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Business As Usual At Delta  
User currently offlineNYCAA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4152 times:

After much ado about their SONG product it looks as though it is turning out to be the same old Delta. Senior management at Song and Delta made some pretty big promises to those employees willing to work at Song from the beginning. In return for lower wages and a variety of other work rules less than their counterparts at Delta, they were promised to remain at the top of the seniority list at Song should the airline grow and assume routes from Delta. Each and every Delta employee was aware that Song would grow if it was successful. Song created a new and exciting product that was completely different from Delta and their competition. I have had the chance to fly on Song several times since their inception. They are an incredible group of people. All departments working together as a team and just an overall fresh new attitude in this industry. As a flight attendant with another carrier I know how tough it is to work the Florida markets and my hat was off to them time and time again. Now that Song has expanded management is breaking their promises to the Song employees. It looks as though any Delta employee coming over to Song will be bringing along with them their full seniority. This is the thanks that they get for their hard work in building this award winning and successful product for Delta. I feel bad for you all as we know how important seniority is in our job as flight attendants. Once again broken promises from the management team. Maybe it's time to say yes to another union on the property.

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6586 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3991 times:

This is unfortunate, but one of the problems when you attempt to create an "airline within an airline." Unfortunately, Song has done a decent job of pitting DL employees against Song employees.

I don't think a union would have done much good. As we've seen in many cases the unions have offered little protection for their membership.


User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3953 times:

First of all, a union did try to come on the property in 2002 and was voted down to the tune of 73%. Despite what kind of rhetoric AFA throws out, it was still voted down and they are still pissed that their 10 year, $5 million dollar rally backfired. If DL attendants want a union, it will come on.

Secondly, where is your proof of this? You don't have any? Gotcha. Right now, Song is growing and Song employees, "founders" as they are called, were promised to keep their full seniority if Song was successful and expanded. It has and now many mainline attendants want to move over, but keep their seniority. As of yet, nothing has come to fruition on whether it happens or not. My answer would be to the mainline attendants, "Tough luck, you had your chance in 2003, you hesitated, thinking Song might not work, you were wrong, you lose out. Period."

Thirdly, nothing has happened to pit DL employees against Song employees. In fact, we all still work together to make it work, just as NYCAA has stated. Its a completely different operation and those Song employees have done an exemplary job of getting it to work. Great job folks!

I am recommending this threat be deleted due to baseless rumors and no factual information.


OttoPylit


User currently offlineNYCAA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3910 times:

I agree that the mainline flight attendants had their chance and the Song flight attendants deserve to keep their seniority. In response to were are the facts. You will see them this week. An announcement is planned for this coming Thursday. The way it sounds is that current mainline flight attendants will be slotted in. This is one heck of a thank you from Delta to the Song flight attendants who are the ones making this product successful. Maybe it's time for management to realize that customers don't come back because of their managerial skills. They come back because of the customer service they receive and flight attendants are the ones who spend the most time with the customer. Regardless of what Delta decides to do you are the ones who deserve the credit for the success of Song.

User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6586 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3890 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 2):
I am recommending this threat be deleted due to baseless rumors and no factual information.

Half the threads on this board would be closed if we used this criteria.

Of course, the real reason you want this thread closed is that you don't like what it has to say. If it was a positive rumor about Song, you would be fine with the thread. But because it's a negative rumor about Song, you want the thread deleted.

I've met plenty of DL employees that despise Song. They are angry that DL is investing millions in the Song product, while continuing to cut the mainline product to bare bones. Instead of fixing the entire company, DL is just focusing on creating a quality product for a tiny segment of the DL market.

I know many of DL's FA's are embarrassed by the service they get to provide particularly in the F cabin.


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3823 times:

This just doesn't seem like a big deal. Song is/was hiring hundreds of flight attendents that will fall below the original Song founders in Seniority. Not to mention older FA's at Delta are retiring in droves.

User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3805 times:

Quoting NYCAA (Thread starter):
Song created a new and exciting product that was completely different from Delta and their competition. I have had the chance to fly on Song several times since their inception. They are an incredible group of people. All departments working together as a team and just an overall fresh new attitude in this industry. As a flight attendant with another carrier I know how tough it is to work the Florida markets and my hat was off to them time and time again.

