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What Is The Secret Of EK Success?  
User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5360 times:

As a frequent and global traveller I noticed that almost all the important airports have a growing number of EK aircrafts coming and going. The enthousiastic purchasing policy, with ofcourse a huge amount of A380 coming, underlines their confidence in the future. Apart from having a great service and beautiful fleet, what is the reason for the success? Do they have better open skies agreements or more slots?


There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCatatonic From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5344 times:

Quoting Glareskin (Thread starter):
Do they have better open skies agreements or more slots?

Perhaps being a carrier in a land where oil is plentiful would help?



Equally Cursed and Blessed.
User currently offlineEK156 From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5337 times:

Quoting Catatonic (Reply 1):
Perhaps being a carrier in a land where oil is plentiful would help?

Dubai does NOT have any Oil as alot of you think!! They depend greatly on trade and tourism!!! So guess again please...


User currently offlineCatatonic From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5319 times:

Quoting EK156 (Reply 2):
Dubai does NOT have any Oil as alot of you think!! They depend greatly on trade and tourism!!! So guess again please...

Maybe not, but it is part of the UAE which is oil rich!



Equally Cursed and Blessed.
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5308 times:

Quoting Catatonic (Reply 1):
Perhaps being a carrier in a land where oil is plentiful would help?

Wrong guess.

Quoting Catatonic (Reply 3):
Maybe not, but it is part of the UAE which is oil rich!

Yeah, it's part of the UAE, so it must be full of oil...why care about facts when once can draw fast conclusions...  Yeah sure


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineJorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3149 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5298 times:

Maybe they offer lot good routes for fair fares. EK is also intended to take place in the master plan to develop Dubai to a tourism and trading area when the ran out of fuel. So, many people stopover in Dubai on the way from A to B without paying much more.

Georg.

P.S.: Oil/money was helpful in their history too.


User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5288 times:

Better than average service quality, slightly lower than average fares, and a 24 hour connecting hub in a geographically well positioned point.

Geoff M.


User currently offlineEK156 From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5276 times:

Quoting Catatonic (Reply 3):
Maybe not, but it is part of the UAE which is oil rich!

Even though it is part of the UAE, Dubai still operates as an independant entity. So they do not get or rely on the Oil or Gas Resources of the other states nor would the other state give it to them for FREE??!!!!

So even though Dubai is part of the UAE, all the expenses incurred by Dubai are paid by Dubai... so the Oil in the UAE "DOES NOT" pay for EK's bills nor does pay any of Dubai's Bills. It depends greatly on Free and Open Trade and Tourism. Not on Oil. So the Oil factor is null here!!

Maybe it helped setup Dubai, but Dubai never had massive Oil resources like other states. Their leaders were very smart to realize this and turn it into what it is today without depending on Oil... I SALUTE THEM!!!


User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2893 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5266 times:

I hear they utilize their DXB hub in one of the most efficient manners and have a connecting time on most trunk routes of less than 2-3 hrs.

Does anyone have a link to their Hub operations and facilities at DXB. It would be of great help to me. PLEASE.


User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5263 times:

Please, let's stop the oil discussion. Even if that was a start-up help for EK, money is not the reason for their success. Obviously they have a very strong business model. Good service, modern fleet with the best aircraft of each segment, competitive prices and the best looking flight attendants (female!) I've ever seen. But they seem to do better than others who have a similar model. My question was if they have other advantages like more slots or better open skies agreements between Dubai and other countries.


There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineCatatonic From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5230 times:

Quoting Udo (Reply 4):
Yeah, it's part of the UAE, so it must be full of oil...why care about facts when once can draw fast conclusions...



Quoting EK156 (Reply 7):
Even though it is part of the UAE, Dubai still operates as an independant entity. So they do not get or rely on the Oil or Gas Resources of the other states nor would the other state give it to them for FREE??!!!!

So your saying that EK has NEVER benefited from oil in the UAE in ANY way that could set them apart from other airlines such as those in the west at ANY time?



Equally Cursed and Blessed.
User currently offlineCatatonic From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5222 times:

Quoting Udo (Reply 4):
...why care about facts when once can draw fast conclusions...

Oh and by the way Udo, I merely said it was HELPFUL! Perhaps it is not just me that is drawing the fastest conclusions!



Equally Cursed and Blessed.
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5207 times:

Quoting Catatonic (Reply 11):
Oh and by the way Udo, I merely said it was HELPFUL! Perhaps it is not just me that is drawing the fastest conclusions!

