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Ted In MIA  
User currently offlineNwairlnk07 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 26 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2924 times:

Will the introduction of Ted into MIA lower fares out of MIA and start a trend of new low cost carriers into the airport instead of FLL?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6775 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2914 times:

No. MIA is still to expensive.. even with their 1 year for cheap plan.. they may see FL or TED add 1 or 2... but FLL will be the LCC choice.. MIA is too dominant and more of a Caribbean gateway for too much LCC presence..

but that's my opinion.. which I'm sure will be contradicted.  Big grin



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2915 times:

Quoting Nwairlnk07 (Thread starter):
Will the introduction of Ted into MIA lower fares out of MIA and start a trend of new low cost carriers into the airport instead of FLL?

No.

Firstly, fares at MIA have been lowered significantly as of late because of AA's new fare structure, which has also created a very healthy increase in domestic O&D traffic from the airport. I know I'm just one example, but ever since AA's new fare structure was put in place, I have not used FLL at all, having switched exclusivly to AA on frequent trips to O'Hare and LaGuardia.

Although I have been able to find out that United was very relunctant to introduce Ted to MIA, but MIA officals basiclly begged United to death to bring in Ted, in hopes of doing exactly what you suggested - bringing in more low cost carriers.

It is not going to happen though to a major extent. You will see jetBlue at MIA within a year and word is Independence Air will be chosing Miami over Fort Lauderdale for a winter 06 launch. And there has been rumours that Song may come into MIA-JFK (or it may be Delta Connection). Though all of these things are independent of Ted. Future potential LCC growth at MIA is due to the fact that there is no more room at crowded and congested FLL.

MIA also has high landing and operating fees. Though these are not the major obstacle most people make them out to be. The costs are passed on to the passengers, simple as that. MIA is an easier and less congested airport to operate to than FLL is.

[Edited 2005-06-27 18:01:40]


a.
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3755 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2889 times:

You can connect at IAD from LHR to ted to MIA

Sat 5-Nov-2005 Expedia Special Fare

London (LHR)
Depart 12:00
Terminal 3 to Washington DC (IAD)
Arrive 15:00 3665 mi
(5898 km)
Duration: 8hr 0min

Flight: 919

Economy/Coach Class, Lunch, Boeing 747-400


Washington DC (IAD)
Depart 17:45 to Miami (MIA)
Arrive 20:32 923 mi
(1485 km)
Duration: 2hr 47min

Flight: 1433
Operated by: /UNITED FOR TED

Economy/Coach Class, Airbus A319-321


User currently offlineNwairlnk07 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2808 times:

Thanks for the info. I remember the 90s when United had a decent operation out of MIA. I used to fly the MIA-LAX direct route on a 777 and it was great. Will United ever push back into MIA in the future especially now with the removal of mainline service?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2717 times:

Quoting Nwairlnk07 (Reply 4):
Will United ever push back into MIA in the future especially now with the removal of mainline service?

There has been talk that they might, and I have been told MIA officials are prepared to give United a very tempting incentives package to build back up an MIA focus city. Though nothing is going to happen until UA is out of Chapter 11 and healthy again.



a.
User currently offlineZippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5488 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2704 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
There has been talk that they might, and I have been told MIA officials are prepared to give United a very tempting incentives package to build back up an MIA focus city. Though nothing is going to happen until UA is out of Chapter 11 and healthy again.

And, don't forget concourse J will be the state of the art home to the Star Alliance carriers which UA is part of.

We fly out of gate G2 at MIA and, I hope we will again add flights into MIA. We used to have a nonstop daily and a through flight on us FL from BWI-MIA and our through flight was BWI-TPA-MIA. In 2003 when we had the wet lease with Air Wisconsin Barbie Jets we had a healthy little TPA-MIA selection of flights. We could easily fill one of our 737-700's on MIA runs. And so far we are the only of the Big 3 LCC's to have any MIA presence. WN won't touch MIA and Jet Blue has yet to pull up to the gate. This is our chance before Jet Blue and especially those ugly Indy Air birds.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 6):
And, don't forget concourse J will be the state of the art home to the Star Alliance carriers which UA is part of.

There has been talk lately that SkyTeam and Delta's partners will takeover Concourse J and Star Alliance will go to H unless we see a significant increase in Star service to MIA.

SkyTeam and Delta's partners have a significant pressence at MIA, with over 60 daily flights to about 25 cities.



a.
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4520 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
SkyTeam and Delta's partners have a significant pressence at MIA, with over 60 daily flights to about 25 cities.

