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Air France And Delta Negociate With GOL  
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4924 times:

AF and DL are negociating with GOL an agreement to take their pax from GIG to other cities in Brazil. Skyteam has been losing ground in Brazil to Star Alliance, because of Varig's dominance in the brazilian market.

Anyone knows what kind of agreement this will be? codeshare? could this mean GOL joining skyteam in the long term?


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Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis

Source (SPANISH)
http://www.globovision.com/news.php?nid=3723

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMarkATL From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 540 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4905 times:

Except for maybe ATL, CDG, SEL and perhaps PRG....Where is Sky Team not loosing ground?


"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4907 times:
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Luis,
The information i have is that Gol will allow a code share into their flights to SSA, VIX, CGH, CNF, BSB, REC, CPQ, POA and CWB. A friend of mine last saturday said to me (we both are waiting for confirmation on this issue) that 2 aircrafts will be added to GIG network increasing its daily operations from 34 up to 50 as some routes will be changed (it could turns Gol as the biggest domestic operator on GIG even bigger than RG and almost 2 times bigger than JJ). With these planes, Gol could add non stop service to CWB and improve POA and other cities services.
In fact the dominance of Star in Brazil is relative as nowadays RG (25%) is ranked 3 on domestic routes, just after Tam (41%) and Gol (27%). The main factor is that RG operations on GRU are 3 to 4 times bigger than JJ and Gol does not offer so much option there (only 8 daily flights).
Both Air France and Delta confirms this negotiation. Gol source told me that in the future, Continental can join this agreement too.
Concerning to Gol join SkyTeam, could be a reallity as in 3 to 5 years Gol will be in a position of a strong South America Player. Add international service to Europe and US could be a secondary strategy but one day will be the only markets available to be explored. With a strong position on Brazil and South America Gol could take an important advantage in the future.

A previous topic has discussed this matter a few weeks ago.

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4901 times:

Hopefully this will mean that GOL is required to have a route map when they start cooperating with AF/DL  Silly .

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 1):
Except for maybe ATL, CDG, SEL and perhaps PRG....Where is Sky Team not loosing ground?

You gotta be kidding me.
NW at MEM/MSP/DTW, CO at IAH/CLE/EWR, KLM at AMS, soon Copa(PTY), Tarom (OTP), Air Europa (MAD,BCN,PMI) and Kenya (NBO). Yeah, Skyteam is definitely losing ground everywhere.


User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2491 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4864 times:

Except for maybe ATL, CDG, SEL and perhaps PRG....Where is Sky Team not loosing ground?


guess you have never heard of AMS before... its a hub for 2 big Skyteam airlines, KLM and NWA... and lots of AF, CSA, Delta, Co in here...


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4599 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Same info has been given today by freench newspaper La Tribune. And with the todays press release from Gol stating they will start a new company on Mexico, could be a strong addition to SkyTeam alliance.

Hope GIG could be the Sky hub on South America.

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3602 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4548 times:

I would expect that if GOL was invited to join Skyteam (which I hope happens) they would be invited as an associate member and would adopt the FF program of one of the other members (Flying Blue?). I understand that they do not have a FF program of their own, and the adoption of the ST sponser's FF program is a requirement of associate member status.

I would also doubt that and GOL affiliate airline based in Mexico would be invited to join ST since AM is already a full (founding?) member.


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4532 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
Hopefully this will mean that GOL is required to have a route map when they start cooperating with AF/DL .

You stole the words out of my mouth.



Delete this User
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4494 times:
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Quoting Stirling (Reply 7):
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
Hopefully this will mean that GOL is required to have a route map when they start cooperating with AF/DL .

You stole the words out of my mouth.

i've made a route map for Gol. Hope they can produce something even better and add to their website:

http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/airlines/Latin_America/slides/Gol.html

Our friend KEno has added to its site.


Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4496 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 2):
Luis,
The information i have is that Gol will allow a code share into their flights to SSA, VIX, CGH, CNF, BSB, REC, CPQ, POA and CWB. A friend of mine last saturday said to me (we both are waiting for confirmation on this issue) that 2 aircrafts will be added to GIG network increasing its daily operations from 34 up to 50 as some routes will be changed (it could turns Gol as the biggest domestic operator on GIG even bigger than RG and almost 2 times bigger than JJ). With these planes, Gol could add non stop service to CWB and improve POA and other cities services.

Thanks for the info Felipe, now I have a clearer picture of what's happening. By the way do you know the status of GOL's expansion to CCS?


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
i've made a route map for Gol. Hope they can produce something even better and add to their website:

http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/airl....html

Hey, great route map there, very helpful. Didn't even remotely know that GOL had that many non-GRU/GIG routes.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
And with the todays press release from Gol stating they will start a new company on Mexico, could be a strong addition to SkyTeam alliance.

Although, setting up an LCC to compete with a Skyteam carrier doesn't sound like a favorable move  Wink .


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4438 times:

Interesting ! How's that going to work from a technical viewpoint - Gol is hosted on Navitaire, I didn't think Navitaire could cope with codeshare, as normally LCC's don't codeshare. I could be wrong, however.

With or without codeshare, it means interlined baggage and through check-in - more things that LCC's don't normally do. Should be good for a laugh  Smile


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4338 times:
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Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 9):
Thanks for the info Felipe, now I have a clearer picture of what's happening. By the way do you know the status of GOL's expansion to CCS?

Luis, nowadays there is no such plan (flying to CCS). GOL will announce new international plans on january 2006, let's wait for them. Probably they will consolidate south routes (Montevideo, Bs As, Assuncion, Santa Cruz de La Sierra and Santiago). With a Hub on GIG, plans could be changed.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
Hey, great route map there, very helpful. Didn't even remotely know that GOL had that many non-GRU/GIG routes.

In fact Gol hub's is nowadays CGH. But they really have a lot of flights from CNF, BSB, SSA for example. Gol network is very smart as they believe in regional service like GIG-VIX, SSA-AJU, REC-Petrolina, FOR-THE, BEL-MCP, RBR-PVH, NAV-JOI, NAV-POA. Smart move!

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4324 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
And with the todays press release from Gol stating they will start a new company on Mexico, could be a strong addition to SkyTeam alliance.

Although, setting up an LCC to compete with a Skyteam carrier doesn't sound like a favorable move .

You're right. I forget about the local SkyTeam carrier (AM).

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineN77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4249 times:

Sooner rather than later, GOL will run out of domestic routes to exploit in the home market. Adding high-yield codeshare pax from DL, AF, and later, CO, will go a long way to helping it compete against bigger players, and build a reputation should they decide to expand beyond Brazil.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4207 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting N77014 (Reply 14):
Sooner rather than later, GOL will run out of domestic routes to exploit in the home market. Adding high-yield codeshare pax from DL, AF, and later, CO, will go a long way to helping it compete against bigger players, and build a reputation should they decide to expand beyond Brazil.

Good point. Also they could improve the code share in the future in a way to their pax can board to US and Europe thru DL,AF,CO and others. If they start a FF program, it become so important to keep pax into it's services a big network with international options. In the future they can start service to ATL for example, using DL extensive network on the US.

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4198 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 11):
I didn't think Navitaire could cope with codeshare, as normally LCC's don't codeshare

Hey, if WN's really, really old system can do it, Open Skies should



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4148 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Hey, if WN's really, really old system can do it, Open Skies should

WN's really really old system is based on the original PARS system (it was originally Braniff's COWBOY system, I believe), and was built originally with interlining in mind. Navitaire is a new-build system where the possibility of interlining was never taken into account, because their customers didn't require it - it is/was anathema to LCC's. I'm not saying it's impossible, not at all, but it might need a bit of work.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4096 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
Good point. Also they could improve the code share in the future in a way to their pax can board to US and Europe thru DL,AF,CO and others. If they start a FF program, it become so important to keep pax into it's services a big network with international options. In the future they can start service to ATL for example, using DL extensive network on the US.

