Art From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 2937 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7679 times:
Scenario 1:
You are in central London. You're going to Paris. You get a taxi/lift/tube train to the station. There you get your ticket from the machine, go through the barrier, go through security checks immigration and get on the train with your baggage.
About 2 hours 40 minutes later you get out of the train. You are in central Paris. Strangely, you still have your baggage with you since nobody at the station decided to take it from you and put it on the train to Hannover/Honolulu/Hongkong. You get a taxi/lift/metro train to your destination.
Scenario 2:
You are in central London. You're going to Paris. You get a taxi/lift/tube train to Heathrow. You go into the terminal, find the check in, stand behind some other travellers for a time, check in your baggage, go through passport control, go through security, walk to the departure lounge, wait there for a time, get on the plane, fly to Paris, get off the plane, walk to customs and immigration, stand behind some other travellers for a time, go through immigration, go to the baggage reclaim, stand there with some other travellers for a time, go through customs, leave the terminal, a) get a taxi to Paris or b) walk to the car park with the people collecting you then drive to Paris or c) wait for an airport bus, get the bus to the airport station, buy a ticket for the train, wait for the train, get on the train. After a few minutes you get out of the train. You are in central Paris. You get a taxi/lift/metro train to your destination. Total door to door trip time not a lot less than 4 hours. A lot longer if you need to report any missing baggage.
Is there some attraction in flying London-Paris that has escaped me? If not, why do people still do it?
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7658 times:
Well, these days, flying can often be quite a bit cheaper than taking the train. Also, connecting traffic does not want to schelp into the city (trust me, I have done it) to get the train. Finally, some people like those miles
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7176 posts, RR: 45 Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7668 times:
Very good point but I have one POSSIBLE answer: sometimes flying is cheaper than taking the Eurostar. Okay, so I don't know for sure if this is the case with LON-PAR, but at least that's the reason why last summer I flew SN from LHR to BRU on a Sunday morning at 06:50 instead of taking the train. Flying one way was 35 pounds, all taxes and charges included... taking the Eurostar one way was above 120 euros.
B747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7636 times:
Scenario 3 :
You are in suburban SW London. You're going to somewhere in suburban NE Paris.
You take your local bus to Heathrow and go straight through security and to your plane (you've already checked in online). If you have some time to spare, you pop by the lounge for a quick drink and email check.
An hour later you land in Paris. The French immigration officer is half asleep and doesn't even glance at the expired dog license you wave in his general direction. You stroll to the RER station right inside the airport and voila, a few stops later and you're there.
BCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 18 Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7379 times:
Although it does seem strange, I think that some people have a fear of being trapped in the Channel Tunnel, particularly as there was a fire on a freight train a few years back and the images of the drivers who had to flee from the trains via the escape tunnel might still be in people's minds.
I know more people who are scared of long tunnels than those who are afraid of flying.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7329 times:
Quoting B747-437B (Reply 3): The French immigration officer is half asleep and doesn't even glance at the expired dog license you wave in his general direction
Hehe - "Operation Vigipirate" at its finest
Admittedly flying does seem to be a bit of an effort, but it depends where you're headed. From central London to central Paris, Eurostar wins hands down. From/to anywhere else, it's a two-horse race, as long as the elastic bands and paper-clips holding Swanwick together don't ping off in all directions or catch fire. The minute there's a technical hitch, I'd much rather be on the train - at least you have the option to get out and walk.
AirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2091 posts, RR: 23 Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7299 times:
Scenario 1:
You are in London, and you need to get to Paris.. The train is delayed, so you have to wait 3 hours for the train to depart the station. You get to Paris 5 hours after you got to the train station.
Scenario 2:
You are in London, and you need to get to Paris.. Check-in goes smoothly, and the plane leaves on time. You get to Paris early enough to eat lunch in the middle of Paris. Extra Bonus: You also saved some money
AirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2091 posts, RR: 23 Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7252 times:
Quoting Zonky (Reply 9): Yes, because there are *never* any delays at Heathrow.
Yes, because there are never any delays at Eurostar train stations..
my point is, that the question does not lead to any specific answer.. It is an individual opinion what you like the most, or if you are afraid of sitting in a train or a plane or so...
