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American Airlines Digs Deep To Save Fuel  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3143 posts, RR: 10
Posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11721 times:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo...22%2D484F%2D8859%2DE2DC8221BBD6%7D

86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWorkbench From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11701 times:

The title should read... "Stick a fork in American, they are done!"
With the upcomming repeal of the Wright, and oil set to top $70 a barrell, they cannot avoid a CH11 filing.


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2264 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11605 times:

Saving on fuel is a good idea. That being said, AA pilots are starting to give us (ATC) a bit of "back talk" and "alternate suggestions" when we vector for spacing. Seems in AA's world of planning they seem to forget there are other users in the picture as well. Spacing, we use turns to get it, then speeds to keep it, or sometimes a combination. They can be a pain and use up radio time which we don't always have a lot of.

"AAxxx turn right heading 140 for spacing" "AAxxx roger can we slow down instead?" Not until I have you in the slot without screwing the entire world behind you.

"AAxxx increase to .78 mach for spacing" "AAxxx roger that's gonna put us tight on fuel, can we slow instead?" Slow instead? Great. What about the 29 other aircraft in trail of him/her overtaking him/her. Some have just adjusted their speeds without telling us, next thing you know there is another aircraft overtaking them by 90 knots and Conflict Alert starts flashing.

We (ATC and Crew) need more off air direct dialog. Unfortunatly FAA and TSA don't think that's important anymore.

Rant ends now.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11555 times:

AA is doing what we all are doing; nothing really new....

Some fuel costs from the ATL paper today...

$$SOURCE: Atlanta-Journal Constitution and BACK Aviation Solutions 7/3/05:

AIRLINE FUEL COST PER AV. SEAT MILE

JBLU 1.52
LUV 1.64
CAL 1.72
US AIR 1.75
UAL 1.78
AWA 1.81
ALK 1.86
AAI 1.88
FRONTIER 1.88
DAL 1.89
AMR 1.98
NWAC 2.17


User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3836 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11516 times:

I've always wondered: Why can't the pushback go all the way to the runway? Wouldn't that save a bunch of gallons?


All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineTrident2e From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11514 times:

I remember that Air Europe pilots (of the defunct British carrier) used to test the patience of ATC just as described above. ATC's solution was to ask the Captain to declare a fuel emergency if he/she couldn't comply with instructions - apparently this put a stop to the practice.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11972 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11462 times:

Quoting Workbench (Reply 1):
The title should read... "Stick a fork in American, they are done!" With the upcomming repeal of the Wright, and oil set to top $70 a barrell, they cannot avoid a CH11 filing.

I'll dispense with my usual replies to your laughable comments, but to tell you this -- you really, seriously, need to get a clue.


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3766 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11409 times:

Quoting Workbench (Reply 1):
The title should read... "Stick a fork in American, they are done!"
With the upcomming repeal of the Wright, and oil set to top $70 a barrell, they cannot avoid a CH11 filing.

Oil will not be topping $70 anytime soon.



PHX based
User currently offlineJumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11363 times:

On a side note, anothe way of cost saving is what Song does. By having only 199 available seats for purchase on there 757-200 fleet, they need one less flight attendant on board compared to a 200 seat config on the same plane.

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11332 times:

Or have some of those International guys and gals get back to the weight when they were hired and that right there would be a fuel savings.......


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineWayfarer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11308 times:

Ouch ... fuel price is skyrocketing! AA is seriously in trouble and they are working on it... not overnight problem solving issue.

User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5309 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11218 times:

Workbench:

AA is by no stretch of the imagination done. First, it has $3.5 billion ($3,500,000,000) in cash.

Second, repeal of the Wright Amendment is by no means assured. It must get through the House, and that means having the support of Tom DeLay, the majority leader. If he is opposed to repeal, then it won't happen. It also has to get through the Senate, and if both Senators from Texas are against repeal, it won't get done.

Remember, the Senate could not pass a bill authorizing the expansion of ORD, because Sen. Fitzgerald, the waterboy for the whining surburbanites around ORD, held up the bill.

