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CO Pulls Out Of ISP  
User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1136 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5375 times:

CO to discontinue ISP route

CO will discontinue its operations in Islip, N.Y. (ISP), effective Sept. 6, 2005. XJT employees at ISP have been offered other opportunities within that organization or a severance package based on their years of employment.



Stange the CLE-ISP route had good loads.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2665 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5341 times:

Isn't that the second time they've pulled out of ISP?? If I remember correctly, they use to do ISP-EWR in the ATR back in the 90's.


I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6435 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5337 times:

Quoting Nkops (Reply 1):
Isn't that the second time they've pulled out of ISP?? If I remember correctly, they use to do ISP-EWR in the ATR back in the 90's.

That is correct. I think they had a double-pull from HVN also.



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2665 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5320 times:

And of course from ACY also.... wonder if they've ever pulled out of somewhere three times???


I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5296 times:

Quoting Nkops (Reply 3):
wonder if they've ever pulled out of somewhere three times?

Maybe Dallas/Fort Worth.



Delete this User
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

I assume CommutAir is staying in ISP with the ALB/BOS flights?


I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2665 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5169 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 5):
I assume CommutAir is staying in ISP with the ALB/BOS flights?

I think alot of it depends on who is doing the ground handling in ISP. When CO left ACY (for the second time), Commutair also left because they had no one to ground handle them anymore. Then again, CO only gave the airport 3 days notice!!  Angry



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineJoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 731 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4736 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Thread starter):



Quoting CLE757 (Thread starter):
Stange the CLE-ISP route had good loads.

Discontinuing service with good loads is consistent with CO operations at CLE.


User currently offlineGothamSpotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

Source?

-
-
-
-


User currently offlineAKelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2192 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4543 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Thread starter):
Stange the CLE-ISP route had good loads.



Quoting Joeman (Reply 7):
Discontinuing service with good loads is consistent with CO operations at CLE.

We all know by now that loads have nothing to do anything, it's all about yield.

If the flight is full, but everybody is on a $29 ticket, the flight isn't making money.


User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4498 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
Quoting Nkops (Reply 3):
wonder if they've ever pulled out of somewhere three times?

Maybe Dallas/Fort Worth.

To my knowledge, CO has never pulled out of DFW.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4488 times:

Quoting Ssides (Reply 10):
To my knowledge, CO has never pulled out of DFW.

You have to go way back, to the 1980's.

I am looking at the Continental Timetable from March 1982.
No Dallas/Ft Worth.
At the time, DFW was still a relatively new airport, Airlines were staking their "new" turf...Braniff, Delta, American were all in the middle of a fierce competitive struggle.

This is what Continental had in the State of Texas at the time.
AUS-ELP/IAH/SAT
ELP-ABQ/AUS/SJD/DEN/LAS/LAX/ZLO/MAF/PHX/PVR/SAT/TUS
IAH-AUS/BOS/CUN/CZM/DEN/LAX/MIA/MAF/MSY/EWR/LGA/PHX/SAT/SAN/SFO/TPA/IAD
LBB-DEN/MAF
MAF-ELP/IAH/LBB

Some other interesting cities Continental Served at the time as part of their VERY limited Route Network:
Green Bay Wisconsin
Pensacola Florida
Peoria Illinois
Lincoln Nebraska



Delete this User
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5434 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4446 times:

The lowest advance purchase fare was $148 + tax or about 18.6 cents per mile. So with, let us say, half the fares higher and an average CO load, it should have been a profitable route.

Maybe not profitable enough.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

Quoting AKelley728 (Reply 9):
We all know by now that loads have nothing to do anything, it's all about yield.

If the flight is full, but everybody is on a $29 ticket, the flight isn't making money.

They'll definitely never leave ABE then  Wink with full ERJ's and no round trips less than $350... most $400 on up.


User currently offlineWayfarer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4432 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Thread starter):
CO to discontinue ISP route

CO will discontinue its operations in Islip, N.Y. (ISP), effective Sept. 6, 2005.

It could be that CO is strapped for passengers @ ISP? Southwest might expand at ISP as a result?

Most recent ISP-located photo of WN


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John E. Jauchler



User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4393 times:

Keep in mind that while the CLE flight may have had high fares, I'd bet that the vast majority of these people are connecting in CLE. CO does have to compete with Southwest, Delta, Northwest and US Airways for connecting passengers. This does two things...it will lower the average fare, and it will spread the fare out over more miles. For example, say ISP-LAX is $350 (just a wild guess, but I'm assuming WN as the price-setter in this market)...through CLE, that fare covers 5022 miles, or 6.97 cents per mile, which is below CO's average yield. Thus, the fare loses money.

