Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Any Chance Of Seeing CO In VIE?  
User currently offlineDiesel33 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 302 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4893 times:

Just wondering with their massive International/European expansion if anyone thinks CO may be planning services to VIE for spring/summer '06? I think it would be a good move... I think OS is the only airline flying between the two countries. Surely there is room for CO using a 757.

Does a 757 w/ winglets have the range for that route?

Diesel33

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4877 times:

Quoting Diesel33 (Thread starter):
Just wondering with their massive International/European expansion if anyone thinks CO may be planning services to VIE for spring/summer '06? I think it would be a good move... I think OS is the only airline flying between the two countries. Surely there is room for CO using a 757.

I really really doubt it although it would be cool! I say this because CO flies to several very nearby airports that are partners of OS and offer connections between the two airports. If it happens it will be good news.

It's not like we see American carriers here in VIE if I am not mistaken.

VIE-EWR is 3696 nm. You do the maths  Wink



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

CO is studying many additional destinations in Europe - I have not heard anything specific about Vienna, but you never know. I think that the EWR-VIE flight would be just outside of the 752 operating limits even with the winglets.

User currently offlineVORFMD From Austria, joined Feb 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4753 times:

Quoting Diesel33 (Thread starter):
Surely there is room for CO using a 757.

definitely

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 1):
It's not like we see American carriers here in VIE if I am not mistaken.

you are not mistaken, we have not ONE American Carrier here - a sad thing
for an Airport with 16 Mio PAX this year. Is really no American Carrier interested in VIE ? Is it because of the Fees or the Yield or both ?


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21526 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4754 times:

757 can't do it. Can't do Munich, either.

Would require a 762, but not enough of them in the fleet, so unless VIE offers more cargo and premium pax (25 vs. 16) than other routes that A) now have a 762 and B) could be switched to a 752, I don't see it.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4715 times:

Wouldn't it be more likely to see a Star Alliance partner in VIE? Maybe if UA or US are in better shape again they could use VIE as a connection to some European destinations, code-sharing with OS ofcourse. So, who knows, there will be future flights coming in Vienna from ORD, IAD or PHL....


There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineFlyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4670 times:

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 5):

Isn't United on it's way to it's grave? US Airways... maybe. But I haven't heard any mention of them going to VIE. BTW you can also see things differently. They might perhaps opt not to fly to VIE since US Airways flies to neighbouring airports of Star Alliance partners with good connections to VIE.



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4647 times:

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 6):
Isn't United on it's way to it's grave?

RUMORS

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 6):
US Airways... maybe

RUMORS


FYI - OS/UA are looking to reinstate ORD-VIE service. Originally the route operated via CPH on the A310.


Kahala777


User currently offlineINNflight From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 3766 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4629 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 7):
FYI - OS/UA are looking to reinstate ORD-VIE service. Originally the route operated via CPH on the A310.

Perfectly correct!

Just to add my 2 cents... I do not think there really is huge demand for any US Airline to get into VIE, simply because the Star Alliance network is too extensive. There are tons of daily connection flights to FRA, MUC, CPH,... All of them are Star Alliance hubs and already having US airlines serving them.



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 36
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4620 times:

Quoting VORFMD (Reply 3):
Is it because of the Fees

I don't know the reason but it can't be the fees. Zurich is not cheaper than Vienna but has four US airlines (UA, AA, DL, CO; all with 767-200/300)


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4618 times:

Is there any non-stop service between VIE and the US?

Also, maybe WAW would work. Or would that be too far for a 757?


User currently offlineINNflight From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 3766 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4608 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 10):
any non-stop service between VIE and the US?


VIE to JFK, ORD and IAD, all operated by OS.

[Edited 2005-07-02 16:07:31]


Jet Visuals
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4621 times:

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 6):
US Airways... maybe. But I haven't heard any mention of them going to VIE.

US was going to fly to VIE (and BHX) this summer, but changed their mind at the last minute when BCN and VCE offered big marketing incentives.

Now, though, US's widebody fleet is maxed out, so if they want to add another destination, somebody will have to lose service--by no means impossible, but not all that likely.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently onlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26484 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4605 times:

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 1):
VIE-EWR is 3696 nm. You do the maths

The math has been done. The 752W can fly the route

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
I think that the EWR-VIE flight would be just outside of the 752 operating limits even with the winglets.

