Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
UAL To Outsource Meteorologists!  
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

In their quest to cut costs and emerge from bankruptcy, UAL says it will outsource its team of 20 meteorologists this fall.(Newswires)

I guess they figure they have "weathered the storm" of the last 2 1/2 years, and don't need them anymore.

How much do meteorologists make at an airline anyway?

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

It's about time! Meteorological information has grown better and less expensive in recent years. This step will probably save UAL several $million per year.

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21625 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

Only 20 meteorologists for all of UA? I would have there'd be more than that.

In any case, this was probably inevitable. There are plenty of third-party weather sources available these days.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

I met some of them a few years ago...small dept, and with all the computers and stuff these days I guess you don't really need them. I doubt this will save a lot of money though.

User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3276 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2498 times:

Since when did meteorologists work for airlines? You can't even see them on Ch. 9! The should've been axed during Q1 2003! No wonder UAL has had (and will continue to have) problems!


.......
User currently offlineCirrostratus From Italy, joined May 2005, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2476 times:

Would someone answer the question about how much they make, I'd like to know too, thanks.

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2460 times:

From salary.com:
"The median expected salary for a typical Meteorologist in Chicago, IL is $88,077."

Of course, the cost to UAL is much higher than the salary. Don't forget payroll taxes, rent, computers, etc. I would expect the department was probably costing UAL $3-5 million per year.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2346 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
Of course, the cost to UAL is much higher than the salary. Don't forget payroll taxes, rent, computers, etc. I would expect the department was probably costing UAL $3-5 million per year.

What I think is being overlooked here is what this move will likely cost them in lost fuel savings. Internal forecasts can be more accurate than NWS forecasts, since the airline Met guy/gal is focusing strictly on the airline's route system and weather's effect on it, versus the NWS who has broader and more varied responsibilities, aviation being down on the list.

So how does this affect fuel consumption? Less accurate forecasts mean that destination alternates get designated and fuel ("weight") is loaded aboard as a result. You lose a certain percentage of every 1,000 pounds you carry, and at today's prices with the number of flights in a day/month/year, it can add up quickly.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2325 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 7):

What I think is being overlooked here is what this move will likely cost them in lost fuel savings. Internal forecasts can be more accurate than NWS forecasts, since the airline Met guy/gal is focusing strictly on the airline's route system and weather's effect on it, versus the NWS who has broader and more varied responsibilities, aviation being down on the list.

I don't believe that UAL will be relying on NWS forecasts.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2323 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 8):
I don't believe that UAL will be relying on NWS forecasts.

I hope not; sometimes the TAF doesn't get amended until the thunderstorm is over the airport fence....  Wink


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2294 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
From salary.com:
"The median expected salary for a typical Meteorologist in Chicago, IL is $88,077."

Don't use that number... it is heavily skewed by the fact that Chicago is such a high TV DMA. Tom Skilling alone would be enough to heavily skew the median salary for meteorolgists in Chicago. If I had to ballpark it, I'd say $30-60k depending on experience. Depending which meteorology sweatshop UA contracts with the starting salaries are barely $20k... No doubt UA will save doing this, but it won't be enough to solve their financial problems by any means. Everyone else has done it already to my knowledge, except for NWA.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 7):
Internal forecasts can be more accurate than NWS forecasts, since the airline Met guy/gal is focusing strictly on the airline's route system and weather's effect on it, versus the NWS who has broader and more varied responsibilities, aviation being down on the list.

I'm sure they'll contract it out to a meteorology sweatshop, a la AccuWeather, Weatherbank, etc. where some recent grads who have to work 2nd jobs just to make ends meet will be doing it. I know a few good people working at those sweatshops, but overall I'm sure the quality will slip somewhat from in-house. On the other hand, I'm sure there will be performance guarantees in the contracts. These companies though are the equivalent of an Express/Connection/Airlink partner though... and take that with a grain of salt.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11613 posts, RR: 61
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2279 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 7):
Internal forecasts can be more accurate than NWS forecasts, since the airline Met guy/gal is focusing strictly on the airline's route system and weather's effect on it, versus the NWS who has broader and more varied responsibilities, aviation being down on the list.

