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United To Exit Bankruptcy  
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5339 times:

Today, United began the process for exiting bankruptcy protection by proposing a timeline that keeps the Company on track to emerge from Chapter 11 this fall. Under the proposed schedule, United intends to file its Plan of Reorganization and Disclosure Statement with the Bankruptcy Court on or about August 1, 2005. The schedule was outlined on Friday in a filing with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court overseeing United's Chapter 11 proceedings. United believes this timeline for exit is realistically achievable.

The company has requested that the Court schedule a hearing to approve the Disclosure Statement for early September 2005, and that the Court fix August 29, 2005 as the record date for determining those entitled to receive ballots and materials necessary for voting on the Plan of Reorganization, specified in the Bankruptcy Code.

[Edited 2005-07-01 16:40:54]

[Edited 2005-07-01 16:41:24]

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDrupyUSE From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5317 times:

This is interesting considering the rumors of an impending FA strike.

User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6785 posts, RR: 34
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5252 times:

I read this and the first thing I immediately thought of is that this is all PR window dressing...

They need to start moving in SOME direction to get out of bankruptcy or else they will have a competitive bid. That's what Tilton wants to avoid, so he's grandstanding.

They're no closer now than they were last year, and I doubt they'll be out by the fall as is predicted.


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5161 times:

I have serious reservations about them being able to pull this off before the end of this year. There are serious labor/management issues, fuel is still rising, and they are still losing money. How do you effectively exit bankruptcy when you are still losing money?


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineDCrawley From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 371 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5060 times:

Ah, "United To Exit Bankrupcy". How I have longed to hear those words. Wait, yes.. I swear I've heard them several times before from the same management team.  Wink In all honesty, I hope they survive. Yet IMHO, they have gotten enough extensions. It would be great to see them with a viable business plan, but at this point, I think they still have a ways to go..

Best of luck to UA employee's!

-D.K. Crawley



"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive."
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3802 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5005 times:

United exits bankruptcy as "planned" -- without requesting and being given yet another extension? About as likely as the FAs walking the walk rather than merely talking the talk about carrying out their rumored/threatened strike.

User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

So they are ready to order 20 A380s at christmas ?  banghead 

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineIFly4UAL From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4849 times:

United To Exit Bankruptcy--

Again?  zzz 



BGR--Vacation Spot for All the Flying Crazies
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4659 times:

Quoting A350 (Reply 6):
So they are ready to order 20 A380s at christmas ? banghead

... together with a giant 150-airplane order for the A350! You still believe in Santa Claus, don't you? He's dead and never brought airplanes as presents ... spin  wave 

Hohoho!

Santa Jan  santahat 


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4516 times:

Quoting IFly4UAL (Reply 7):
United To Exit Bankruptcy--

Again?

When have they previously been in bankruptcy? Backup for this statement would do womders!


Kahala777


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4517 times:

Quoting IFly4UAL (Reply 7):
United To Exit Bankruptcy--

Again?

When have they previously been in bankruptcy? Backup for this statement would do wonders!


Kahala777


User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4421 times:

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 8):
You still believe in Santa Claus, don't you? He's dead and never brought airplanes as presents ...

Really  confused  Santa Claus really doesn't exist  confused  confused  He never brought planes as presents  confused  confused  confused 

Under that circumstances I don't believe in the big A380 order anymore  biggrin 

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4345 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 10):
When have they previously been in bankruptcy?

They haven't. But I think the poster, and half of the responders to this thread mean that we've heard it all before about United exiting and presenting their business plan. Still has yet to happen. I personally doubt it ever will.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4271 times:

At this time a topic like this is as annoying as NW replacing their DC9s. As much as I want UA to exit bankruptcy so that my FF miles do not get wasted, I will only believe it when I see a statement from UA.


A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlineGilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4155 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
When have they previously been in bankruptcy? Backup for this statement would do womders!

Is there and echo here? I assume you don't understand the meaning of satire?


User currently offlineAirbus3801 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1089 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4051 times:

Quoting Slider (Reply 2):
I read this and the first thing I immediately thought of is that this is all PR window dressing...

They need to start moving in SOME direction to get out of bankruptcy or else they will have a competitive bid. That's what Tilton wants to avoid, so he's grandstanding.

They're no closer now than they were last year, and I doubt they'll be out by the fall as is predicted.

Looks like someones jolly  snooty . Sure, they have announced this before, but at least have some hope.


User currently offlinePhoenixX2 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3997 times:

Do they have new financing? What about their Retirement Program not getting funded? Will they have to liquidate some assets? Would these not be addressed prior to them exiting bk?