Versus a pitiful 19 Star Alliance flights.


User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2576 times:

As stated above... SKY TEAM makes sense in the new terminal... unfortunately Star Alliance is not cutting it right now w/ Miami service. SkyTeam has all the Delta/Delta Connections flights, Alitalia, Air France, AeroMexico, Continental, Northwest and CO partner COPA. All with daily flights to a nice amount of cities.


Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineBOSPMV From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2556 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
There has been talk that they might, and I have been told MIA officials are prepared to give United a very tempting incentives package to build back up an MIA focus city. Though nothing is going to happen until UA is out of Chapter 11 and healthy again.

what type of operation could you see them running out of MIA?
wouldn't that piss AA off and also, knowing AA has a stonrghold on MIA, would UA be willing to attempt a large increase in flights and try to compete with AA on some routes, such as LAX, SFO, DEN and ORD?


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4520 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2545 times:

Quoting BOSPMV (Reply 10):
wouldn't that piss AA off

You just reminded me of a question that pops in my mind everytime I read something here about the AA North Terminal construction project mess.

Yes, AA is very important to MIAA, but does anybody really think that AA would shut down their MIA hub and open a replacement hub somewhere else just because the folks at MIA and Dade County don't give them their every wish?

My guess is AA would throw a tantrum, but they wouldn't leave.

It's too bad our public servants down here in Dade county haven't yet figured that out.

[Edited 2005-06-28 15:42:01]

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 11):
Yes, AA is very important to MIAA, but does anybody really think that AA would shut down their MIA hub and open a replacement hub somewhere else just because the folks at MIA and Dade County don't give them their every wish?

As you said, no way would they leave such a profitable hub operation.



a.
User currently offlineBOSPMV From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2489 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
s you said, no way would they leave such a profitable hub operation.

If you guys thought I was saying AA would either bitch to MIA, or close down their hub operation, thzt was not my intention. I was just saying how would AA react, i.e fares, new routes, etc.


and would another airline, in this case UA, want to try and have a focus city where AA has a hub?


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4520 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2477 times:

Quoting BOSPMV (Reply 13):
If you guys thought I was saying AA would either bitch to MIA, or close down their hub operation, thzt was not my intention. I was just saying how would AA react, i.e fares, new routes, etc.

I know, but that seems to be AA's most effective weapon down here. Threaten the airport and the county government and they usually get what they want!

Quoting BOSPMV (Reply 13):
would another airline, in this case UA, want to try and have a focus city where AA has a hub?

Well, one can wish upon a star... Would be great but I personally do not see that happening. Actually, with the exception of ORD, can anyone think of any other airport (USA airports only) where either:

1) two airlines use the same airport as their hub

and/or

2) one airline uses the airport as a hub, the other airline uses the airport as a focus city?

[Edited 2005-06-28 17:49:20]

User currently offlineBOSPMV From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2467 times:

Well, doesnt LAX serve as a hub for UA and a focus city for AA?

also, DEN is a hub for UA and a hub for F9.

or what about PHL, a hub for US and a focus city for FL

or ATL, a hub for DL and a hub for FL


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4520 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2450 times:

Good observations BOSPMV. For some reason, my brain just couldn't come up with any this morning!

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2438 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 14):
one airline uses the airport as a hub, the other airline
uses the airport as a focus city?

Definitely. LAX is a great example of that -- UA has a "hub" there, but AA has an enormous presence in the LA area and a focus city at LAX that gives UA a run for their money in most key markets.


User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7213 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2403 times:

Quoting BOSPMV (Reply 10):
what type of operation could you see them running out of MIA?
wouldn't that piss AA off and also, knowing AA has a stonrghold on MIA, would UA be willing to attempt a large increase in flights and try to compete with AA on some routes, such as LAX, SFO, DEN and ORD?

Well I dont think UA would have to much of a problem with SFO, They still fly MIA-DEN and MIA-ORD. They used to fly MIA-LAX not to long ago. But others flights that would be intresting if they ever did come back to MIA would be MIA-IAD, MIA-JFK and MIA-GRU or MIA-EZE. It was nice when MIA had UA and AA flying to South America. I miss the UA 777 and 767s down here. But AA sure has done a good job filling in.

Quoting BOSPMV (Reply 13):
and would another airline, in this case UA, want to try and have a focus city where AA has a hub?


