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How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4791 times:

Mir and I were having our third late night chat of the week and this question came up. How expensive are gate leases at JFK and other airports? For example, China Airlines uses Terminal 3 at JFK. Why would they use Terminal 3 when they could easily use Terminal 1 or 4 late at night when their flight is, which are much nicer. I know they have an FFP agreement with Delta, but so do many carriers that don't use T3.

So basically, how competitive are Terminal operators at JFK? When a new airline starts service to JFK, as Air Tahiti is doing in the coming weeks, how different are the price rates between the terminals and why does Air Tahiti choose Terminal 4 while China Airlines chooses Terminal 3.

Any insight is appreciated.

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLuniew From Poland, joined Feb 2005, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

A lot of times its about the airline and the codeshare they are in. LOT used to be partner with AA and the used terminal 8. When they joined Star they went to T4.

Tom

[Edited 2005-06-28 07:06:19]

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25846 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4755 times:

Facilities can be a huge operational issue for airlines.

Some obvious factors include code share partnerships, however most often it comes down to what facilities (ticket counters, gates, lounges) are available based on the proposed schedules, and what prices are offered by the handling companies involved. In addition each terminal depending if its owned by the airport authority or under lease to other private airlines/companies have their own terminal fee structure which also can play a significant role into the equation.

One of the keys in my opinion in today's industry is having facilities. Seemingly its easy to acquire aircraft and launch services, however without facilities to operate from airlines will find their best plans thwarted.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSQ25J From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

Just like any business procuring services...you solicit bids/price request to interested parties....

At JFK Terminal 4 is open to all carriers, so naturally this is an option available to all, otherwise most other terminals will not entertain prospetive carriers. If a carrier is fortunate to have more than one option facilities+handling options will weigh in on price for services.

While so of you may disagree with me...I have been involved in terninal selection process for previous JFK operator-so I know a little about this.


User currently offlineTymnBalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4618 times:

T7 at JFK (the BA terminal) has been pretty aggressive in attracting airlines to it...so much so that it is at capacity during the evening peak.

Some airlines will insist that they do all the handling (i.e. pax and ramp) for any carrier in their terminal whereas others are happy just to lease ticket counter/office space.

Attracting airlines to a terminal is a very competitive business.

C.



Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4505 times:

i dont think it has to do solely with Alliances, if so ... How do you explain BA with United, AF with LF at terminal 1, Swiss is in Terminal 4 not 1.
SAA is still in terminal 3


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4485 times:

Quoting Amirs (Reply 5):
How do you explain BA with United, AF with LF at terminal 1, Swiss is in Terminal 4 not 1.
SAA is still in terminal 3

BA/UA is easy - they had a codeshare relationship (one of the very first) way back when (90's I think, poss. late 80's), and SA)">UA moved into the BA terminal at JFK.

AF/LH were part of the consortium of airlines that jointly developed JFK T1, and so use the joint facility. I'm pretty sure LH would prefer a joint Star Alliance facility with SA)">UA, and AF would like to join up with SA)">DL, but the SA)">DL terminals at JFK suck big time, and T1 is pretty nice, so I think AF and LH will battle to the death to see who keeps T1 and who goes elsewhere - may be they will both stay. It's a bit of a tie, because LH has SQ (Star partner) at T1, while AF has AZ and KE.

SA is in the SA)">DL terminal because of the codeshare with SA)">DL - before they were in T8/T9 with AA when that codeshare was on, and before that they were in the IAB. Who knows where they'll go, maybe if a dedicated Star facility opens they'll go there.

It would make sense probably for the new SA)">DL terminal (if it ever happens) to become the Skyteam facility, maybe T1 could become the Star facility, and the T7/8/9 could form the Oneworld facility. Depends if there's enough room at T1 for SA)">UA as well as LH/SQ/SA/LO/TP/RG/NH/TG et al.

I think LX/SR was always at the IAB, and has stayed on. I don't know if they ever moved to the SA)">DL terminal during the Qualiflyer debacle.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 4381 times:

because LH has SQ (Star partner) at T1,

SQ as well as VS moved to Terminal 4 a while ago now.

while AF has AZ and KE

AeroMexico as well.

i dont think it has to do solely with Alliances, if so ... How do you explain BA with United, AF with LF at terminal 1, Swiss is in Terminal 4 not 1.
SAA is still in terminal 3


Hence the thread.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 4378 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 7):
SQ as well as VS moved to Terminal 4 a while ago now.

Oh. They were in T1 before though, right ?


User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 4323 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 6):
I think LX/SR was always at the IAB, and has stayed on. I don't know if they ever moved to the SA)">DL terminal during the Qualiflyer debacle.

IIRC they were at Delta/T3 for a bit. Way back when.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 8):
Oh. They were in T1 before though, right ? (re: SQ/VS)

Yes

Mike


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21730 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4228 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 6):
because LH has SQ (Star partner) at T1,

SQ went to Terminal 4, as previously mentioned, but OS is still at T1, and TG goes there as well.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 6):
BA/UA is easy - they had a codeshare relationship (one of the very first) way back when (90's I think, poss. late 80's), and SA)">SA)">UA moved into the BA terminal at JFK.

SA)">UA also had some flights (the SFO and LAX routes) out of T6 (current JetBlue terminal). I guess JetBlue eventually pushed them out, though.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4080 times:

SQ went to Terminal 4, as previously mentioned, but OS is still at T1, and TG goes there as well.

TG goes to T4. This is what I'm wondering about. Specifically, why would they choose T4 over T1 or T7 or others.


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4049 times:

Quoting Amirs (Reply 5):
Swiss is in Terminal 4 not 1

It is only a short time ago that Swiss was taken over by LH. I think when the Swiss network will be fully integrated into LH's schedule (at the end of this year) they will change to the terminal where LH is.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21730 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3910 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
TG goes to T4.

According to http://www.panynj.com, they go to T1.

Shorter taxi time, perhaps? The only way T1 will be closer to the runway is if you land on 31L, and arguably 31R. 22L, 4R, and 13L and 13R are all closer to T4.

Also, T4 does have more shops than T1. That's probably why it's popular with the big-name airlines, who can afford to pay for space in it. Those at T1 probably signed long-term contracts while T4 was still the crappy old IAB. That's just my wild theory, but I can't think of a better explanation than that.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
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