Your comment suggested oil to be the answer to the initial question about EK's success, completely ignoring all other more important aspects.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5172 times:

Do they have 3-4-3 economy seating on some of their B777s? perhaps by packing them in is a secret to their success?

User currently offlineGLAGAZ From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2004, 1983 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5156 times:

They operate a long haul fleet only  Smile I think I'm right in saying long haul generates quite a lot of money compared to short haul.

1) You charge passengers more
2) You only land once or twice a day
3) You don't need to pay ground crews to work on your aircraft (fuel/baggage) constantly

I guess there are many reasons, but I think thats definately one  Smile

Gaz



Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5161 times:

Quoting Richardw (Reply 13):
Do they have 3-4-3 economy seating on some of their B777s? perhaps by packing them in is a secret to their success?

They have 3-4-3 on all B777s, but that doesn't explain their success. They operated many years without B777s and today only 25 aircraft out of a fleet of 71 are B777s.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7428 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5141 times:

EK is nothing but another "prestigious toy" of the bored local powerful Emirs.

Success is quite easy when you have :

- Endless financial backing from the Governement
- Monopoly in the management and operations of your homebase (DXB)
- No taxes, no landing fees at your base
- Ridiculous "symbolic" fuel price (nobody can decently believe that EK is paying 60$ the barril of fuel !)
- a "certain" opacity in your accountantcy, results, figures, etc...
- no real competitors in your "natural" market (the Gulf) except Gulf Air that was almost bankrupt and really badly managed.

But this situation should change very soon with EK's rivals like Etihad or Qatar airways arriving on the same market : now EK will have to fight with competitors using the same doubtful arms...and EK's developpement should slow down significantly or, at least, shouldn' be as spectacular as it was until now.


User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5064 times:

Easy:

Almost limitless money pouring from the Government and Emirs. Remember that Dubai, or the UAE, is desperatly trying to be a huge tourism attraction, hence why the government sends unlimited cash to ensure huge traffic to the capital.

No matter what people say about fuel, EK has very good "deals" on fuel...

Low cost base at DXB


User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5073 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 16):
EK is nothing but another "prestigious toy" of the bored local powerful Emirs.

Very well said!!!!!

By the way: Maybe it is just rumor, but Etihad as the "Official Carrier of the UAE" is demanding some routes from EK, incl NRT as only national carriers are allowed in Tokyo and also slots to/from London.

Anyway, EK is not bad, will get competion by Ethiad and Qatar Airways, which is not bad either,but there is not much left for expanding to new destinations.


User currently offlineCatatonic From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 16):
(nobody can decently believe that EK is paying 60$ the barril of fuel !)

My sentiments exactly!!



Equally Cursed and Blessed.
User currently offlineCatatonic From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5055 times:

Udo and Ek156, you are still yet to answer my question in reply 10.....


Equally Cursed and Blessed.
User currently offlineShawnnyc From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5027 times:

I think the reasons are:

1) Financial support from the government (there is very little visability in EK's finances).

2) EK effectively exploits under served or highly restrictive markets like UK-OZ, Inida, etc. They are literally in the middle of a lot of these types of markets. Now with so many countries liberalizing bilaterals, it will be interesting to see if EK holds onto the pax it got.

3) Dubai was able to sign very open bilaterals because they needed to protect very little natural travel to Dubai. So with liberal bilaterals, EK was able to build a great hub which has multiple flights into many major cities (thus having low connecting times).


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4417 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5024 times:

1. Based in a market effectively restricted by a combination of regulatory and operational issues.

2. Ultra-low labor costs due to expansion of labor supply via importation.

3. "Bulk buying" approach maintains lower unit costs.

4. DXB hub well-positioned for connectivity with many parts of the world.

That said, Emirates will come under increasing attack as points #1, #2, and #4 become less applicable or relevant.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6965 posts, RR: 76
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4766 times:

Their success...
1. A very strong business model (the politically correct answer...)
2. A strong financial backing (plus "good accounting policy")
3. Good market support (effective control over the air industry assets/infrastructure of Dubai).
4. Modify #1 to maximise the use of #2 and #3.

Just like Qatar Airways' mission... "to beat EK at all cost"... you need #1-#4.

Just any of those components will not be enough.