And does anyone know how the President feels about repeal of the W.A.? If I remember correctly, W. flew to Washington on an AA 737 to meet with Bill Clinton after he was officially made the winner of the 2000 election. AA management has contributed a lot to W.'s campaigns. My guess is that if the bill to repeal the W.A. is sent to the White House, there will be some big-time lobbying by AA.

Last, there are a lot of oil traders who think the bubble is about to burst on oil, and that it will fall to $40 a barrel by December. There are even some who think it could go as low as $35.


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11213 times:

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 12):
Last, there are a lot of oil traders who think the bubble is about to burst on oil, and that it will fall to $40 a barrel by December. There are even some who think it could go as low as $35.

the same ones who said oil would never reach $60?

Been here before....


User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1845 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11184 times:

Quoting Workbench (Reply 1):
With the upcomming repeal of the Wright, and oil set to top $70 a barrell, they cannot avoid a CH11 filing.

Would that get you off or something? You seem to troll the forums looking for oppurtunities to bash AA and other legacy carriers. What gives?

As others have mentioned AA has enough in the bank, as well as smart people working for them to see through these time of increasing prices of oil.



Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11152 times:

The cash on hand thing isnt as good as I once thought. My fav, NWA has 2.1 billion dollars on hand BUT apx just over half is borrowed. This is also true with DL, UAL, HP, and AA. The problem with borrowed $$$ is that is has to be paid back....with interest.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5615 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11038 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
Quoting Workbench (Reply 1):
The title should read... "Stick a fork in American, they are done!" With the upcomming repeal of the Wright, and oil set to top $70 a barrell, they cannot avoid a CH11 filing.

I'll dispense with my usual replies to your laughable comments, but to tell you this -- you really, seriously, need to get a clue.

Commavia and I agree here- while I think Wright is, in the long term, dead, there is no way AA fails. Nor should they.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11972 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11005 times:

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 12):
Second, repeal of the Wright Amendment is by no means assured.

This is absolutely right. While (pretty much) everyone here on A.net is basically referring to Wright in the past tense and already planning its funeral, the reality is that, IMO, its repeal right now has about as much chance of passing as of not passing. It's about 50/50. Sure, all the aviation buffs here want it repealed, but the people who actually matter -- the Cities of Dallas and Fort Worth, and the Texas Congressional delegation, are almost universally mum on the prospect of repeal, largely because they are waiting to see the response from their constituents. Understandably, the Fort Worth Congressman are viciously opposed to repeal, while the Dallas ones want it, and the City of Fort Worth obviously opposes repeal. While it is absolutely a possibility that Wright will be repealed, it is also a very real possibility that it doesn't. We'll all just have to wait and see.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 12):
W. flew to Washington on an AA 737 to meet with Bill Clinton after he was officially made the winner of the 2000 election. AA management has contributed a lot to W.'s campaigns. My guess is that if the bill to repeal the W.A. is sent to the White House, there will be some big-time lobbying by AA.

While W. did fly to DC back in 2000 from AUS on an AA 738, most of his political ties were to AA's former leadership, namely Carter, who was a big Bush doner. While AA historically has been closer to Republican presidents, and while AA does have a fairly good lobbying history with this administration, I do think that if a bill with Wright's repeal in it -- whether as the main bill or as a rider -- landed on Bush's desk, he would sign it. As for AA's lobbying, it is already happening and its aimed much more at the Congressman and Senators who will actually vote on the bill rather than the President who will just sign it.


User currently offlineN801NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 744 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10990 times:

Last year UA had the pilots drop from 524mph to 516 on the Ted flights as they were coming in a couple of minutes early anyway. Thus they burnt less fuel and still arrived on time. (In theory anyway.)

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10991 times:

CO has $2 billion on hand. Not sure how much of that is borrowed.

