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777F Cargo Door?  
User currently offlineUPS Pilot From United States of America, joined May 1999, 871 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4888 times:

I was looking at a 777F sales ad today. The Main deck cargo door is behind the wing rather in front. Nobody could answer why? The only freighter by Boeing, Airbus or MDD/Douglas to date is the 747. Thats because of the upper deck. I thought it would be weight distribution while loading. We have all seen MD-11's doing wheelies on the cargo ramp. The weight would still be in the rear of the aircraft coming in thru the cargo door. Does anybody know why Boeing would put the main deck door in the back?

The pic here shows the door but not to the extreme that I had seen in the sales ad.

www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/pf/pf_freighterback.html

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4109 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4867 times:

The 777 doesn't have a rear engine, so wheelies aren't really a problem. I'm sure Boeing put some thought into the location of the door, it may in fact be the best place for loading a 777.

User currently offlinePSAjet17 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4856 times:

I would assume that when loading the upper deck, the pallets would be push forward and then the aft would be loaded. That should provide enough forward ballast to keep the aircraft from doing a wheelie.

User currently offlinePictues From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4839 times:

Also there is a device called a tail stand to prevent that from happening, or they teather the nose wheel to the ground. Those were forgotten on the planes that went onto their tail.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4830 times:

I would also assume the door could be placed up front, or a second door added, per operator demand, no?


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineUPS Pilot From United States of America, joined May 1999, 871 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4627 times:

The 777 has no rear engine, mmmm, I never knew that  Wink I'm aware of the loading methods and items used to prevent wheelies. The comment regarding wheelies and the cargo door was a speculation of why the door would be in the rear. The question is why would Boeing put the door there? The 747 has a reason to have the rear cargo door but all other freighters have the door ahead of the wing. MD11,DC-8, A300/310, 72, 75, 76 all have the door in front of the wing.

User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1710 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4594 times:

Could it be that when the cargo is loaded, it would need to be moved forward before the next pallet could be loaded, therefore the actual loading (except the first pallet) would be forward of the CG, not aft. With this in mind, there shouldn't be any willies.

Cheers


User currently offlineB707Stu From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4586 times:

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 6):
With this in mind, there shouldn't be any willies.

That's the reason. Thanks Shenzhen, your "willies" for "wheelies" put a smile on my face.

 Big grin


User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1729 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4428 times:

Quoting UPS Pilot (Thread starter):
The Main deck cargo door is behind the wing rather in front. Nobody could answer why?

This allows one door design to be used on both freighter and combi configurations.


User currently offlineAbirdA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 296 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4326 times:

Quoting PSAjet17 (Reply 2):
I would assume that when loading the upper deck, the pallets would be push forward and then the aft would be loaded. That should provide enough forward ballast to keep the aircraft from doing a wheelie.

My first thought exactly, although I'll take it a little further. With a cargo door forward of the wing, loaders must send the first pallets or containers to the rear of the aircraft and then work toward the front. this keeps the center of gravity as far aft as possible for as long as possible. With an aft cargo door like that depicted on the 777LRF, the first pallets or containers will be sent to the front of the aircraft to facilitate the continued loading of the aircraft. This, of course, will keep the center of gravity as far forward as possible for as long as possible. Kudos to Boeing for finding a simple way to insure against a load-induced tip of the plane.

Quoting Tod (Reply 8):
This allows one door design to be used on both freighter and combi configurations.

Not quite. For some time now it has been clear that the FAA will NOT certify any new designs for Combi aircraft due to the concern of increased risk to passengers' lives in the event of unplanned impacts that could jar the cargo loose.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26601 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4287 times:

Quoting AbirdA (Reply 9):
Not quite. For some time now it has been clear that the FAA will NOT certify any new designs for Combi aircraft due to the concern of increased risk to passengers' lives in the event of unplanned impacts that could jar the cargo loose.

They will certify them with a fixed firewall between the two cabins. Still, unlikely a carrier would want that



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAbirdA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 296 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
They will certify them with a fixed firewall between the two cabins. Still, unlikely a carrier would want that

If that is true, my apologies for providing somewhat inaccurate info. I was under the impression that there was no way the FAA would be certifying the carriage of pax and freight on the same deck of any new design. Not doubting you, just curious to learn more about current Combi policies. Do you have a link to info on this, N1120A?


User currently offlineTribird1011 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

The B747 also doesn't have a rear engine, but...

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/065821/M/

As mentioned above, the reason for the wheelie was due to the lack of use of the tail-stand.


User currently offlineHighFlyer9790 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4215 times:

Quoting UPS Pilot (Thread starter):
The only freighter by Boeing, Airbus or MDD/Douglas to date is the 747

If i understand this correctly, what about all the other frieghters????
757F
767F
etc.

did you mean with the cargo loading door in the rear?

Please clarify what you meant UPS Pilot



121
User currently offlineUPS Pilot From United States of America, joined May 1999, 871 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4119 times:

High Flyer, the 747 is the only heavy freighter with the door behind the wing instead of in front of it.

I figured out the reason (I think) It doesn't specify if it will use a 9 g net or a ridgid barrier between the flight deck and the cargo main deck. Looking at both the 9 g net would not allow for the stretch if needed between the cargo door and the flight deck. The ridgid barrier does not need the extra room but it does allow for more cargo space. This typically means there is one position to the left of the door on the main deck then all others are from the door down. It doesn't appear there is enough space to allow for this if the door is placed to the front of the wing.


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 40
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4109 times:

what kind of contur the 777 can be loaded? Q7 (MDSCD) buildet PMC´s or just Q6 ?


Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineLHZXF From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4063 times:

Many interesting points raised & discussed. I personally can't wait to see 777F in service.

User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2820 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4024 times:

It says that the freighter has a range of less than 5000NM. I thought it was based on the 772LR?

User currently offlineAbirdA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 296 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3982 times:

Quoting Glom (Reply 17):
It says that the freighter has a range of less than 5000NM. I thought it was based on the 772LR?

Dedicated freight aircraft, if i understand correctly, tend to dedicate a higher portion of their MTOW to fixed payload than do their passenger counterparts. Therefore, the maximum fuel load is decreased. In short, freight companies find it more desirable to carry larger weights over just marginally long distances rather than taking low loads over the longest routes.


User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3663 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3930 times:
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Quoting AbirdA (Reply 11):
I was under the impression that there was no way the FAA would be certifying the carriage of pax and freight on the same deck of any new design. Not doubting you, just curious to learn more about current Combi policies.

Alaska had plans to convert 4 of their 737-400s into combi aircraft with a fixed configuration of 70 pax and 4 pallet positions.

http://www.alaskasworld.com/Newsroom...s/ASstories/AS_20040714_163719.asp

Considering that no 737-400 combis were built by Boeing, the converted 737-400s would need to be certified by the FAA. Alaska would not have considered it if there was no possibility of it being certified. They also considered the 737-700, which Boeing already makes in a fixed combi configuration for the US Navy or the 737-300, both which would have a fixed configuration of 70 pax and 3 pallet spaces. Again, it would not be considered as an option if the FAA wasn't going to certify it.

AS Eyeing B-737-200C Replacement (by EA CO AS Dec 26 2003 in Civil Aviation)

Alaska To Use Modified 734's To Replace 732 Combi (by ANC737 Jul 22 2004 in Civil Aviation)


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