They did have a Focus city ops in MIA before 9/11 with around 45 daily flights I think. They even had a FA and Pilot base in MIA.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineNWairlnk07 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2396 times:

With MIA being so close to the Caribbean could TED start flying international to the Caribbean or even seeing United mainline back to South America?

User currently offlineNWairlnk07 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2389 times:

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 18):
I miss the UA 777 and 767s down here

Yeah I miss those widebodies too. I used to fly on the LAX-MIA nonstop route at least once or twice every year. Those flights would either come from or continue to South America so the aircraft were international configured which is always nice.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2393 times:

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 18):
They did have a Focus city ops in MIA before 9/11 with around 45 daily flights I think.

It was a focus city, but not with 45 daily flights. If UA ever operated 45 daily flights from MIA, it was probably 10-15 years ago. Before 9/11, UA's MIA operation consisted of 21 daily flights (ATL x1, EZE x1, CCS x1, ORD x4, DEN x2, LAX x2, LGA x1, MCO x1, GIG x1, SFO x1, SCL x1, GRU x1, IAD x3, and DCA x1). EZE, GRU, DEN, and LAX saw 777s while 767s flew on ORD, GIG, SFO, SCL and IAD routes. UA also had (and still has) codeshares with Gulfstream on flights from MIA to a few destinations in Florida and the Bahamas.

Quoting NWairlnk07 (Reply 19):
With MIA being so close to the Caribbean could TED start flying international to the Caribbean or even seeing United mainline back to South America?

UA is done fighting a losing battle against AA. They will never have the market presence and penetration, or the loyal FF base, like AA has both in MIA and in the various Latin American markets they serve. UA can't win flying a tiny operation out of MIA to a few Latin American cities. The revenue from these flights can't support such a small operation, and as such, I doubt UA will ever again have too much of an international presence from MIA.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2378 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 21):
It was a focus city, but not with 45 daily flights. If UA ever operated 45 daily flights from MIA, it was probably 10-15 years ago. Before 9/11, UA's MIA operation consisted of 21 daily flights (ATL x1, EZE x1, CCS x1, ORD x4, DEN x2, LAX x2, LGA x1, MCO x1, GIG x1, SFO x1, SCL x1, GRU x1, IAD x3, and DCA x1). EZE, GRU, DEN, and LAX saw 777s while 767s flew on ORD, GIG, SFO, SCL and IAD routes. UA also had (and still has) codeshares with Gulfstream on flights from MIA to a few destinations in Florida and the Bahamas.

They operated about 45 daily flights as recently as 1996/1997 or so.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 21):
The revenue from these flights can't support such a small operation, and as such, I doubt UA will ever again have too much of an international presence from MIA.

While I doubt it too, MIA is working on an incentive package to bring UA back.



a.
User currently offlineNWairlnk07 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

On a side note where can you find old timetables and how many flights a city had as Commavia did and as many others do.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2241 times:

Quoting NWairlnk07 (Reply 23):
On a side note where can you find old timetables and how many flights a city had as Commavia did and as many others do.

I was reading out of an old UA timetable. As to where I got it, I used to pick them up all around the world (until, of course, 9/11). Now, the only place you can really still get timetables for a lot of airlines (particularly U.S. ones) that have discontinued them is at airline trade shows and fairs.


User currently offlineDB777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 885 posts, RR: 43
Reply 25, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2210 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
Quoting Commavia (Reply 21):
It was a focus city, but not with 45 daily flights. If UA ever operated 45 daily flights from MIA, it was probably 10-15 years ago. Before 9/11, UA's MIA operation consisted of 21 daily flights (ATL x1, EZE x1, CCS x1, ORD x4, DEN x2, LAX x2, LGA x1, MCO x1, GIG x1, SFO x1, SCL x1, GRU x1, IAD x3, and DCA x1). EZE, GRU, DEN, and LAX saw 777s while 767s flew on ORD, GIG, SFO, SCL and IAD routes. UA also had (and still has) codeshares with Gulfstream on flights from MIA to a few destinations in Florida and the Bahamas.

They operated about 45 daily flights as recently as 1996/1997 or so.

As I recall, UA mainline at their busiest only had about 27 daily flights (weekly total divided by 7 for the less than daily services). That was after they took over Pan Am's routes in 1992 and we moved them from Concourse G to Concourse F. The level of service after they took over the Pan Am routes was underwhelming to say the least. Service to Central America didn't last long at all before they pulled out and reduced the daily flight numbers down to the low 20's.

Are you by any chance counting code-shares and commuters?

Don



Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
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