This was the part that FLYPNS could just not accept. I think his brain just ran over the words without comprehension...LOL. The brain waves went completely silent until he remembered that grizzeled ole ramper for Delta in PNS that told him he "despised" Song...LOL


User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3655 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 4):
Half the threads on this board would be closed if we used this criteria.

Then it would make the boards more interesting.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 4):
Of course, the real reason you want this thread closed is that you don't like what it has to say. If it was a positive rumor about Song, you would be fine with the thread. But because it's a negative rumor about Song, you want the thread deleted.

Um, no, I want the threat closed because, like I said, it is a baseless rumor. Plus, the sounding off for a union seems like this is more of a union drive thread instead of anything else. Besides, if it were a positive rumor about Song, I wouldn't consider it rumor, I would consider it fact. LOL

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 4):
I've met plenty of DL employees that despise Song. They are angry that DL is investing millions in the Song product, while
continuing to cut the mainline product to bare bones. Instead of fixing the entire company, DL is just focusing on creating a quality product for a tiny segment of the DL market.

Really? Thats funny, because if so many DL employee's despise Song, then why(as the threadstarter indicated) are so many employee's wanting to go to Song? I have met many DL employees that are impressed with Song, otherwise, they would not be willing to go to another sector of the company and be paid less, work longer, and pay more for benefits. But I guess in your experience around DL and Song in PNS, I'm sure you would know more than me on the subject, right?

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 4):
I know many of DL's FA's are embarrassed by the service they get to provide particularly in the F cabin.

I would be more embarrassed by the service to be provided in the Y cabin. But, I agree with you there. It is embarrassing. But, its just something to use until DL returns to profitability, then they will bring out the decent ware again.

Quoting NYCAA (Reply 3):
In response to were are the facts. You will see them this week. An announcement is planned for this coming Thursday. The way it sounds is that current mainline flight attendants will be slotted in.

Then lets just wait until the announcement then, wouldn't that be the most prudent thing to do, and then bash them?


User currently offlineNYCAA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3531 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 7):
Um, no, I want the threat closed because, like I said, it is a baseless rumor. Plus, the sounding off for a union seems like this is more of a union drive thread instead of anything else. Besides, if it were a positive rumor about Song, I wouldn't consider it rumor, I would consider it fact. LOL

This is not about sounding off for a union. It is about sounding off for the Song flight attendants. They worked hard to build this airline into what it is today. Most people said it would not work. Guess what? It did. Better than anyone could have expected. Now that things have changed the Delta flight attendant wants the flying back on their terms. After all the promises Song and Delta made to the Song employees (yes, some of them were in writing) they are getting stabbed in the back by management. The same employees who deserve all the credit for Song being a success are getting screwed.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 7):
Then lets just wait until the announcement then, wouldn't that be the most prudent thing to do, and then bash them?

I have several friends who fly for Song. Upper management, including the president of Song held a conference call yesterday. At that time they were told that a decision on seniority will be announced this Thursday. This announcement will most likely be some form of seniority integration, which of course negates all promises that management made to the Song Founders. Simply not right, fair, and definitely not good business. What is currently an exceptional product will now become the (S.O.N.G. same old nasty girls).


User currently offlineNYCAA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3318 times:

After all the hard work from the Song flight attendants, Delta/Song has decided to slot Delta flight attendants into the Song seniority list. So much for the promises that Song made to them. The employees of Song created an awesome product. It is sad to see that Delta could not recognize this and honor their commitment to the Song founders. At one time Delta was a company that stood by their word. I guess even they have changed.

User currently offlineNYCAA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3289 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 7):
Then lets just wait until the announcement then, wouldn't that be the most prudent thing to do, and then bash them?

The announcement was made and the Song employees are the ones who lose.


User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3254 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 4):
Half the threads on this board would be closed if we used this criteria.

More like 98.7%.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3212 times:

NYCAA:

Are you kidding me? Sounds like you're merely a union organizer, trying to stir the pot:

"At one time Delta was a company that stood by their word. I guess even they have changed."

"As a flight attendant with another carrier I know how tough it is to work the Florida markets and my hat was off to them time and time again. Now that Song has expanded management is breaking their promises to the Song employees."