Jeff


User currently offlineLuvfa From United States of America, joined May 2005, 446 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4294 times:

Southwest plans to double their gates at ISP. When the new terminal opened we went from 3 to 4 gates. The old terminal has since been knocked down and we will use the space to expand the new terminal from 4 to 8 gates. I essence, WN should double our existing schedule out of ISP in the coming years.

User currently offlineD950 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 493 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

I work across the street from ISP, what terminal was taken down??


Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4163 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 15):
CO does have to compete with Southwest, Delta, Northwest and US Airways for connecting passengers.

Northwest does not serve Islip-MacArthur.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4128 times:

ISP is a small station for CO, and the ERJs that flew the route can probably be more effectively and more used elsewhere.......it most likely has to do with yeilds and fares being generated on the ISP routes; first, most pax on the ISP-CLE routes were probably connecting pax going on to other destinations and yeilds can diminish with connecting passengers,sometimes lower fares than if nonstop travel was booked and 4 segments instead of 2 for a simple roundtrip, I do not think that O&D between ISP and CLE was supporting these flights; second, its Southwest effect, as Southwest grows at ISP and offers more and more nonstop and connection possibilities to more cities within the US out of ISP, fares on many routes will drop, making the CO service not practical or profitable.

User currently offlineAvpilot01 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4099 times:

Quoting Nkops (Reply 3):
wonder if they've ever pulled out of somewhere three times???



Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
Maybe Dallas/Fort Worth

No, CO has never pulled out of DFW. Not starting service yet and pulling out are two separate things. I used to live in Dallas and the loads on CO have always been good. Since Delta has pulled out of DFW, they have been even better. Between DFW-IAH, DFW-EWR, DFW-CLE and DAL-IAH, they pretty much have the Dallas-Ft.Worth area covered.


User currently offlineAvpilot01 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4078 times:

Think about this one though.....

-WN pulls out of IAH.
-CO pulls out of ISP and HOU, where WN is dominate at both.

Coincidence???? There was something said a long time ago that WN and CO had a pretty good relationship. I can't remember the situation but CO in some words helped WN out. In exchange in the past WN did not lower fares on routes it competed with CO that it did with other majors like AA, DL and UA. I wonder if they worked out some kind of agreement. Like you get out of my territory and I will get out of yours. What do you think?


User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4057 times:

There might be some truth to that, WN has pulled out of some markets on CLE too.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4049 times:

Quoting D950 (Reply 17):
I work across the street from ISP, what terminal was taken down??

Just the area next to the WN area I think. That area isn't used so I guess that will be it.
Will they just extend upon the new terminal they built, like a hallway after you come up the stairs and next to the little Bar there? Either that or they extend the stairs over and have more stairs caises and the restaurant area will be the center of the terminal with the stairs leading up to it.
Just my guess. Are their any renderings of what it will look like.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 
PS- Post# 555



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineD950 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 493 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4020 times:

I went over there about an hour ago, nothing aesthetically will be done to the original terminal structure, but the east part of the building will undergo changes to accommodate the extra gates I was told.


Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
25 TOLtommy : As most here know.... Good loads down always mean profits. CO pulled COEX service out of CAK twice. They even had CO van service from Akron-Fulton, a
26 Luvfa : The old Ground Level Terminals, (Gates 12-18) were just torn down. They will be built as an extension to the new Peter McGowan Terminal.
27 Post contains images Dragon-wings : So many airlines reduced service or left Islip altogether. Spirit: left American Airlines: went from mainline to RJ service to no service. US Airwaiys
28 Post contains links Stirling : Yes. Continental DID Leave DFW in the Early 80's. They returned in the late 80's around the time of the peoplExpress acquisition. FACT. Continental d
29 IslipWN : NOOOO!!! This is the second airline within one year! Hopfully US Airways Express won't pull out of ISP too. There is going to be a lot more check-in c
30 MasseyBrown : According to Q3 2004 O&D data, CLE-ISP is 83 pax daily. That should fill about 50% of CO's four daily E135s, assuming CO got about 90% of the traffic.
31 DfwRevolution : >> Think about this one though..... -WN pulls out of IAH. -CO pulls out of ISP and HOU, where WN is dominate at both. Coincidence???? IMO: yes WN's I
32 N200WN : No way. Anyone remember this exchange: Crandall: "Raise your goddamn fares twenty percent. I'll raise mine the next morning. You'll make more money a
33 Lat41 : Don't know if they did much marketing or promotion at ISP but across the Sound at PVD, they are very low profile. Very little advertising or banging t
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