Planenutz From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1267 posts, RR: 12 Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7248 times:
There was a special report on the BBC radio about Eurostar vs. flying. It boils down to the fact that flying is simply much more competitievly priced. Especially with the low fares offerd by Ryanair and.or EasyJet and advanced purchase fares from LHR on bmi or BA.
Eurotunnel, Inc. the operator of the channel tunnel is saddled with a HUGE amount of dept stemming from the initial construction costs of the tunnel itself and related infrastructure. Eurostar, the franchise which operates the trains is responsible for trying to recoup that dept while at the same time trying to maintain a small profit. This coupled with the conveniece of traveling from central London to central Paris equals high fares.
There's also the issue of catchment area. The Eurostar has a relatively small catchment area limited to city centers and areas that are not convenient to outer suberbs where more people actually live, and where an increasingly larger number of business have located operations.
Lastly, the rail stations lack vertain amenities that airports offer, especially short and/or long term parking. There was an effort to open car rental facilities at Gare du Nord, but the rental companies had to charge exorbident prices to offset the costs associated with storing vehicles in city centers, etc.
Icarus75 From France, joined Oct 2003, 768 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7182 times:
When I go to London, about 3 times a year, I always take a flight, booked well in advance : it's not expensive, going from LHR to center London is very quick but the main reason is : I'M SCARED TO TAKE THE TUNNEL!!!!!
TGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 868 posts, RR: 23 Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7111 times:
Quoting Planenutz (Reply 12): Eurotunnel, Inc. the operator of the channel tunnel is saddled with a HUGE amount of dept stemming from the initial construction costs of the tunnel itself and related infrastructure. Eurostar, the franchise which operates the trains is responsible for trying to recoup that dept while at the same time trying to maintain a small profit. This coupled with the conveniece of traveling from central London to central Paris equals high fares.
Eurotunnel and Eurostar are totally different companies.
Eurostar is owned by the railways companies (French railways, Belgian Railways, and a special company in the UK, as it is only one of the many franchises of the UK rail network).
There is an agreement between Eurostar and Eurotunnel on a "minimum usage charge" which obliges Eurostar to pay a certain annual fee for tunnel usage regardless of the number of passengers using the service.
As it was based on numbers of passengers higher than what they are in reality (when traffic forecasts were made for the Tunnel, LCCs were not in the picture) this leads to a quite high cost per Eurostar passenger.
But this minimum usage fee is near to disappear (this year I think) and will be replaced by a fee proportional to the number of passengers using the service, so this could lead to more competitive pricing by Eurostar.
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
Gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5217 posts, RR: 6 Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7024 times:
Why? PRICE!
A real example, although getting a bit old:
Jan 02, 2 adults, 2 teenagers who have an open jaw ticket SYD-KIX-MXP, CDG-NRT-SYD are travling around Italy/UK/France need to get from London to Paris and I really want to travel on Eurostar, so I start looking at ticket prices:
Eurostar, advanced purchase, standard class GBP170 EACH adult, GBP45 EACH teenager, total cost GBP430 (about $A1220)
Buzz, now Ryanair, STN-CDG, GBP20 each, total GBP80 (about $A220)
An extra $A1000 to take the train! Even adding half a STN express and a one way RER ticket each its still no contest, belive me! Unfortunately Eurostar is simpley not price competive.
Gemuser
PS The haul tickets Oz-Europe-Oz were $A1450 each, including the 4 star hotel in KIX for the next day connection.
Eha From France, joined May 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6918 times:
If you like to do some plane spotting when on hold, then it is quite interesting to fly CDG-LHR. Unless they decide you'll stay on ground until traffic is clear at your destination. Other than that, the ride is boring and short. Interesting only if you connect or have a business meeting at the airport or nearby.
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6884 times:
Quoting Geoffm (Reply 16): Surely it's just passport control for UK-France flights?
Technically you do pass through Customs, although as a passenger originating from within the EU you are not required to declare anything legal you have with you. They are still allowed to stop you and check for illegal substances etc. Just they can't be arsed.
TGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 868 posts, RR: 23 Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6770 times:
Quoting Geoffm (Reply 16): Planenutz wasn't wrong in his answer. The only subtlety is that Eurostar only run the Waterloo-Brussels/Paris services, not the lorry/car shuttles.
I don't want to start any Anglo-French war, but when it is written:
"Eurostar, the franchise which operates the trains is responsible for trying to recoup that dept (note: I assumed it meant debt) while at the same time trying to maintain a small profit" this implies that Eurostar is linked with Eurotunnel and has to pay Eurotunnel debt.
This is not the case: Eurostar has to pay to Eurotunnel usage charges for crossing the tunnel. But Eurotunnel is the only company responsible for the debt.
And yes Eurotunnel operates directly the Shuttle services (and even planned to operate directly trains on the conventional network in Europe, but this was cancelled due to the financial risk involved).
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
Pihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 3496 posts, RR: 72 Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6506 times:
Here is another scenario everybody seems to have overlooked :
You are in central London, jump in a cab or take the tube to the docks and grab a plane -8 to ten times a day- from London city to CDG or ORY,catch a RER and you're in Paris downtown. Time 1hr45 mins.
'Course ! it,s more expensive, but for a rich lad like you, time is money, ain't it?
Rom1 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 134 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6415 times:
I took Eurostar for the first time last month going to Paris, it was really nice as well and time didn't seem too long...
Mainly flying is cheaper from Heathrow to CDG but i agree with the fact that going from CDG to Central Paris by RER (train) is a bit long (30 minutes) and expensive...
But as a plane enthousiast I just love spending time in an airport, even if Heathrow doesn't offer a lot of places inside their terminal to take pictures... (terminal 2 for Air France, Terminal 4 is ok for BA!, don't know about BMI in terminal 1 I guess)
I'm sad that BA moved to Terminal 2A in CDG, terminal 1 is a lot better for spotting there!...
also i don't live in Central London, but if so, i would definitly take the train....
ORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6196 times:
I book a lot of business travelers to Europe and the vast majority take the train. They are price sensitive but the train is simply more efficient. I would prefer the train as well but I am a bit more price conscious than my business travelers.
The cost factor is becoming an issue for train travel across Europe. The rail companies need to realize that they are now in a price war with air travel.
As a resident of the U.S. we get lots of special passes and discounts not available to E.U. residents.
As big as a comercial aviation fan that I am I do prefer the train in Europe. It is a much more civilized way to travel on the shorter distances.
Cambrian From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 617 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6130 times:
Scenario __:
A friend from Barbados was travelling BGI-CDG 2 weeks ago.
She did not realise that BA no longer serve Paris from Grotwick and having endured an overnight flight, had to get on the coach to LHR in the morning rush hour and then check in all over again at LHR for the short flight to CDG.
I find it hard to explain why there are no flights to either ORY or CDG from LGW. What do other connecting passengers do?
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6094 times:
Quoting BCAL (Reply 6): I think that some people have a fear of being trapped in the Channel Tunnel
What for? At least there is an escape tunnel. You don't escape a plane crash
Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 8): You are in London, and you need to get to Paris.. The train is delayed, so you have to wait 3 hours for the train to depart the station. You get to Paris 5 hours after you got to the train station.
Except that Eurostar has a much better ontime record than the airlines on the LON-PAR route and gives passengers who are delayed, no matter the issue, free tickets
And you are not scared to fly in a much smaller aluminum tube flying at 75-80% the speed of sound 5-10 kms above the earth?
Quoting Gemuser (Reply 15): Buzz, now Ryanair, STN-CDG, GBP20 each, total GBP80 (about $A220)
Ryanair does not fly to CDG. If you fly Ryanair to "Paris" you land in Beauvais and are in for a really nasty trek into the city
Quoting Gemuser (Reply 15): Eurostar, advanced purchase, standard class GBP170 EACH adult, GBP45 EACH teenager, total cost GBP430 (about $A1220)
170 GBP return for each adult? You did not pay the cheapest fare.
Quoting Pihero (Reply 20): Mainly flying is cheaper from Heathrow to CDG but i agree with the fact that going from CDG to Central Paris by RER (train) is a bit long (30 minutes) and expensive...