I truly doubt Gol will ever fly to Atlanta. I also don't think they will be operating anything larger than a 737. It would go entirely agaist their business model that keeps them profitable. I wouldn't be surprised to see them flying to Miami in the next 3-5 years, but with 73Gs from Manaus and/or Belem.



a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4031 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
I truly doubt Gol will ever fly to Atlanta. I also don't think they will be operating anything larger than a 737. It would go entirely agaist their business model that keeps them profitable. I wouldn't be surprised to see them flying to Miami in the next 3-5 years, but with 73Gs from Manaus and/or Belem.

You could be right. But Mark don't you think that one day (as N77014 stated) the domestic market will be saturated and will be minor conditions for improvement (besides there are several little cities without regular service that could be reached by E-Jets for example), and as you probably agree there is a limited market O&D BEL-MIA or MAO-MIA (already with some frequencies). With a own fleet of around 30 aircrafts (plus other leased) probably Gol will be in condition to establish a long haul fleet. After South America i believe they will start plans to add international flights to its network. ATL with a good code share with DL could be one option but not the only one.
What do you think ?

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineTR763 From Brazil, joined Mar 2001, 779 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3977 times:

I agree with you Lipe. I wouldn't be surprised if in 5 or 6 years we see:
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00004518.jpg

Awesome isn't it???

Best Rgs!
TR763



Transbrasil
User currently offlineFewsolarge From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3929 times:

Assuming they do hook up tightly with AF, DL and SkyTeam, I would be surprised if they or DL didn't start ATL-BSB. (Naturally, based on connection opportunities on both ends). Another interesting consideration: How attractive will FLL become in comparison to MIA for any potential SkyTeam affiliate in South America?

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11976 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3921 times:

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 21):
Assuming they do hook up tightly with AF, DL and SkyTeam, I would be surprised if they or DL didn't start ATL-BSB

ATL-BSB? I feel quite safe in saying that ATL-BSB isn't going to happen any time soon. I personally doubt it will ever happen. There is virtually no market for it.

In the U.S., MIA is pretty much the only gateway that could support nonstop or direct flights to BSB, and probably (hopefully) will be getting that flight in the next 2-3 years via AA 757s to MIA.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3890 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 21):
Assuming they do hook up tightly with AF, DL and SkyTeam, I would be surprised if they or DL didn't start ATL-BSB. (Naturally, based on connection opportunities on both ends). Another interesting consideration: How attractive will FLL become in comparison to MIA for any potential SkyTeam affiliate in South America?

Fewsolarge, i have to disagree with you. BSB is a major airport, yes it is. But if you take a more accurate look you will see that BSB have routes like BSB-CGH, BSB-GIG, and also BSB-MAO, BSB-PVH, BSB-GYN, and many routes to Northeast (specially JJ). They only connect domestic pax but it's not a strong O&D Market for international flights. I agree with Commavia that only a MIA flight has market for the US. To Europe, a single LIS 3 times per week flight will take care of demand. Also BSB is not a touristic or congress destination.

More than 10,000 top salaries on BSB are in fact people that generally every week come back to its cities (mainly Rio and São Paulo) and they are more than 10% of all BSB pax. Other 200,000 monthly pax come from MAO, BEL, THE, SLS, FOR, RBR, PVH, MCP and other cities to Sao Paulo, Rio and south thru BSB (due to the lack of non stop flights).
Without them, BSB is comparable to GIG and even SSA.

I don't expect non stop international flights to BSB on the next 3 years. Could be one day a BSB-FOR-MIA.

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3870 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Quoting TR763 (Reply 20):
Awesome isn't it???

Best Rgs!
TR763

Amazing, may be in 2011 we can travel on a long haul flight with even a GOL Biz service. On the speed they are growing, i do expect they start long hauls on the near future.

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 Thucydides : And let's not forget NW at NRT...
26 N77014 : Correct. But today's B737's are high performance aircraft that could make regional routes to CCS, BOG, EZE, SCL, LIM, etc, all within reach of severa
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