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5 Engine 747!  
User currently offlineC172 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 47775 times:

While at LHR I witnessed a classic 747 with 5 engines. The extra engine was located near the port wing root. Can anyone clue me in?

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGlidepath73 From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 1020 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 47722 times:

This was a spare part engine for an other a/c. The 747 has a fifth pylon hardpoint to hang a fifth engine on the wing. (Just for transport reasons)

Regards,
Patrick



Aviation! That rocks...
User currently offlineFlyBeQ400 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 47718 times:

That is the method for shuttling extra (spare) engines for planes which need a replacement for maintenance reasons in a location without spares on site, as far as I know.

User currently offlineC172 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 47723 times:

This one was running, though. Exhaust and heat and everything.

User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 47719 times:

747 can transport a spare engine under its wing. If you search you will find some pictures.

Here is one.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/635769/M/

Like this it is much cheaper to transport it instead of sending via a cargoplane.


User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 47707 times:
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They were at one point testing the A380 using a 747, as its the closest thing around to the A380. Also sometimes they whack a 5th engine on the wing to ferry it around.





I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineCV747 From Iceland, joined Jan 2000, 170 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 47705 times:

It's a poded spare engine.
Boeing and Douglas have offered this option to transport spare engines for long time. I have pictures of 707, DC-8 and 747 with a poded spare engine.

It's rarely used but looks really cool.


User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 47681 times:
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http://www.airliners.net/open.file/240514


I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineFrancoBlanco From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 47679 times:

Sorry I have to say that, but the spare engine definitely cannot be running in this position.

Maybe you just confused the exhaust heat from the other engines or the APU.

Sebastian


User currently offlineJeb94 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 598 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 47541 times:

Um...hate to say it but no way could it be running. There aren't any fuel hookups for the podded engine afterall.

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 47504 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pod is only on classic B747s, no B744s have it

User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 47465 times:

You're wrong....


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Photo © Steve Ruttley



UAL


User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 47432 times:

Pardon my ignorance, but why couldn't you just put the 5th engine in the cargo hold...? Doesn't it produce a lot of extra drag while hanging from the wing?


AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9523 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 47431 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 11):
You're wrong....

Are you sure it's not a Classic ferrying an engine and a winglet for a 400?  Smile


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 47397 times:

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 12):
Pardon my ignorance, but why couldn't you just put the 5th engine in the cargo hold...? Doesn't it produce a lot of extra drag while hanging from the wing?

THe engine is essentially a straight through thing, the air jsut goes straight through it so the drag isnt as high as you might think.

Putting it into the cargo bay means you loose that cargo space for paying customers.


User currently offlineJeb94 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 598 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 47376 times:

That and the passenger carrying 747 doesn't have a door big enough to fit an engine of that size into it. They do suffer a drag penalty (the core and fan do create drag) but its cheaper than chartering a cargo aircraft that has a large enough door to fit the engine in.

User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 47350 times:

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 12):
Pardon my ignorance, but why couldn't you just put the 5th engine in the cargo hold...? Doesn't it produce a lot of extra drag while hanging from the wing?

Sure it does produce a lot of drag, but this procedure was established a long time ago taking the following points into consideration:

  • Usually the spare engine needed a some airport was attached to an a/c flying this route anyhow (i.e. carrying pax or similar) - so it was not sent onto an almost empty ferrying flight.
  • By the time the big engines for the likes of B747 / DC10 / L-1011 were introduced, reliability of these engines was considerably lower than nowadays. So it was much more likely that an a/c got stranded at some remote spot (w/o proper m/x) and that a spare engine had to be flown in.
  • Back then, dedicated cargo-a/c usually were not able to accomodate a spare engine for a B747 w/o some kind of dismanteling due to size restrictions. Therefore it was easier (and faster & cheaper) to put that engine to be transported under the wing.

Today, this procedure is used much less. Engines have become much more reliable; engine shops have been set up at more airports - and not every airline stops flying its B744 once one engines quits in flight, but continues its transatlantic crossing to LHR  Smile
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 47336 times:

Quoting Jeb94 (Reply 15):
That and the passenger carrying 747 doesn't have a door big enough to fit an engine of that size into it.

Ah, there's the answer! Thank you.  Smile



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 47321 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 11):

Thank you


User currently offlineAtco2b From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 1114 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 47305 times:

Can they be used on flights with pax?


Hey, you want to go out for pizza and some sex? What, you don't like pizza?
User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2249 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 47291 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pod is only on classic B747s, no B744s have it

Fifth pod is available on all 747 series, but only RR engines can be fifth podded, as far as I know.

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 12):
Pardon my ignorance, but why couldn't you just put the 5th engine in the cargo hold...? Doesn't it produce a lot of extra drag while hanging from the wing?

It won't fit through the door opening.