Taking the RER into central Paris costs about as much as the Tube journey in London and takes about half the time. Faster options in London cost much more.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 BCAL: BA used to operate a LGW/CDG service but this was recently dropped due to unprofitability. I think that as people living near LGW could go to Waterlo
26 BCAL: I asked the same question of someone who was afraid of using the Channel Tunnel and their reply was that they felt safer in a plane, where you would
27 N1120A: U2 flies the route. And of course they are irrational and illogical
28 BCAL: U2 flies from LTN not LGW (at least when I checked their website again a few minutes ago). I can understand their fears and concerns!
29 LoungeLover: OK, now I do London-Paris-London about 4 to 6 times a month for both business and leisure and I have tried and tested both Scenarios. Scenario 1: you
30 Rom1: Taking the RER into central Paris costs about as much as the Tube journey in London and takes about half the time. Faster options in London cost much
31 Joost: The do realize it. Long-distance train travel prices dropped significantly after the price war in air travel started. On routes that I travel sometim
32 YULWinterSkies: I'm surprised no one mentioned the LCY-CDG flights operated by AF (and others?). Especially convenient for the rich expats living in the City (and the
33 AsstChiefMark: The most I've ever paid for a Eurostar ticket is US$150 return. I buy online. Mark
34 YULWinterSkies: Yes, this is absolutely true in continental Europe, especially where TGV and Thalys operate. Germany does not look bad either. But it seems that, des
35 TUGMASTER: REASON: This is an aviation forum, therefore it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that most people here enjoy aircraft and the time spent in the air ,
36 BCAL: It is because of the UK Government's Transport Policy that Britain is having problems making trains efficient and reasonably priced. The Government b
37 LoungeLover: Well the LCY-CDG flight are probably interesting for a business crowd who works in the City or maybe lives somewhere near Greenwich. But for most trav
38 Arsenal@LHR: Eurostar from Waterloo to Paris Central is around 2 hours 40 minutes, by air this journey is cut down to 30 minutes. From where i live, i can get to P
39 Ctbarnes: Yet another scenario, which may or may not be relevent given the benefits between flying and the tunnel, namely connecting traffic. Say, for the sake
41 GaleaoCumbica: Hi, PLANE IS NICE. TRAIN IS BORING! Went to Paris 7 times and only once by train just because my mum wanted. I will go again by train only if price is
42 GAWZU: Read again and you'll see that Germuser was flying in Jan 02 when Buzz were still around and flying to CDG from STN.
43 Andz: I thought the thread title had something to do with masochist = wanting to go to France...
44 Cxsjr: Scenario 4: Don't go to Paris! If you do and you're a tourist, even if you are as polite as one can possibly be, chances are, you'll get ripped off bi
45 Incitatus: I flew it last week. I'm not a masochist. The French immigration officer wasn't half asleep but she hardly bothered checking my passport.
48 HKGKaiTak: Mmmmm. I have to disagree. A high-speed train like the TGV, Eurostar or ICE in full flight is just like you're on the runway waiting for rotate . . .
49 Brons2: You could use this example a lot of different places in Europe. I have a American friend who is working in Heidelberg, Germany. I decided to visit her
51 MAS777: I live on the South Coast and trust me since the LGW-CDG service was axed - families, friends and businesses have suffered by having to travel to LHR
52 Zonky: It's a train station! Take the train! If there is not direct train, on the south coast it's pretty much bound to be a one stop At Clapham.
53 N1120A: Yep, you caught me How? Why not just take one of 4 tube lines that go there? See you mention taking the tube to LHR and not to Waterloo The RER takes
54 Mozart: It all depends on *how* you travel on plane: if you are close to the Peripherique, go by cab to CDG, there are no traffic jams, you have an electronic
55 Rafabozzolla: Well, this is just the useless point many people often try to make in these forums. You top-managers-multi-frequent flyers, seem to forget that most
56 Tolosy: Having lived 5 years in London and being from paris, I have always travalled between the two cities. Both by plane and train. Travelling from central
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