively premium (compared to typical WN cities) markets like LGA, DCA, Hawaii, Mexico, etc. that WN would never service on its own. The point I was trying to make is that WN is getting this incramental revenue from these TZ passengers being fed into their flights with absolutely no investment in resources, people or facilities by WN -- its all on TZ's balance sheet -- and virtually no risk or financial exposure to the economics of each TZ flight.
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 10): WN hasn't recieved an extra $125 million dollars in profit from the codesharing in just two quarters.... it wasn't exactly pennies that WN tossed TZ's way
Perhaps I was unclear with my original words on the subject. I meant that by the time TZ goes belly up, if it does, WN most likely will have recouped their initial investment.
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3374 posts, RR: 18 Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1685 times:
Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 15): Nice miles, but 7 hours in a narrowbody? Ouch.
ORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1679 times:
Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 15): Quoting Brons2 (Reply 13):
Words cannot describe how awesome that would be for this WN frequent flier.
Typhaerion From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 619 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1632 times:
Quoting PVD757 (Reply 16): Hence ATA's quest for used 767's?
Sadly no...
The last I had heard from those boys over there was the 767s were needed for the Military Charter flying because the L1011s they have are fast approaching the need for D-Check heavy maintenance and TZ cannot afford the investment in those aged aircraft. I hear they are also having trouble finding all of the parts required to D-Check 5 L1011s, let alone the cost of getting them, the parts just aren't out there since they aren't being made anymore.
However nice it may be to keep them around so all us aviation enthusiasts could fly them, when no one makes replacement parts anymore for them the costs to run the aircraft skyrocket. I think that, if the current rumor of acquiring 5 767s is true, we will never see a D-Checked L1011 from TZ and they will be parked as instead. Such beautiful aircraft, it is too bad about the costs.
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
Boeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1580 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 18): CO does that on a multiple daily basis with their 757s, and is successful in doing so. No reason why WN/TZ couldn't do the same with their 757s.
Brons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2969 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1473 times:
Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 15): Nice miles, but 7 hours in a narrowbody? Ouch.
CO and AA fly the 757 across the pond...
Quoting ORDagent (Reply 17):
AFAIK WN miles are not redeamable to HNL. Sad
I don't really care about that, or Europe either. I just want to be able to fly from where I live (AUS) to Europe for example on a single itenerary and without having to recheck my bags, like I had to most recently when flying AUS-BWI-LHR on WN and BA.
And to go back to the first point, WN's legroom is better than BA in World Traveler. Fortunately, I had the exit row on the 777 both ways, but I would not have been happy if I didn't.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
Wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4553 posts, RR: 17 Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1438 times:
Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 19): The last I had heard from those boys over there was the 767s were needed for the Military Charter flying because the L1011s they have are fast approaching the need for D-Check heavy maintenance and TZ cannot afford the investment in those aged aircraft.
Hmmm...last thread here was that Marshall's was going to D-Check two of them in the UK shortly, and that the 767s were off the table for now.
ATAV2pls10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 35 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1426 times:
Quoting ORDagent (Reply 17): AFAIK WN miles are not redeamable to HNL.
Not just yet. But they are working on integrating the FF programs later this year. Don't know any details or timeframes but it is in the works. Then you will see rewards to Hawaii and future destinations. Hopefully a win win situation for WN/TZ and customers alike.
Luvfa From United States of America, joined May 2005, 437 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1362 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 10): 5 people in HOU want to fly to BOS, and WN/TZ is the best option for them. They are sold two tickets, one HOU-MDW (WN) and the other MDW-BOS (TZ). WN only has the right to sell a certain number of TZ seats, WN doesn't get the profit or revenue generated by the MDW-BOS ticket. What's the incentive to WN? Those extra 5 passengers riding on the HOU-MDW leg.
No but WN makes revenue from the 5 people flying on the HOU-MDW leg; who have only chosen to do so for the TZ code-share.
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From Germany, joined Feb 2004, 322 posts, 
It's only a matter of time and logistics, I think.
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