No it wouldn't. As it is, there is a 204 nm cushion on still air without winglets. The additional range granted by the winglets would make the route quite possible

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
757 can't do it. Can't do Munich, either.

Again, yet it can. In fact, PRG has long been studied as a 752W destination and is within the aircraft's range quite easily and is shorter than EWR-MUC



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCgnnrw From Germany, joined May 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4543 times:

Before CO starts flying into VIE they should reconsider serving DUS again. They would have a virtual monoply on the NYC/EWR route. AA stopped serving years ago, UA in mid-2003. LH still serves EWR but that is their Biz Class only flight operated by Privatair. If they started VIE service they would be competing against OS and its ability to feed passengers to the JFK flight. Also, I belive the catchment area of DUS is much bigger than VIE. The Rhein/Ruhr area is in desperate need of a non-stop service to the US.


A330 man.
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4381 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4532 times:

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 14):
LH still serves EWR but that is their Biz Class only flight operated by Privatair.

...which means that the premium traffic on EWR-DUS is already spoken for, meaning CO won't be back anytime soon.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4527 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 12):
US was going to fly to VIE (and BHX) this summer, but changed their mind at the last minute when BCN and VCE offered big marketing incentives.

BHX, offers low yield traffic. BCN, VCE were excellent high yield, high demand seasonal choices. VIE, is more of a high yield, mid market demand. VIE, is huge for business travel. Just not from North America. Vienna, is one of the most incredible cities in Europe. The prices dictate so. VCE to VIE is not a long trek by any means!

Kahala777


User currently offlineFlyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
The 752W can fly the route

Well that's cool. Now all we need to know is if CO want's to and if VIE want's them.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 12):
US was going to fly to VIE (and BHX) this summer, but changed their mind at the last minute when BCN and VCE offered big marketing incentives.

Now, though, US's widebody fleet is maxed out, so if they want to add another destination, somebody will have to lose service--by no means impossible, but not all that likely.

That sucks, it would have been good to see an American Star Partner in VIE. Maybe as you have suggested when they loose some other routes, or in the next round of decision-making when it comes to their route network.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 7):
Isn't United on it's way to it's grave?
RUMORS

I was just asking... chill!

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 14):
If they started VIE service they would be competing against OS and its ability to feed passengers to the JFK flight

True! But the OS operated JFK flights are quite full so there's room for more  thumbsup 

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 14):
Also, I belive the catchment area of DUS is much bigger than VIE.

This is the strength of DUS over VIE. DUS is situated in an area with several large settlements in a radius of say... 1 hour or so. For VIE, that is not the case. But when you make that comparison, don't forget to also look at how many services are already being operated to the New York airports from the DUS area, and how many are being operated from the VIE area. That would make more sense since then you have an idea of how many additional services you can really add.

Regards,
Moe  Smile



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlineINNflight From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 3766 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4493 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 16):
VIE, is huge for business travel. Just not from North America. Vienna, is one of the most incredible cities in Europe.

...not to forget mentioning the biggest gateway airport to Eastern Europe!



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21526 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4484 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
No it wouldn't. As it is, there is a 204 nm cushion on still air without winglets. The additional range granted by the winglets would make the route quite possible

Not enough cushion Westbound with full revenue load, winglets or not. And CO is not flying any routes that require winglets, as all their current routes can be flown with winglet or non-winglet planes.

Maybe in the future when the majority of their fleet is wingleted, that will change.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineCgnnrw From Germany, joined May 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 15):
...which means that the premium traffic on EWR-DUS is already spoken for, meaning CO won't be back anytime soon.

however, the LH/Privatair route is on a A319 (not positive) so there aren't that many seats available on a daily basis, I think 48 (not sure either). So there may be some overflow still available and from what I have read here CO's business-first product is quite good. Also, the Privatair service isn't daily due to maintenance factors.

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 17):
don't forget to also look at how many services are already being operated to the New York airports from the DUS area,

there really is only the LH/Privatair service, which is not daily. LTU started serving JFK in June but that may only be seasonal and I believe also on 6x weekly.