Rgds


User currently offlineTPASXM787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3804 times:

Heard all this crap before from bankrupt companies. Not ready to drink the UA kool-aid yet. I'll believe it 8/1 when I see their filing come across my RSS at work.


This is the Last Stop.
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8941 posts, RR: 40
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3777 times:

On the other hand... I wish them good luck and I hope they can pull it off.

PPVRA



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3250 times:

Well, from their timescale, we only have 60 days at the outmost to wait, although I have no idea how long the voting issue takes from August 29.

Aside from the pension and contract issues, I thought they were turning their attention to aircraft leases. No? Maybe they have already settled that?

I guess they already have the lenders lined up for exit financing. Be interesting to see the final outcome.


User currently offlineBaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2027 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3223 times:

This is my forecast for UALs bankruptcy:
Aug 1: They submit their reorganization plan
Aug 3: Creditor committee turns it down (because it is the same plan from 2003)
Aug 5: Judge is forced by creditor committee to open UAL up to other organizations to bid on UAL.

UAL has neither the brainpower nor the financing lined up to exit bankruptcy.
Furthermore, if you have a look at the trend of their performance (look at their passenger numbers), they are still continuing to decline, as well as their yield. The only way they are eeking out better performance is because they are cutting their capacity. They cannot do that forever.

Bottom line, they have not done anything to make themselves over into a carrier that will attract the business traveler back, they have destroyed any credibility with the employee groups and they plan to exit bankruptcy protection going into the worst two quarters of the year?

This just doesn't meet the "viability" test.

My reorganization plan for UAL will be posted for view on August 1.
By then, hopefully, I will have someone to back it, or meld it in with another entity. If not, then it will have been an excellent exercise for my next job.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3191 times:

Baw-We went through, a couple of days ago, the hub schedules, and came up with this: EVERY SINGLE UNITED HUB, WITH THE CURRENT SCHEDULES, SEES EVERY SINGLE AIRCRAFT TYPE!!! Shouldn't any reorganization plan United comes up with start right there, with fleet simplification per station?


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineBaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2027 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2363 times:

SHU Pirate:
That is one approach...albeit the traditional one. Again, to solve the problem, you have to get out of the box.

You don't look at aircraft type. You look at the profitability of the hub. You breakdown the traffic at the hub, where it comes from, where it goes through, percentage local vs. through, then you determine each routes costs and unit revenue and determine if the mix of revenue local v. thru is a correct mix to make the flight profitable. If not, sometimes, by changing the mix, that will fix the problem. Sometimes, the route cannot be saved and you are better served allocating that aircraft somewhere else. In other words, it is not as simple as it looks. Also, and this is a big one, UA will have to go to two aircraft types domestically. It can't make it with one...but it could make it with two. I have the two in mind (but I am holding them in my vest).

Looking at it from the outside, I do not have access to those numbers, I can work it only based on what information I can gather from public access to records, therefore, I have to work it a different way. Its still the same methodology, but in a macro sense, not broken down so much by hub.

I also have products to introduce that will cost money and rolling them out will call for reallocation of funds: closing some non performing routes, selling off aircraft, etc. One thing is very clear: I WILL NOT TAKE ONE MORE DIME THAN HAS ALREADY BEEN TAKEN FROM THE EMPLOYEE GROUPS AND IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, I WILL FIND A WAY TO RESTORE A LITTLE OF WHAT WAS TAKEN AWAY, ONCE THE COMPANY IS PROFITABLE.

That is what I'm thinking.

Hope that answers your question.
baw716.



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 22):
That is one approach...albeit the traditional one.

Dave, you're leaving out the small issue that United hasn't done anything even remotely close to the sort. They've taken and taken and taken from their employees, but they haven't cut anywhere else. If you are privvy to the numbers, have United's operational unit costs, less labor and fuel, gone down at all since they entered bankruptcy? For some reason, I would be very surprised to find out that they have.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
When have they previously been in bankruptcy? Backup for this statement would do womders!

Yeah, how many times have we heard it - early '03, middle '03 . . . if they're serious, then cool for them. Otherwise, show us you have the right stuff before you shoot from the hip some PR horse manure that you're planning to exit BK.

-R


25 Baw716 : Britt, I sent you a message.... Your last point just reinforces what I am saying. All these guys are doing is cutting costs by taking it from the empl
26 FriendlySkies : BAW, I think it's great that you're trying to help, but I have a few questions. First, how exactly do you know what UA has done? I know we can all ass
27 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: WLS-TV http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/070105_ns_air_travel.html
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