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Windowless Window Seats Frustrations  
User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2700 posts, RR: 4
Posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5790 times:

So I bowl on up to the KLM checkin at Heathrow and was dutifully asked if I would like a window seat. As a rule I usually take an aisle but for such a short hop to AMS, I thought sure, why not? Would be nice to have a view for a change. I get my seat allocation - 6F. Sounds good to me.

But low and behold a rather tatty looking 737-300 pulls into the gate and it turns out I'm seated in the one row of the aircraft that for some reason has no window whatsoever.

So I have a couple of questions...

1. Why offer a window seat in a row where there isn't a window (the checkin person announcing that it would be a good view)??

2. Why on earth is there a missing window on a 733 of all types??!! What purpose does this serve? I realise on longer haul/larger aircraft they take windows out where the toilet or galley is positioned, but on a 733!!

Incidentally, when I confronted the flight attendant about the ridiculousness of this, she leaned against the opposite seat and the entire side panel from the armrest down fell off. The plane was in absolute crummy shape and she was right to be embarrassed by it.

This may sound like a rant and it is, but could anyone answer my querries? Particularly number 2.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5746 times:

Quoting Aerokiwi (Thread starter):
1. Why offer a window seat in a row where there isn't a window (the checkin person announcing that it would be a good view)??

Well, for most employees at the check-in desk, to work with an airline is just a job. They have no idea about the type of plane you are going to fly with save for its generic name.
Very seldom are you told that there is no window on that row, that the lockers at smaller there (high wing ac), that there is no seat in front of you (some B373 lay-outs in business), that the seat will not recline (last row), that the pitch is bigger (safety exit seats), that you will look at the separation curtain, ...
You have to find out by yourself, or be lucky to talk with an employee who's also an aviation fan.
Of course, all this could be avoided by information provided by the check-in software. But the airlines want all their seats to be used.


User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5746 times:

The "missing" windows on the 737-300 and on, is for the air conditioning system.

Some 767-300s have windowless seats as well.



"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2700 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5733 times:

Granted not all employees give a rats about the plane, but when you're offered one on the basis that it will be a nice view and a change from your regular seating requests, then you gotta wonder. I shouldn't have to rely on luck. Or is that the new KLM way?

What other airlines have this missing window on their 737s?


User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3821 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5725 times:

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 2):
The "missing" windows on the 737-300 and on, is for the air conditioning system.

Actually, it is a completely different reason. You will notice that the missing windows are at the exact spot where the engine blades are. The fuselage is reinforced in that area to prevent engine blade strike.



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineGlidepath73 From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 1020 posts, RR: 45
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5724 times:

Was your seat in the row nr. 8????

This happened to me once! A 737-400. It seems there going the air pipes for the ac system through. Anyway, it should be marked in the check in computer system as a non window seat!

So if you go on the backfuselage, you'll find definitely a window on your window seat!

Regards,
Patrick



Aviation! That rocks...
User currently offlineN587NK From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5721 times:
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Quoting Breiz (Reply 1):
Well, for most employees at the check-in desk, to work with an airline is just a job. They have no idea about the type of plane you are going to fly with save for its generic name.

I used to be an agent for a UAX carrier and a NW Airlink carrier so i can only speak for those to computer systems. But as an agent when you look at the seat map on the computer it will show you what seats are available. It shows window, center, aisle. As an agent if the computer is showing 6F as a window seat and a pax ask for a window seat thats what you would assign. Unless you (the agent) have actually flown on this aircraft type and sat in that exact seat you wouldnt know that although its showing in the computer as a window seat, it really isnt


User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2700 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5717 times:

I was in 6F of a 737-300 and have never been on this type with a missing window before. And I've been on a lot of airlines' 733s, though never KLMs.

Then to maximise customler satisfaction the few exceptions that exist to this window seat rule should be known to ground staff. It's only fair on the passenger.

I tell ya, the lady on the other side (6A) was even less impressed.

[Edited 2005-06-28 12:19:19]

User currently offlineN587NK From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5707 times:
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Every airline has a slightly different configuration, even though it may be the same A/C type

User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3821 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5690 times:

Again, it is NOT for the AC, it is for the engine blade strike! Actually, I challenge you all to show me ONE 737 in the database that does NOT have the missing window!


All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineSevenair From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 1728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5683 times:

i totally sympathise with your, its not nice to think you are getting awindow seat, only to have nothing to look at except a wall, it happened to me on an md83-the very back row, was truely awful ,and extremely loud, and that was asking for a window.

I agree that most employees dont know/dont want to know, so it is up to ourselves to know what a/c may be operating, and which seats dont have windows. If there is more than one type on the route, ie row X on a 737, row Y on an f100 and ensure that you dont get any X or Y rows.

Check out seatguru.com, but it is mainly aimed at long hauls out to/from USA. But some generic principles can be applied regardless of location.


