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Decline Of Portland, Maine  
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4086 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2442 times:

I've seen that Portland, Maine has slowly (but obviously) lost mainline service. Sure, other cities have as well. But my post is about Portland.

Gone, for the most part, are the following: mainline UA; mainline US (save for one seasonal 733 to PHL); and biggest of all is the news that Delta will be pulling out later this year. Yes, Indy Air has one or two A319s into PWM each day...but that is about the only upgrade in service against a continuing tide of downgrades.

Is it a Portland thing? Is the market just too seasonal to support any kind of major mainline presence? Indeed, I think Independence Air's A319s are seasonal, no? I recall Delta flying 757s to and from Boston, so at one point PWM had what it obviously doesn't have now.

Is it a Manchester thing? Has MHT siphoned off traffic from southern Maine to render PWM a smaller market than it used to be?

Thoughts?

Chris in NH

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

Manchester has Southwest. Look around the passenger parking lots at MHT – you’ll see tons of Lobsters [or what’d they switch to now, a loon or a pinecone as opposed to the venerable ‘Live Free or Die’ in the Granite State].

Maine is a small state population-wise ~ some 1.3ish million residents. Maine is also highly seasonal. After all, those lobster plates told me it’s Vacationland.

My folks – whom are in NB - used to make the 6+ trek to MHT just to sit in an unassigned seat. Now they’re biting the bullet and using BGR, Fredericton (YFC), or Saint John, NB (YSJ).

I’m surprised PWM kept maineline this long.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7532 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2344 times:

Uh NW has 3 DC-9s and an ARJ daily to DTW. So all is not lost

Tomorrow is showing
DTW-PWM
NW 1034 9:03-10:52a DC-9-30
NW 1036 1:40-3:29p DC-9-50
NW 1040 5:39-7:29p DC-9-30
NW 3468 8:55-10:53p ARJ

PWM-DTW
NW 3473 6:01-8:15a ARJ (what a layover!)
NW 1033 8:45-10:53a DC-9-30
NW 1035 12:00-2:10p DC-9-30
NW 1037 4:10-6:19p DC-9-50

Load factor is running 93% tomorrow for PWM flights



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2162 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Thread starter):
Is it a Portland thing? Is the market just too seasonal to support any kind of major mainline presence? Indeed, I think Independence Air's A319s are seasonal, no? I recall Delta flying 757s to and from Boston, so at one point PWM had what it obviously doesn't have now.

Is it a Manchester thing? Has MHT siphoned off traffic from southern Maine to render PWM a smaller market than it used to be?

My guess would be that PWM has been a casualty of the Southwest Effect over at MHT. Real-life example: a couple of co-workers of mine attended a conference over in Portland a year ago. When they compared the PHL-MHT r/t fares (US & WN) vs. PHL-PWM (US only); the price for 2 r/ts to MHT on WN were cheaper than one r/t PWM fare on US. Since they were renting a car for their trip anyway; the rental car fee did not give the PHL-PWM itinerary any advantage over PHL-MHT.

I'm surprised officials at PWM haven't tried (or have they?) to entice WN, FL, and/or even B6 (especially once they get their EMB-190s) to establish service. When did DH come to PWM?



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2123 times:

I wonder how big is MHT airport? How many gates does PWM have?

Photo of PWM

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Photo © Andy Graf - VAP




Airliners.net of the Future
User currently offlinePotomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

i dont know - i'm not sure if this is a PWM demand issue, including a loss of traffic to Manchester, or if it's more just part of the general trend towards more RJs and less mainline for small and some medium sized markets.

and don't forget that PWM is important to people headed towards those parts of maine north and northeast of the airport as well, where manchester isn't an appealing option no matter what the price. i will be flying 2x to PWM this summer on the way to boothbay harbor and acadia national park. and to be honest, flights from the DC area to PWM have always been reasonable out of DCA and IAD, even before Indy came to town.


User currently offlineIFly4UAL From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 3):
When did DH come to PWM?

DH has been serving PWM since Day 1. The A319 service, however, is indeed (as of now anyway) seasonal. Once the A319 service is dropped from the PWM-IAD route for the off-season, it will be replaced by a CRJ.



BGR--Vacation Spot for All the Flying Crazies
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

Quoting September11 (Reply 4):
I wonder how big is MHT airport?

MHT has 2 airliner-length runways which cross... a BEAUTIFUL terminal, with 15 gates... 17 if you count two "A's" stuck onto the other gates on 9 and 15.

A problem is that MHT's terminal is out of gate/counter space already. I flew there several times last summer via US. Top-notch facility! The best of any of those smaller-city airports I've ever seen.

For more info: www.flymanchester.com Interesting on there for your PWM issue is that on their driving directions page they even highlight Portland on the map.


As for PWM though... what's wrong with RJ's? I'd rather have 4 RJ's a day than 1 or 2 mainlines, I'll take frequency/convenience in my city over the size of the plane anyday.


User currently offlineN801NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 744 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2059 times:

Burnsie: Who does NW ops at PWM? 9E, XJ, or NW?

I fly out of PWM, MHT, and BOS. IF PWM is within say $75 or so I'll stay local. When I went to Hawaii all three airports were about the same price, and who needs a two hour drive on top of all that flying.


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1935 times:

mainline US (save for one seasonal 733 to PHL)

US mainline serves PWM pretty much year round, except during the very slow periods, with mainline service to PHL and/or DCA, depending on the time of year.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4086 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1889 times:

I am saddest about Delta abandoning mainline service at PWM. If anyone can shed light on that, please do. This is a carrier that had 2 or 3 757s into PWM daily, from (of all places) Boston and LaGuardia and/or CVG. This goes back to the 1980s. I know DL is undergoing a major overhaul post Labor Day, and MHT is seeing 737-200s in place of MD-88s on a couple flights. For the life of me, I can't fathom why airlines keep relics like this around. Is it true that a 737-200 is a better aircraft on the MHT routes than the MD-88s it will replace? It certainly isn't because we're not filling the MD-88s...I think we most assuredly are.

But getting back to Portland, it's Delta's departure that saddens me most. I know they aren't pulling out entirely, but still...the symbolic departure of mainline jets is a blow to civic pride, to be sure.

Chris in NH


User currently offlineMfricke From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1868 times:

Not just is the pullout of Delta with mainline jets sad for it's affect on civic pride. Iis also sad because it is removing one more of the remnants of the Northeastern route system in Delta's, which Delta merged with around 30 years ago.


ONT - Southern California's Ontario!
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1810 times:

ChrisNH-

I think the biggest thing is the cost of the ticket -v- taking a bus to BOS or MHT. My mom fly to the west cost a few times a years and 9 times out of 10, takes a MaineLine Tours bus to Boston and saves $300.... PLUS she gets to park her car for free, has better services on the bus then she'd ever get on the plane.....with a light snack, a drink and even a movie..!! All that in reality in the same time to fly.....!!



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1774 times:

Quoting Mfricke (Reply 11):
Iis also sad because it is removing one more of the remnants of the Northeastern route system in Delta's, which Delta merged with around 30 years ago.

I believe you meant to say ...remnants of Northeast's route system...

FYI, NE (w/its Yellowbirds) merged into DL in Aug. 1972.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
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