Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24 Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5706 times:
I wouldn't worry about scab F.A.s's...history shows in past F.A. strikes(no matter who the carrier) the F.A.'s cross the line and work. Not all of course, but just enough to keep em flying. The longer the strike, the more F.A.'s cross. The F.A's aren't like striking pilots or mechanics.
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
Revelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11467 posts, RR: 24 Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5576 times:
A fair use quote:
Quote: Chief Executive Doug Steenland has said Northwest could be forced into bankruptcy if it doesn't get labor concessions.
On Monday, Steenland repeated his pledge to keep flying through a strike.
"Let me be perfectly clear that if that happens, we will maintain the reliability of our schedule. We have comprehensive plans in place to be ready for any contingency," he said in a recorded message to employees.
I agree that management is throwing a tantrum. I wonder if it will change the minds of any of the union members or officials.
The article has a pretty unfortunate typo in a quote attributed to Mathews, the Union spokesman:
"We explained to the company that they have done so much damage to our members that many of them now prefer a stroke or bankruptcy as alternatives to voluntary sacrifices," Mathews wrote.
I really hope the unions members do not prefer a stroke!
M404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2218 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5405 times:
I think that many of the "scabs" are regular system service managers that have gone through some rudimentary training of late.
It would be awhile anyway since the govt has told NW it's too soon to demand arbitration by a supposedly corporate friendly board. Now AMFA has publicly admitted that concessions are necessary, something NWA had said they refused to do prior to this a used that in the argument for arbitration. It's about saving jobs now as well so their will be further discussions.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
Hammer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 687 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5294 times:
NWA has told AMFA to keep their proposal of 16.1%----AMFA wanted the cut, but then wanted a raise (if you can call it that) of 3% the next year....rumor has it NWA and AMFA will try to reach an impass in negotiations again later this week...
Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24 Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5257 times:
From what I read yesterday, the next meeting with NW and unions is July 5th.
I would guess the impasse and release will come around the 15th, give or take a couple of days. That means a strike in mid AUGUST. This is speculative, of course.
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3249 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5169 times:
NW isn't playing a game, it's a matter of survival. Look at the labor cost disadvantage they are at compared to UA and US. Those carriers used CH11 to get labor costs in line with what the market is willing to pay for airline tickets. DL was able to lower labor costs by across the board pay cuts for their mostly non-union labor workforce, plus a new pilot agreement. AA used the threat of CH11 to win concessions from their group. Arbitrators sided with management at AS, suggesting a 26% paycut for the pilot group. After that ruling, and the outsourcing of ramp jobs at SEA, the AS F/A's saw the light. NW has to do something, or very soon they'll be at a huge cost disadvantage with other legacy carriers, let alone the LCC's. The NW pilots were smart to go first. The mech's and FA's should be fighting to be next, not fighting to be last.
I won't be at all surprised to see NW make a move similar to AS, and simply terminate the mechs they don't need. Of course, we'll need to wait for the mediator to release both sides, and go through the cooling off period. Anything else would violate the RLA, and neither side is going to do that right now. But the mid-august showdown is looking more and more like a real possibility.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10674 posts, RR: 62 Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5120 times:
Just seeking opinions of others on A.net -- what is the likelihood of a strike?
Right now, NW and its unions are both spinning like crazy, huffing and puffing and using strong rhetoric. But, in the end, is NW headed for a strike, or will one side or the other cave in? If a strike is come, what is everyone's general view on the timeframe -- are we talking August, or perhaps earlier? Could this dig into NW's peak summer travel season results? Any views appreciated -- thanks in advance.
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3249 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5105 times:
NW has taken more strikes than average in recent history. I'd say there's a better than 50/50 chance of it. In the past, NW shut the airline down during a strike. This time, it sounds like they have other plans.
Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3656 posts, RR: 29 Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5043 times:
In the past NWA could afford a strike. Now they can afford a strike like Steenland needs a hole in the head. IMO, NWA will continue to push hard for consessions and as they meet resistance more threats will come forth. AMFA finally sees the light and is at least willing to negotiate now. As in all negotiations both sides will put forth their best offers and will eventually meet somewhere inbetween. AMFA, PFAA and IAM will stand to lose more if they strike AND if they file Ch 11. It's in their best interest unfortunately, to give back now. At least NWA didn't come charging out of the ring back in 2000 when they started cutting costs by going straight for labor. Labor and alot of service items have been the last things on the list for cutting, over the last 5 years.
IF a 30 day cooling off period ends in not having a TA, there will be no strike. NWA will simply lock them all out and FIRE THEM. At that point scabs will be brought on and the airline will continue to fly. It's much easier to replace a gate agent, ramper, cleaner and flight attendant than it is tro replace pilots and mechanics.
Hopefully the end of the summer will bring a peaceful end to the concessions issue and NWA can fit the last piece of the puzzle into the new business plan.
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3249 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4473 times:
Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 12): IF a 30 day cooling off period ends in not having a TA, there will be no strike. NWA will simply lock them all out and FIRE THEM.
That's not exactly true. At the end of the 30 day cooling off period, both sides may engage in "self help". NW will be able to impose a new contract, which will include the pay and job cuts that they want. They'll be able to offer the jobs, at new terms to current NW mechanics senior enough to keep employment. The mechanics who are senior enough to keep a job may chosse to engage in "self help" by rejecting the contract and striking. But once the strike begins, NWA can replace them, and return to work will have to be negotiated in any agreement that may come after "self help" begins. There's no guarantee that anyone who chooses to strike would be rehired.
Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3656 posts, RR: 29 Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4282 times:
TOLtommy... you've just explained what I said, in a more elaborate sense. At the end of the 30 day cooling of period, yes, they're entitled to self help. The mechanics self help is a strike. The companies self help is a lock out. The company will lock them out and likely fire them all before a full blown strike ensues. NWA is going to proceed business as usual. It won't be the same situation as the pilots "strike" in 1998 where the airline was shut down. In reality, I think Bush will step in and force them to work even if they wanted to strike. Being the eternal optimist that I am, I predict the unions will be scared to the point they'll conceed.
RyanAFAMSP From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3530 times:
You are correct that the company can lock the workers out WHILE AMFA is on strike after the 30-day cooling off period (assuming that Bush doesn't appoint a PEB, which actually I think he is likely to do). BUT, the Railway Labor Act prohibits the hiring of permanent replacement workers. So even if the union loses the strike, and the AMFA mechanics have to come back without their union security clause and on the terms and conditions of the company, the company has to phase back in the AMFA mechanics. They cannot retain the scabs. This is different than under the Wagner Act/Taft-Hartley, where scabs keep their positions (a la the PATCO affair). Of course the airline would jerk the mechanics around, saying there aren't "positions open," likely forcing a second round of legal wrangling. But in terms of FIRING THEM as you said, this is prohibited by the RLA.
My guess is the situation will end up going to the PEB process. NW management may be internally lobbying Bush NOT to appoint a PEB if they think they have a solid enough scab force to break the union. Remember this is what Lorenzo did at Eastern in 1989. Many Texas Air staff were close Bush I confidantes and Reagan white house staff, and the Lorenzo administration carefully lobbied against a PEB so they could break the IAM. Of course there was no PEB, they broke the union, and destroyed the airline. Everyone lost. Bush II at this particular moment is facing sinking popularity and a war that is an ever greater liability. I would guess he would appoint the PEB because it will keep the airplanes flying, and ultimately leave the decision out of his hands.
My heart goes out to the NW mechanics. I was a UA flight attendant in the same situation and I'll never forget what a nightmare it was to go to work during these type of times. Just remember that all of us who fly NW value the work you do, and we know that the scabs can't do the work. I am sure as hell never setting foot on a 40 year old DC-9 worked on by a scab mechanic working on company work rules who can't even take a bathroom break and is on day 5 of mand-ot. I value my life more than that.
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3249 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3367 times:
Unless I'm mistaken, a PEB is a Presidential Emergency Board. Last time there was a PEB was the AA F/A strike. Cooling off period expired, both sides imposed "self help", Clinton stepped in, imposed a PEB that put them back to work.
N867BX From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 339 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2809 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 10): Just seeking opinions of others on A.net -- what is the likelihood of a strike?
It depends on how stupid the union really is.
Quoting N801NW (Reply 13): BTW: Is Don Nyrop still alive? Anyone know?
He's rested, he ready! Lets bring the Donald out of retirement.
Quoting RyanAFAMSP (Reply 17): I am sure as hell never setting foot on a 40 year old DC-9 worked on by a scab mechanic working on company work rules who can't even take a bathroom break and is on day 5 of mand-ot. I value my life more than that.
What makes you think the heavy checks are not outsourced already. So if you don't pay union dues you can't be a competent mechanic?
RyanAFAMSP From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2361 times:
I think - though I am not sure - that all the DC-9 heavy MX is still done in house - even after the ATL DC-9 line closures. Basically the airframes that need D checks are going to the desert - something like 23 this year.
And of course I think non-union mechanics can do their jobs - even though they would do a hell of a lot better for themselves if they were in a union. But work is much harder when done by scabs in a workplace that is on strike. Management is under extreme pressure. They inevitably are running a shit operation, and the mechanics are enduring stress highly unusual for any mechanic - union or non-union. As the airline gets desperate, it can increase hours and deny rest breaks and days off. This decreases the quality of work. Ask the EA scabs. My life is worth more than the quality of work that occurs during a strike.
25 Jeb94: Lets not forget that all flightline mechanics are also AMFA members and NWA employees. These highly skilled and experienced techs will not be so easy
26 Aa777jr: Will the NW flight attendants strike? I've read a few articles regarding hiring people to train as certified flight attendants in the event of labor d
27 Slider: Ryan- Save us the needless fear-mongering. The typical union scare tactics are as predictable as the idea that the sun rises in the east. Yawn.
28 Skibum9: Not true at all!!!! In 1993, AA was pretty much shut down for five days due to an FA strike. While there was some limited crossings, AA kept some fli
29 Isitsafenow: SKIBUM9....ISTRUE!!!!! AA is a lot bigger than NW in fleet and flights per day. NW will fly if the F.A's go on strike. Here's why. The F.A. that is ma
30 Skibum9: in your original statement you did not isolate your statement to NW. You said that history shows, no matter who the carrier, that there would be enoug
31 Isitsafenow: SKIBUM...........Don't mess with experience. On the F.A situation, been there.... seen that....twice safe
32 Aa757first: Kinda a weird situation. The flight attendants being hired will be actual flight attendants according to the union. They will be able to stay at the