I honestly think if CO did some extensive marketing in NRW they would see their planes quite full from DUS. They need to really plug their biggest plus which is EWR as gateway to their entire US system.

So if any CO executives happen to read this thread you have a big fan just waiting to be contacted.......  Wink



A330 man.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4458 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):

No it wouldn't. As it is, there is a 204 nm cushion on still air without winglets. The additional range granted by the winglets would make the route quite possible

You probably are more of an expert than I am at matter such as this.....but isnt a 204 nm cushion very tight for a transatlantic route, especially during the northern winter when winds can be difficult for the westbound journey? CO does push its aircraft close to their limits for many routes, but wouldnt this be using an aircraft at or beyond its absolute range limit? Especially going into EWR, where traffic and sometimes weather can be an issue.

How many nm of range do the winglets acutally add? I have heard about 300 nm, is this correct? I also heard that the winglets improve the performance a bit more than expected, is this true?


----------

Regarding DUS, sorry guys, but CO is not going back anytime in the near future. The flight worked when CO had a major contract that kept the BF cabin filled on 767-sized aircraft, when that contract was not renewed, the flight became a money losing proposition. I do not live far from DUS, and while there is a big and rather affluent population base in the area, the fact is that most in the area use the LH train connection from DUS and CGN to pick up longhaul flights out of FRA, also, with the the LH/Privatair business class flight operating DUS-EWR, CO would have one difficult time trying to sell its J class seats......CO would probably keep the flight reasonably filled, but the yeilds would be wrong and CO can better allocate its resources.


User currently offlineCgnnrw From Germany, joined May 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4442 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 21):
Regarding DUS, sorry guys, but CO is not going back anytime in the near future.

@Dutchjet--you like destroying a person's dreams don't you......
 cheeky 



A330 man.
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4381 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4437 times:

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 20):
however, the LH/Privatair route is on a A319 (not positive) so there aren't that many seats available on a daily basis, I think 48 (not sure either).

...which likely covers most if not all of the daily nonstop Business Class demand between the cities.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4448 times:

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 22):

@Dutchjet--you like destroying a person's dreams don't you......

Sorry!!!!!!! I too would love to see CO back in DUS.

Until then, I am on CO 60/61 in and out of BRU countlesss times per year. Cheers.