User currently offlineNudelhirsch From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 1438 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5671 times:

As the perfectly informed enthusiast you seem to be you should have known yourself that this row does not have a window... Wink


Putana da Seatbeltz!
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14003 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5630 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 4):
Actually, it is a completely different reason. You will notice that the missing windows are at the exact spot where the engine blades are. The fuselage is reinforced in that area to prevent engine blade strike.

Bullshit.

The reason why B737 from the -300 upwards don't have a window in front of the wing root is that this is where the two riser ducts (one on each side), which move the conditioned air from the snake pit (mixing bay) between the center wing box and the forward cargo hold upwards to the lengthwide distribution duct in the cabin ceiling are located. There is no strengthened fuselage in this or any other position. The engines are designed to contain any blade failure.

On the B737-200 there were instead of two big fiber glass ducts several smaller hoses between the windows, so that on the B737-200 there was a complete row of windows.

Jan

[Edited 2005-06-28 12:47:44]

[Edited 2005-06-28 12:48:11]

[Edited 2005-06-28 12:48:33]

User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1008 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5595 times:
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I suggest that a.net should have a section that is updated by a.nutters that has diagrams of a/c with good viewing seats (and horrible ones). Like http://www.seatguru.com but with the planespotter in mind. We can enhance the page by having links from seats to photos taken from that particular seat.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12111 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5534 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

All B733s to B739s have a window missing on each side for wires, cables etc.

User currently offlineDerik737 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 333 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5482 times:

Jan is correct. The ECS ducts are installed in the locations asked about. It's too bad that they take away a "window" seat.

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5458 times:

Quoting Aerokiwi (Thread starter):
Why on earth is there a missing window on a 733 of all types

Air Conditioning Riser Ducts on Either side pass through that location.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 4):

Actually, it is a completely different reason. You will notice that the missing windows are at the exact spot where the engine blades are. The fuselage is reinforced in that area to prevent engine blade strike.

On a Turbofan  Smile I've worked on B737s I've yet to see Fuselage reinforcement for avoiding Blade detachment on a B737 mounted Turbofan.
This is not a Turboprop.
The only reinforcement for Blade detachment is the Wing Tank Access panels.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 12):
On the B737-200 there were instead of two big fiber glass ducts several smaller hoses between the windows, so that on the B737-200 there was a complete row of windows

The Riser ducts on the B732s are from the Right side & are narrow ducts leading to the overhead distribution ducts.
BTW the B732 has a Two wider riser ducts,one on each side,whereas the B734s have totally Three.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 14):
All B733s to B739s have a window missing on each side for wires, cables etc.

For Air Conditioning Riser Duct/Ducts.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineXkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5406 times:

in a related note, why does DL 767's also have some windowless window seats while other carriers with 767 (like AA) have all the windows where they should be?

for example:
missing windows in row 13, 18 & 20:
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Del...elta_Airlines_Boeing_767-300_D.php

All windows in there (for row 6, you need to lean, i guess because of the additional space in business)
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ame...erican_Airlines_Boeing_767-300.php

so what is the need of DL not having all the windows when AA, with the same plane type, has them?


User currently offlineG-KIRAN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2000, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5304 times:

The trick I use is to ask for a wondow seat near the back. That way there is no chance of getting a blocked up window. Only one aircraft has a blocked up window near the back, and those are Malaysia Airlines 747s. The 3rd from last row on the right hand side has its window blocked.

User currently offlineBNAflyer78 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5194 times:

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 7):
I was in 6F of a 737-300 and have never been on this type with a missing window before. And I've been on a lot of airlines' 733s, though never KLMs.

I fly US quite often and avoid row 6 on their 733's due to a lack of a window.

Ben



Long live the Widget!
User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5152 times:

All 747 have conditioned air riser ducts blocking three windows on each side over the wing at fuselage stations 1110, 1150, 1190.

Contrary to what is shown on seatguru, AS 73G have 9A and 9F blocked by the riser ducts. This is due to a seat repitch not reflected on the website.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5119 times:

I was once put in a window seat on an LH 321 that was the seat next to the 3R door, which didn't have much in the way of a window. That was a bit frustrating, but it was only a short flight, so it wasn't a huge issue.

What I really hate is the seat in the 747 that is next to the A/C duct. Fortunately I've never been right next to it, but I've been one row ahead or behind on occasion. An 8+ hour flight in a window seat with no window?  yuck 

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineIFixPlanes From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5012 times:

Here are some drawings:



Ingo



never tell an engineer he is wrong ;-)
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4547 times:

Hey why don't you try the CRJ900 where every row except for the last two and a few in the front, the seats are positioned so you are looking at the space between the two windows, so it might as well be a windowles plane. So basically the windows are located adjacent to the seatbacks, very annoying. I'm not sure but this applies only to the left side of the cabin.

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