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25690 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4735 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Emirates is not the only airline getting benefits from Dubai's position in the world:

http://www.ameinfo.com/63489.html

And I would guess - stress "guess" - that Sri Lankan is not getting any special deal on UAE oil.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 Glareskin : So Dubai as a hub plays a big role in their succes?
26 EK156 : EK is NOT a toy for rich Emirs..cause if it was then we can say Virgin is a toy for Richard Branson... and maybe one day Bill Gates will start his ow
27 Zweed : dude, relax. you will give yourself a heart attack
28 7LBAC111 : How can you possibly know this to state it so categorically? 7LBAC111
29 EK156 : Hehehehehe...ur post was the best in this whole thread!!! lol
30 JRadier : Last time I checked most airlines have to pay taxes, so this is definately a government advantage for EK. Allthough the government doesn't 'give' EK
31 7LBAC111 : Good point and one thatis always overlooked (or conveniently forgotten!?) 7LBAC111
32 EK156 : The whole system in Dubai works on Zero Direct Tax. There is no Income or any sort of Direct Company Taxes. This applies to all companies in Dubai, n
33 BHXFAOTIPYYC : OK, try not to kill each other people!!! I forget the name of who was tasked with building EK from the ground up, but I know he wasn't given unlimited
34 PlaneSmart : Given the above, I have no idea why they fund their business with bank loans, and lease aircraft. As for tax, rest easy, there are plenty of airlines
35 Trolley Dolley : The secret to the EK success is good business strategy. Firstly the DXB hub is the first in the world that can reach any major city non stop with curr
36 Jacobin777 : Good service and a good overall experience at a decent fare!![Edited 2005-07-04 07:28:31]
37 AR1300 : Why the hell would you go to Dubai for Tourism?? To see the Rich??Go to Beverly Hills. To See a desert??Go to Egypt To see the sea?? Go to Tahiti To
38 EKGOLD : Superb response...... The usual monthly EK bash.... and the same ill informed responses about oil, financial reports, endless financing, Sheikh's (No
39 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Dubai intends to function as a Singapore/Hong Kong-style entity for the Persian (Arabian?) Gulf? Don't they have competition for that role? I believe
40 Post contains images Jacobin777 : then don't go..your not the voice for 4+ billion people... and some of your comments are about as ignorant and inane as they come!
41 AR1300 : So please explain.I posted my point of view.I would like to know why wolud anyone else go, as to me there is nothing to do.But if there is, and I don'
42 LHSTR : Maybe it is better to compare Emirates, how it was 10 years ago, with the ones like Qatar Airways and Etihad. Personally, I have no idea, how one can
43 EKGOLD : got it in one, "your ignorance"... DO some research and then ask yourself the question again. Look at GDP growth, tourism growth and tourism industry
44 AR1300 : Easy,Tiger.Got you. Didn't know all that.For us down here Dubai is an exotic far, far,far away place unherd of, as in the middle of the desert. Again,
45 EKGOLD : puuuuurrrrrrrrrrr as is Argentina to me....
46 Post contains images AR1300 : So I officially invite you to see and tour our wonderfull(and very cheap) country. Mike
47 Post contains images EKGOLD : Sounds great.... As soon as EK fly direct.....
48 Post contains images AR1300 : The govt actually had some talks with Dubai for this.But If I remember correctly, they were to make a stopover in S.Africa.So we'll have to wait Mike
49 Beauing : To change planes? What does reacious mean?
50 CRJ900 : I remember their "huge" order for 16 A330-200s plus options on a further 7 back in the mid/late-1990s, and everyone was amazed at such a big order, a
51 AR1300 : Read the last part of that post. Quoting myself: It means to refuse something for an x reason. Mike
52 Karan69 : Simple, because you get all the above mentioned things at one place and for much better service and price.
53 EurostarVA : I would suggest you go back to English 101..... Did you mean racist? If they were racist they wouldn't have allowed themselves to become a 10% minori
54 AR1300 : nope.There is an actual word. seems like we could go together... Mike
55 Post contains images Babybus : Having very deep pockets and being a very convenient and exotic hub between Europe and the Far East and Australia is all it needs. You can't lose!
56 EurostarVA : According to your Argentinean version of English? There is no such word, period.
57 Toxtethogrady : "Apart from having a great service and beautiful fleet, what is the reason for the success?" Deep, deep pockets, and cheap fuel. What's happening in D
58 Dtwclipper : So tell me, how welcome are Jews on EK and in DXB?
59 LHSTR : So tell me, how welcome are muslims on LY and TLV? Sorry, couldn't resist.
60 Post contains images AirbusfanYYZ : Thanks for that LHSTR, took the words right outta my mouth! What relevance is that comment to this discussion anyway? Cheers, Kaz
61 Glareskin : Well said Airbusfan YYZ! When I started this thread I really wanted to know about how EK became as successfull as they are......