Then again, unless an airline is without debt, isn't all cash on hand "borrowed" to some degree?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineJonathan L From United States of America, joined May 2001, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10932 times:

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 12):
Last, there are a lot of oil traders who think the bubble is about to burst on oil, and that it will fall to $40 a barrel by December. There are even some who think it could go as low as $35.

That's the most nonsensical thing I've read lately. No "bubble" is going to burst because demand for oil is still very high even at these record prices. If everybody is already accustomed to paying this much for it, why are the oil companies going to suddenly get all softhearted and offer it for a fair price again? It's not going to happen, especially given the USA's current foreign, economic, and energy policies.


User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10760 times:

Quoting Jonathan L (Reply 20):
Quoting Ckfred (Reply 12):
Last, there are a lot of oil traders who think the bubble is about to burst on oil, and that it will fall to $40 a barrel by December. There are even some who think it could go as low as $35.

That's the most nonsensical thing I've read lately. No "bubble" is going to burst because demand for oil is still very high even at these record prices. If everybody is already accustomed to paying this much for it, why are the oil companies going to suddenly get all softhearted and offer it for a fair price again? It's not going to happen, especially given the USA's current foreign, economic, and energy policies.

Ckfred actually makes a very vaild point. If you remember early last month, gas prices had receded in most parts of the country about 15-20 cents a gallon. The reason was because speculators in the market were selling and thus not running up the prices anymore. Now prices are back up for two reasons: A. Election in Iran -even though we don't buy a drop of oil from them and B. Situation with Chavez in Venezuela where we do buy a decent amount of oil. Analysts with most media networks all agree oil could drop to around $35-40 because capacity is out handling consumption.


User currently offlineVivek0072 From India, joined Jun 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10729 times:

American Airlines Digs Deep To Save Fuel or shoud I say American Airlines Digs Deep To Search for Fuel.... Big grin


That life's most failures were people who did not realise how close they were to success when they gave up. - Edison.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10714 times:

It all depends on the heat this August and if there is an early cold spell this fall in the Northern Hemisphere, since energy use is driven by the northern hemisphere.

So far the temps in SoCal have been lower than the last few years, but if things change, local energy prices could rise on demand, and of course it's all related.

Also, the value of the dollar makes a difference, too, and the dollar has been rising a bit (as the US economy is slowing). With the price of oil related to the dollar, and the dollar losing a lot of value in the last few years, that helps boost the price of oil, if not the REAL cost of oil.

Anyone have a chart that shows the price of oil over the last 3 years in EUROs rather than dollars?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineCjpark From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1266 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10677 times:

WN is supposedly hedged until 2009. That is according to its financial statements.

Because WN has so aggressively purchased fuel deliveries it has given itself a highly competitive position enabling it to keep ticket prices down. However WN boon has been the fuel distributors folly. I wonder how WN and the other airlines will be able to hedge against fuel prices when the market is so volatile. I wonder how many distributors will be bankrupt before the WN contracts run out.



"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
User currently offlineSkyexramper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10454 times:

YX has come up with some helpful guidelines for the pilots to use to help save fuel. For example, taxing to and from the runway with only one engine if possible. Also minimizing the use of the APU and keep their cruize speeds down a little instead of the typical max cruize. Saves on gas but only adds on a few more mins.