Come on, your motives are very transparent. I presume you're a New york based AA flight attendant. Stop wasting your time; Delta F/A's overwhelmingly rejected an organization attempt by AFA, and APFA doesn't ahve the horsepower to organize Delta. Worry a little more about the inconsistent service passengers receive on your carrier and a little less about what goes on at other airlines.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4746 posts, RR: 45
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 12):
Worry a little more about the inconsistent service passengers receive on your carrier and a little less about what goes on at other airlines.

AMEN!

The only carrier I've ever actually received consistent service, and good service at that (even though they've cut to bare bones) is Delta.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineNYCAA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3119 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 12):
Are you kidding me? Sounds like you're merely a union organizer, trying to stir the pot:

This is not about organizing a union. This is about Song/Delta honoring their promises to the Song flight attendants. They worked hard to create this product and deserve to be rewarded. The reward needs to be Song/Delta honoring their word. If you call letting people know what is happening stirring the pot, then I guess I am. Yes, I am a NYC based AA flight attendant. Again this is not about unions. Many of my friends now fly for Song and I saw the enthusiasm they had for the company. I was even a bit jealous seeing how much fun they were having and how well they were treated. This is about Song/Delta doing the right thing. Plain and simple what they have done to the Song flight attendants is wrong.

[Edited 2005-06-30 22:20:50]

[Edited 2005-06-30 22:21:13]

User currently offlineJetpixx From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 845 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3072 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 13):
The only carrier I've ever actually received consistent service, and good service at that (even though they've cut to bare bones) is Delta.

I fully agree with the statement above. No matter how many times I have flown Delta - which has to be over a hundred now, I have received great service, more often than not - on-time flights (not incl. weather, etc.) - and friendly staff. I am a die-hard SkyMiles fan - and I have started to return to CO and NW recently only because of fares to places DL does not have a stronghold. I do like DL to the west and northeast, especially when I can use Song. I just took a Song flight JFK-PBI on Sunday and it was fantastic service.


User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3010 times:

Quoting NYCAA (Reply 14):
Plain and simple what they have done to the Song flight attendants is wrong.

Perhaps you need to stick to worrying about your own airline's problems. For example, what AA is doing by fighting repeal of the Wright Amendment is wrong and just plain selfish. Until AA is perfect I would lay off the criticism of Delta. I'll second what has been said above...despite Delta's problems they still have the best customer contact people in the business.


User currently offlineNYCAA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2994 times:

Quoting ORD (Reply 16):
Until AA is perfect I would lay off the criticism of Delta.

I don't recall saying that AA is perfect. I will be the first to say they are far from perfect. This is about the people of Song. It's just wrong to make promises as they did to the Song employess and then go back on them.


User currently offlineDartland From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 643 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2950 times:
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Sounds like we should wait until we hear from a Song or DL F/A. Unless one of them cares to comment, really no point in a bunch of onlookers lamenting or arguing about their situation.

I will concur however that Song has the best domestic Y class service I have seen. I haven't flown Delta mainline in years (all my routes are now Song -- lucky me!) but I fly Song a fair amount and have been extremely impressed with them.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6713 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2898 times:

Quoting NYCAA (Reply 14):
This is not about organizing a union. This is about Song/Delta honoring their promises to the Song flight attendants.



Quoting NYCAA (Thread starter):
This is the thanks that they get for their hard work in building this award winning and successful product for Delta. I feel bad for you all as we know how important seniority is in our job as flight attendants. Once again broken promises from the management team. Maybe it's time to say yes to another union on the property.

Nope, not trying to stir the pot of union organization at all...


User currently offlineFloris From Netherlands, joined Jun 2003, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2875 times:

Why is a New York based AA flight attendant complaining about a how Delta treats Song flight attendants? Am I missing something here? The better subject would be how AA and its flight attendants are treating former TWA flight attendants.

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4746 posts, RR: 45
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2825 times:

Quoting NYCAA (Reply 17):
I don't recall saying that AA is perfect. I will be the first to say they are far from perfect.

That's an understatement. Considering on my last AA flight the F/As were selling pins that were the head of a screw for $1. They told customers it symbolizes their drive to tell AA management to go screw themselves.

The most unprofessional people I have ever seen!



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4430 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2799 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 21):
That's an understatement. Considering on my last AA flight the F/As were selling pins that were the head of a screw for $1. They told customers it symbolizes their drive to tell AA management to go screw themselves.

Are you serious?