62 Post contains links Mariner : Well said? If Emirates wants to be a success in New York, I would have thought the issue of Jews and the airline is extrmemely relevant. They have al
63 Atmx2000 : Given that Israel has Muslim citizens, I would imagine that they are welcome.
64 Abrelosojos : This is funny. 2 quick confirmations - 1 - Lot of route developments by EK - both initial years and even now (DXB-EWR) were done based not on commerci
65 Post contains links Beauing : There was an article about this and it was discussed on a.net. They are successful because of: low labor costs (no legacy costs; operate like an lcc)
66 AirbusfanYYZ : If you truly think EK is actively targetting the Jewish population in NYC then you would be wrong, end of discussion. LY has multiple frequencies to
67 Mariner : No, I don't. But I don't think you can serve NYC and actively ignore the Jewish population IF you want to be more than a one nation/one culture carri
68 Atmx2000 : Do you think that Jews only fly to Israel? As Jews represent a sizeable fraction of the population of the NYC area, and overall New York state popula
69 Atmx2000 : Actually, irregardless of whether Jews have clout, an airline could expect to lose a travel account of a company that feels that some of its employee
70 Jacobin777 : that's true...but I think it would be in the best intrest to serve "kosher" meals, though many believe that "zabiha/halaal" meals pass as "kosher"..b
71 AirbusfanYYZ : The comment by Mariner was re: EK and NYC. Last I checked EK flies JFK-DXB nonstop, I don't understand how that will be of any benefit to Jews travel
72 FlyinTLow : I think their success is based on extremly successful marketing tactics. Same goes for Etihad. EK: they are the official sponsor and airline of the 20
73 Post contains images AirbusfanYYZ : No such word in the English language. Cheers, Kaz
74 Mariner : Do you not read what I actually write, or do you justt make it up? (i) I did not say that Emirates is a one nation/one culture airline. I think they
75 Post contains images Cessnapimp : Irregardless: Antithesis of regardless. Used when someone wants to approve of you and all you have to say. Word fam.: Irregardlessness, Irregardfulles
76 Bicoastal : Answer: Lots of private capital to fund better service. EK owners could care less if they make a profit. They've got huge egos. If United or other tro
77 UAL747 : Sorry, Emirates is just something I don't understand. There has to be some sort of government funding, tax breaks, et al., in order for this airline t
78 AirbusfanYYZ : If the lack of a type of meal is the determining factor in a corporate account being lost/cancelled then that's a pity. If you had read my comment I
79 Mariner : Okay. But it looks to me like you saw bashing where there was none. At least, none by me. mariner
80 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : kind of strange...but EY is the correct code for Etihad.. maybe you should get your facts straight before calling somebody "fool".. for your informat
81 EK156 : It looks like you read only one post of mine and then decided to attack!!! hahahahahaa... Please go do your homework before you embarres yourself!! U
82 Post contains links and images EKGOLD : another ill informed, uneducated post about oil in the UAE... Success for all airlines will depend on labour and fuel as their key cost drivers. No o
83 AlanUK : There, you have it summed up in one sentence. Similar could be said about Virgin, although Branson's pockets aren't quite as deep as Emirs and LHR is
84 EKGOLD : Source??
85 Glareskin : Sorry Mariner, but since I started this thread I know what is relevant... Even if you are right about EK having an issue with Jews (btw: personally I
86 Post contains images EK156 : Have you been reading any of the previous posts????
87 EK156 : Just for you info people, alot of Jews carry different kind of passports like US, or European and technically all of them enter Dubai without a singl
88 AlanUK : Erm... Something tells me that when an airline grows at the speed of EK, and place orders for a silly number of aircraft (especially A380s)... That a
89 EK156 : This was your GOLDEN POST???? First of all, Dubai is NOT trying desperatly to be a huge tourism attraction cause it ALREADY IS!!! The Government of D
90 AlanUK : Wow. What can I say. This will be my last post on this subject. EK156. I'm going to tell you what you want to hear: The reason there is so much Emirat
91 HAWK21M : Having the Right people in the Right places helps. regds MEL
92 EKGOLD : C'mon mate, what experience do you have with rapidly expanding businesses that would allow you to make such a ridiculous statement?? There is no cred
93 BCAL : I have to confess that until recently I was an EK basher, and loved to rise to any occasion when you could slang down the airline. I also thought that
94 Beauing : Don't ask, don't tell?
95 Mariner : Sometimes threads run away from their starters. This one did. We now know that it is indavisable to travel on Emirates if you have an Israeli passpor
96 Glareskin : It sure is. Just thought it was a little off-topic, that's all. Thank's anyway! regards, Glareskin
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