25 Post contains images AR1300 : yeah, but it will take longer for planes to get there, thus making the schedules longer.Plus, Pushback trucks don't run on air.... Mike
26 Flying-Tiger : Refinery capacity is currently the problem, not oil field capacity. Most refineries are running at 98-99% capacity, barely any space left. If you've o
27 Ikramerica : Oil price does not depend on refineries. Fuel price does. China and India will build more refineries as they need them. It's Europe and the US that ar
28 Commavia : So true. There is years worth of oil sitting up in Alaska but the U.S. can't get to it because environmentalists have everyone convinced (fooled) tha
29 Post contains images Milemaster : Haha.. You really do believe what you say. You probably don't even know what CH 11 is since you're referring to AA as "Done" as CH11 wouldn't be an i
30 N160LH : I thought it was 2006 not 2009....? Can anyone confirm when WN current fuel hedge runs out? N160LH
31 OPNLguy : 2009
32 Post contains images Alb2atl : Years worth? I don't think so. The fields in Alaska have already peaked!
33 MD11dude : I have to laugh...the push- back I drive burns more than a JT8D-16...lol I remember reading somewhere about NWA's 744's bieng towed to the runway at K
34 Commavia : Not to get off topic, but no they haven't. The Prudhoe Bay fields, which have been feeding the Alaskan Pipeline for 30 years, are indeed nearing the
35 Chowder : Relates to no metal against metal...saving more bucks than AA can afford at this time. Good work SPREE, we appreciate what you all are doing. "Squawk
36 DeltaGuy : Because the soles on my boots won't last that long if I have to wingwalk the beast. Doing a pushback is no faster than a brisk walking pace, if that.
37 Lfutia : would shutting down an engine after landing save money? i presume it would? Airlines can transfer fuel between tanks to even it out but I know KLM shu
38 Post contains images N276AASTT : I was wondering if AA has considered eliminating the "Powerback Reverse" from normal operations. These jets can use up a lot of fuel on the manuevers.
39 Post contains images Glideslope : Unless you can control World Events, this statement is simply conjecture.
40 AA 777 : N276AASTT, I think all the power backs have been cut out systemwide - DFW (like in those pictures u posted) for sure. And again more crap from workben
41 Jumbojet : Delta leads the industry in innovativenss. They put a few less cases of soda on board and are installing lighter seats to save on fuel. Savings can ru
42 Ckfred : AA 777: AA has quit doing powerbacks at ATL. In fact, to save fuel, DL is towing its trans-Atlantic departures from the gate to near the hold-short po
43 Jaxs170 : I can assure you, towing the planes (especially the larger ones) saves a significant amount of fuel. Talking to people I know who are military pilots
44 Jdaniel001 : I agree. Even though I think AA management generally sucks, they have done a great job manageing the airline through the challeges of the past few ye
45 Commavia : What do you have against Crandall? He is one of the most brilliant people -- if not the single most brilliant person -- to ever rule this industry. H
46 RogerThat : I believe the Goldman Sachs report to which CkFred refers opines that oil must reach this price before consumers will alter their fuel consumption ha
47 777STL : It's called research. Why don't you tell me why you think oil WILL top $70/barrel by the end of the summer and I'll tell you why it won't. Remember,
48 LMP737 : The airliners.net expert on airline operations/finance speaks!
49 Post contains images 1MillionFlyer : Milemaster summed it up best. LOL I bet Workbench has that tupperware #3 cut as well.
50 Jdaniel001 : Sorry RogerThat, I should have said sucked. Yes they are healthy, but they don't play well in the sandbox. They are getting better though. Gee I don'
51 LMP737 : A somewhat contradictory statement. You say that AA management "sucks" but then you state they "have done a great job manageing the airline". So whic
52 Jdaniel001 : Sorry....RogerThat already caught my mistake. I take it you work for AA. I think the Arpey is a whole lot better than Crandell and Carty. Don't you a
53 Commavia : I think our current ATC problems have a lot more to do with the horrible ineptitude and bureaucracy of the FAA, an almost complete lack of investment
54 Adam1115 : Even better, how much would they save if they pulled off ot he taxiway, rolled a latter out to the plane and made everyone walk..?
55 LMP737 : Yes I do and I take it you work for UAL. If that's the case let me point something out. I have noticed an almost irrational animosity coming from UAL
56 Jdaniel001 : The reason I said that is that I have noticed a change in everyone's attitudes. Employee's that is. Of course my father-in-law still complains after