Date and flight # please.

[Edited 2005-07-01 03:35:39]

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

Quoting Floris (Reply 20):
Why is a New York based AA flight attendant complaining about a how Delta treats Song flight attendants? Am I missing something here? The better subject would be how AA and its flight attendants are treating former TWA flight attendants.

That subject has been beaten to death! Sorry the TWA union agreed to the terms of the buy out by AA and like others have pointed out if AA had not bought them, then TWA most likely would have boughten the farm in time.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4746 posts, RR: 45
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2777 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 22):
Are you serious?

Date and flight # please.

Very serious. Can't remember the exact date, it was in October 2004 on the 6am flight from LGA-DFW. Trying to find the exact date/flight number...If i can I'll post.

While I understand frustration with management and their respective actions, I do not feel it's professional to display your frustration with your customers. I personally have nothing against AA, they're a good company, just not Delta in my opinion..



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
25 N62NA : Please do some research if possible, and post the date and flight #. Then, NYCAA can (hopefully) go back into the AA system and (again hopefully) find
26 NYCAA : I agree. That is unprofessional behavior and I would not even attempt making an excuse for this. This is not about AA. My partner is a flight attenda
27 Alitalia744 : A) Do you honestly think an employee will admit to doing that onboard a flight with paying customers? B) I'm sure NYCAA has either heard of or seen t
28 Post contains images Alitalia744 : NYCAA- two things. 1) You're right, this thread isn't about AA and I didn't mean to bash AA. I still fly them once in a while and have met many emplo
29 Post contains images N62NA : Perhaps to a fellow employee, since they weren't exactly doing this in secret. Well, NYCAA? No, you don't have to justify answers and opinions. But a
30 NYCAA : Actually, no I have not heard of any AA flight attendants doing this recently. After the TWA acquisition there was a group of former TWA flight atten
31 Alitalia744 : To correct myself, it was an MD-80 flight from EWR-DFW in July 2003. I'll get the flight number tomorrow from my corporate travel department and then
32 NYCAA : Thank you. Being in July of '03 it was shortly after our restructuring agreement was put into place. There was a lot of bitterness and sadly some of
33 Post contains images Alitalia744 : No need to apologize. Shit happens. I still fly AA Hope your boys shit works out and gets his own.
34 Positiverate : I find this whole topic, started by NYCAA, to be very ridiculous. NYCAA, you're speaking in generalities. OttoPylit had it right in the 3rd post. Quit
35 Tu154m : DELTA...........Don't Ever Let Them Advance...................Them being the employees!!!!!!!!(SONG....Same Ole Nonsense, Gerry). It will never end.
36 Positiverate : I suppose that would be funny if Gerry had been the one to start Song...
37 NYCAA : Yes they like working there. I even said earlier that I was a bit jealous of how well they had been treated. That has since changed. This is not abou
38 OttoPylit : Well, if you say so, but I'm gonna go to work tomorrow and if I don't see it on the Song intranet site, then your gonna have some explaining to do...
39 DeltaMIA : Its partially correct. There will be an integrated seniority list. However Song still hires based on qualifications and personality. Seniority is mea
40 Ikramerica : Mouthpieces bug me. Notice the way NYCAA doesn't deny things, only deflects them and then just repeats his same assertion over and over? When asked i
41 NYCAA : That's right I have not denied that some AA flight attendants are unprofessional. As a matter of fact you will find unprofessional flight attendants
42 OttoPylit : Ok, just picked up the info and here's what we got. And it sounds pretty darn good to me. Basically, it was a memo sent to Song employees to basically
43 B707Stu : In the name of disclosure, what role do you play in your Union?
44 Padcrasher : Oh man PNSboy will be so dissapointed..LOL
45 NYCAA : Obviously you don't understand what a 2 for 1 slotting means. What trip you are holding today, you may not be able to hold it tomorrow. Again, I had
46 OttoPylit : Despite the slotting difference, if you look at EVERYTHING ELSE that has been instituted instead, the positives, by far outweigh the negatives. Consid
47 DeltaMIA : You should know this more than most, but Song FA lines are all the same. The only difference is days off. All the lines have the same trips, same O-D
48 Post contains images SongStar : This is a little general....actually the bidding system is a preferential system...all the "lines" are not the same...not all lines have O days...and
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