NZ1


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 47231 times:
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HEAD MODERATOR

SA ferrying a 5th engine from MIA on the 744.


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Photo © Don Boyd




Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 46883 times:


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Photo © Anthony Jackson
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Photo © Micheil Keegan



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Photo © Micheil Keegan
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Photo © Michael Hojbjerg



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Photo © Paul Spijkers
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Photo © Bill Sheridan


Engine Ferry.  bigthumbsup  Ideal way unless you have a B747F.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 46858 times:

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 20):
Fifth pod is available on all 747 series, but only RR engines can be fifth podded, as far as I know.

Not true. Air India has ferried JT9Ds as 5th pods multiple times that I am aware of, including on the ill-fated AI 182 in 1985.


User currently offlineAKelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2189 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 46456 times:

Quoting Atco2b (Reply 19):
Can they be used on flights with pax?

Yes


25 Lhrstu : Does anyone konow if the A380 will have the same capability?
26 WhiteHatter : I wouldn't think so, fifth podding is a practice which was developed in the 1960s and 70s when there was not as much civilian heavy lift capability a
27 AR1300 : Why??Could be only windmilling.Sure the fans will spin with all that air going thru them.... Mike
28 EBJ1248650 : This one was running, though. Exhaust and heat and everything. I suspect that the heat you saw was exhaust from the nearest running engine or set of e
29 Post contains images CitationJet : The 5 engine 747, not to be confused with the 3 engine 747.
30 Speedbirdegjj : UAL747 was referring to Reply 10 questioning whether this applied to -400's or only classics!!.
31 F14D4ever : Take a close look at the SA and Qantas engine ferry pix; they both have a toric insert to block flow into the core. Now look at the Aer Lingus ferry;
32 Drinkstrolley : What about the 747 where the nose lifts up to give access?
33 Joshdean : Well that's a freighter, but the discussion here is about fixing it to the wing so you don't have to pay a load of money to put it in a freighter...
34 Jeb94 : I never noticed the inserts before. That's cool! Keeps the air from flowing through and prevents windmilling. Windmilling an engine isn't the best thi
35 Post contains links and images Aak777 : Not only B747s, heres the good old Tristar with 4 engines. View Large View MediumPhoto © Christos Psarras
36 N766UA : Yeah that 5th engine definately wasn't running. You probably just saw it windmilling and noticed exhaust from the #2 engine.
37 AirxLiban : On 744s can the CF6 and PW4000 engines be podded as well as the RB211s?
38 Blue787 : Regretably an engine(PW4000,GECF6 or RB211) would not fit in the lower cargo hold as in a 744. unless it was a 74F in which case it will travel main
39 KAL_LM : Drinktrolley wrote: "What about the 747 where the nose lifts up to give access?" Even though we're not talking about freighters, just as an aside, th
40 Post contains images VH-MDK : From a QF Lame: "A Boeing 747 can have a 5th pod attatched if there are fittings on the wing. The only Engines that can be 5th podded are RB-211 all v
41 LPLAspotter : I flew a TP L1011-500 which was ferrying an engine as Aak777 pointed out. The flying time to BOS from TER was the typical 5 hours or so, so I don't th
42 HAWK21M : How much drag would the Ferried Engine cause. regds MEL
43 BWIA 772 : Can the 340 carry an extra engine.
44 JumpJet : I once saw a Saudi Arabian L1011 Tristar land at LHR with an extra engine slung by the port wing root. It looked really odd from directly in front as
45 Airforum : hmmm AFAIK they usually fly at lower speed when carrying an extra engine (compared to a regular flight)
46 Lucifer : You probably saw additional heat exhaust from the air conditioning packs, which are in the belly of the aircraft.
47 Post contains links and images Sincil : And the 707 also! Though it's placed in an aerodynamic pod: View Large View MediumPhoto © John Kelly
48 UpperDeck79 : Looks like a missile or something!
49 Post contains images Aak777 : I bet it can carry a dosen of them in the cargo bays. No offince airbus lovers. I love airbusses too.
50 Post contains images C172 : No offence Airbus lovers. I love Airbuses too. Just trying to bring this thread back to life.
51 Ncfc99 : Can a B747 carry an engine on both sides at once or does it have only one fixing point. I notice all the pictures have the extra engine on the same si
52 ZK-NBT : The 747 can only carry an extra engine on the Port side!
53 NZ1 : As far as I am aware, no you cannot 5th pod a CF6. We have always freighted them if the need has arisen. NZ1
54 Starlionblue : Yes. Not externally.
55 JpetekYXMD80 : WHY? Mission accomplished, questions answered. Threads die for a reason you know...
56 Post contains links AeroWeanie : This was possible (back in 2001) - GE's test bed, N747GE, was tested for a short while with a CF34-9 hung on a L shaped pylon mounted inboard of the
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