57 LMP737 : That's like blaming Ford for the traffic problems LA has. If you want to lay blame as to the problems with ATC point the finger at the FAA. There the
58 LMP737 : After the Air Cal merger Bob Crandall swore off mergers with other airliens. It was more trouble that it was worth. As for the Reno and TWA mergers t
59 Jdaniel001 : Ok...but AA lead the industry by increasing frequency for convienence. The problem was that every other airline did the same to stay competative. I do
60 Commavia : No doubt about it. The CEO sets the tone, and Crandall's tone was one of constant determination and breathing down employees' necks. It was a much ha
61 Ckfred : A friend of mine is a pilot with AA, having flown with the airline for over 15 years. Crandall was not one to see how to get along well with labor, bu
62 Commavia : This is exactly right. Crandall was tough, he was brash, but he was brilliant. I will always vividly remember back in April of 2003 when everything w
63 Post contains images AA767400 : Crandall was a SOB, but at least we knew were he was coming from. Crandall once said that if he could replace the Flight Attendants with a soda machin
64 Post contains images MQrampBOS : Maybe AA should put in a bid for Unocal
65 Jumbojet : It's the same old story of 'not in my backyard'. We face the same hurdles when it comes to building prisons, bridges, transportation systems. Who the
66 1MillionFlyer : They will have to buy hedges at that time on the open market at whatever price someone else is willing to sell them for.
67 Commavia : One key point, though: nobody -- and no thing, for that matter -- lives were people want to drill for oil up in Alaska. The oil reserves on a coastal
68 Cjpark : I grew up in West Texas. Oil and Gas production all over the place. As kids we enjoyed it when a new well was drilled because we could use the pad for
69 Aa757first : I think they also lead the industry in losses Aren't beverages and food stored in the carts during take-off? A) What is wrong with Crandall creating
70 Jdaniel001 : I don't think that you heard what I was saying. If airline A has 4 flights a day and airline B has 1 flight a day, but is 75% cheaper than airline A.
71 Jcavinato : Back to the prime thread point: In the past week I've been on two diverts and one yesterday morning that almost did it. All three were weather related
72 Post contains images OPNLguy : The higher cost of fuel does present some interesting challenges. I had a flight recently that had been released by someone else with no alternate an
73 1MillionFlyer : the 747 was the first plane credited with lowering CASM enough to allow "anyone" to fly. However, the explosion of traffic today is a function of the
74 Ckfred : Jacavinato: My in-laws flew to ORD from ATL in May. Because of weather, Indianapolis Center was not taking northbound traffic. ATC suggested flying ov
75 Post contains images OPNLguy : The re-route is via STL and the 349 radial off STL to MAGOO before turning northeast and common when normal routes via IIU are impacted. The re-route
76 LMP737 : Actually what I said was that there seemed to be some animosity coming from UAL supporters and employees on the airliners.net forums towards AA. I re
77 Jdaniel001 : LMP737 - that's for understanding. I do have a lot of respect for AA under the new management. I think that they are sitting in a real sweet spot. And
78 Commavia : No way. AA already removed F from its international 763 fleet. The 777s will definitely retain a 3-class F/J/Y configuration. The cities AA flies the
79 Jdaniel001 : This must be what they are talking about. And you really don't need 3 classes to be competitative Commavia. It's nice. I love flying Interantional Fi
80 Commavia : While I respect your opinion, I completely disagree. In a few markets, LHR and NRT being the two most important examples -- and LHR most specifically
81 Jdaniel001 : Commavia-good points. But VS flies out of LHR with 2 classes. Does Japan and ANA have 3 classes? Anyway, UA has a lot of upgrades from Business to Fir
82 Commavia : While that's true on paper, I often laugh when people say, "VS only has Business, Premium Economy, and Coach." From my experience, having flown in VS
83 Post contains links and images Rhuertas70 : When it comes to saving gallons of fuel on pushback here is a suggestion: View Large View MediumPhoto © Andy Vanderheyden Getting more serious.
84 Jdaniel001 : Thanks for proving my point. Somewhat.
85 Jdaniel001 : One more thing Comavia-if VS's Business is better than most airlines' FC, does that include AA?
86 LMP737 : As Commavia has pointed out AA has no plans to go to a two class configuration on their 777's. However next year they plan on putting in new lie flat
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