25 MAH4546 : Austrian ended O'Hare (and Miami) in October 2001.
26 Drdivo : I have heard specifically that VIE will be announced in the winter for summer 2006 deployment with 75M aircraft.
27 Dutchjet : Then we must be talking to different people! I heard a bunch of European cities being considered for 2006 out of EWR, and, honestly, VIE was not one
28 Post contains images Kahala777 : Rotterdam is in the list! Kahala777
29 FlyAUA : Range of a B752 is 3900nm, and EWR-VIE (assuming a straight direct line which is not the case) is 3696nm, so it is indeed tight, yes. But still withi
30 Dutchjet : Not the list that I heard - no Rotterdam, no Vienna......the list that I was told did include Moscow (762), Prague, Barcelona, Lyon, Copenhagen, Hels
31 Diesel33 : Thats pretty interesting....that would mean CO would serve all 4 Scandinavian capitals! Wow! Diesel33
32 Kahala777 : Funny, everyine has been told a different list! These Continental Airlines lists are become a hot item! The List I have heard of: Barcelona : 752 Base
33 Dutchjet : Yes, all four capitals are being studied, nothing is yet definite. The fact that Oslo was a success, and it seems that ARN is doing well, helps the c
34 Kahala777 : Continental serving all 4 capitals would certainly insure, a prime business choice! Kahala777
35 Dutchjet : I guess it depends on who you know and who you speak with - lets see, we agree on Barcelona, Basel will happen only if CO gets a certain contract fro
36 Dutchjet : I forgot LUX - honestly, there really is not a market. LUX is very small, the surrounding area is not well populated, and the city, even with all thos
37 OSA330 : Regardless a B757 would make the distance, would that aircraft be comfortable enough for longhaul flights? We all know that single-aisle planes don't
38 Dutchjet : Oh no, the 757 is uncomfortable accross the Atlantic arguement once again - some a.netters have a problem with the 757 on longer-haul, most passenger
39 OSA330 : I agree, but consider, that the average European doesn't fly longhaul quite often. I guess that longhaul passengers basically have more experience wi
40 Avek00 : ...and CO is not catering to them, but rather the business travelers who DO fly frequently and will pay a premium for the privilege of flying nonstop
41 Post contains images FlyAUA : CO to LUX You are right, LUX is very small and an American passenger airline would never fly here. We can't even get the European airlines to fly her
42 Diesel33 : All those cities seem pretty unrealistic except Basel, Nice, and Rotterdam but I really don't think any of these cities will join the CO route map in
43 MHG : At least BSL (or EAP or MLH... which is all the same airport) would get a good start! I know about serious guaranteed DAILY!!! purchase of at least 30
44 N77014 : And ZRH has high yield business and diplomatic traffic year round, especially from IAD and NYC. Can VIE offer that? Icelandair, after 30 years, gave
45 Ikramerica : What about Munich? With CO expanding German language service, you'd think EWR-MUN would be a good option with a 752 with Winglets.
46 Dutchjet : As you probably know, CO did serve MUN in the late 1980s and early 1990s - it was one of their first transatlantic routes and was flown with a DC10-3
47 Klwright69 : Dutchjet, just one correction on your timeline. CO didn't serve MUC at all in the 80's. FRA came on board the CO system right before MUC did in the ea
48 Dutchjet : Thanks for the correction, I think you are correct about the dates. regards.......
49 VORFMD : Well, there is definitely a big demand on nonstop Flights from VIE to the USA. I had a nice talk with a friend working for a Travel Agency and she sai
50 Cgnnrw : I can't comment on any of the proposed routes except for Turin. The 2006 Winter Olympics will be hosted by Turin so if CO starts serving Turin it may
51 N77014 : LAX-MUC: 1 daily flight. LAX-MXP: Gone. LAX-ZRH: Gone. With this record, I predict no new service from VIE to LAX. While the NYC area already has OS
52 Ikramerica : But CO can't do the route until they have enough 752s with winglets that they can be sure certain routes always have them. Right now that isn't the ca
53 N77014 : At one time, CO ran DC-10's and B777's to MXP. Since then, only the B762 seems to able to support the route. In theory, VIE should support J-class tr
54 ZRH : I strongly disagree. I always prefer to change planes than to have a narrow-body on long-haul in economy. You have probably the same seat pitch and w
55 Timberwolf24 : I do not know about DFW-VIE, However The summer of 1990 they were going to add ORD-VIE along with ORD-BUD/HEL/WAW and SVO. From what I remember the r
56 LXsaab2000 : Are there any possibilities to see new CO flights to Italy for the next year? Is CO for example interested to start a Venice-Newark flight? (DL , and
57 Post contains images N1120A : ZRH is one of the highest yield destinations in the world It is not all that hard to dedicate a 75M to the route, especially if they start PRG or wan
58 Xlpants : They are known as 75E's. My friend at CO says he has no idea what a 75m is. TXL better have winglets westbound or it will have weight restrictions!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Any Chance Of A Jumpseat Ride In Brazil? posted Fri Mar 31 2006 18:19:51 by Shane
Any Chance Of Seeing CRJ-700 At Cos? posted Mon Aug 20 2001 21:50:40 by BA
Virgin: Premium Economy: Any Chance Of Getting In? posted Sat Oct 14 2000 15:09:39 by A student
Any Chance Of A GLA - AUH Service With Etihad? posted Tue Nov 7 2006 15:22:07 by 8herveg
Any Chance Of IND-SAN Non-stop? posted Wed Oct 25 2006 07:19:04 by ConjureMe
Any Chance Of KLM And BA To Order B777-300ER? posted Tue Oct 24 2006 23:52:46 by AirCanada014
Any Chance Of A 777 On Alitalia IAD-Milan posted Sun Jul 23 2006 04:24:41 by BG777300ER
Any Chance Of 3-class Seating Coming Back On DL? posted Sun Mar 12 2006 06:29:12 by DL4EVR
Any Chance Of AC YYZ-Ft McMurray? posted Fri Sep 2 2005 02:41:40 by Cayman
Any Chance For Airtran Expansion In CLT? posted Tue Aug 23 2005 17:51:31 by Quickmover