I doubt the NWS will be providing their meteorology information -- they will outsource this work to a vendor to provide them with real-time weather data. AA and DL did this a few years back, after 9/11 -- both of them eliminated their in-house meteorology departments and jointly started a company up in Oklahoma to do their weather tracking.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 11):
both of them eliminated their in-house meteorology departments and jointly started a company up in Oklahoma to do their weather tracking.

That would be one of the "meteorology sweatshops" I mentioned... and those are the reason I bailed on meteorology as a career choice. There are a couple out there in the OKC area. I guess they picked the cheapest possible place in the nation to put them to pay their employees even less... in a place where young crazy fresh-from-school storm chaser types would dream of settling. NWA sells their services from their in-house Met. Dept for outside use... evidentally to raise some money. Links to it are on their website.

There is also a firm in Houston (which pays their employees MUCH better) which caters heavily to the Bizjet populace. They even set you up with the FBO's at your destination and whatnot. Air Routing I believe they are called.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11613 posts, RR: 61
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 12):
There are a couple out there in the OKC area. I guess they picked the cheapest possible place in the nation to put them to pay their employees even less... in a place where young crazy fresh-from-school storm chaser types would dream of settling.

I believe that the joint company AA and DL set up was located in a more rural location, not OKC, and I highly doubt that they picked Oklahoma because of cheap labor.

They probably picked Oklahoma because it is home to arguably the best meteorology school in the country, at the University of Oklahoma, and because it is pretty much the center of meteorology in America.


User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5235 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2114 times:

There is a reason for an airline to either a) have its own weather department or b) to outsource to a company that specializes in aviation forecasting, as AA and DL have done.

Whereas we just need to know what is happening on the ground, airlines need to know what is happening at 35,000, especially with oil back at $60 a barrel.

And it just isn't flying conditions. AA used to say that it wanted to be the last airline to clear aircraft from an airport that was about to see severe thunderstorms or heavy snow, and the first to land planes once the weather improved. So, it needed very accurate predicitons as to timing of weather movements.


User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2093 times:

If anyone has ever seen the weatherman on Fox News in Chicago, Rick DiMaio, he was a meteorologist at United for 10 years prior to joining Fox in 1995:

http://www.foxchicago.com/_ezpost/data/13595.shtml

Part of his bio:

"Rick DiMaio joined FOX News Chicago in September 1995. Currently he is the weathercaster for "FOX News at Noon" and "FOX News at 9."

Rick came to FOX News from United Airlines, where he had been the staff meteorologist for ten years. During his tenure at United, Rick designed and produced an International Pilots Weather Manual for the airline's European and North Atlantic operations. He also produced various in-house case studies on diverse weather conditions and supervised and co-published a one-year thunderstorm study."


User currently offlineBeauing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1849 times:

There is a story on this in Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/associatedpres...feeds/ap/2005/07/06/ap2124635.html


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6812 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1810 times:

So much for the specious claims of unions protecting jobs. And it's the TWU no less. Small world.

User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2093 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1797 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 11):
AA and DL did this a few years back, after 9/11 -- both of them eliminated their in-house meteorology departments

Where do people come up with this nonsense? Do they just make it up because it sounds good to them? DL has not farmed out its meteorology department. The group is still staffed by DL professionals and they work at DL's OCC in ATL.


User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1683 times:

American Airlines utilizes WeatherNews Americas which has their new domestic office on the site of the new National Weather Center. http://nwc.ou.edu/index.php

Not sure of when they switched, but when I was attending OU in the SoM, we were working with AA in the development of CAPS for use in real-time forecasting for the DFW hub. http://www.caps.ou.edu/wx/p/r/spmeso/adas/

Anyway...the location is here in Norman off of Highway 9 on the South Campus area. Not really a rural area.


User currently offlineTokyoNarita From Palau, joined Aug 2003, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 1601 times:

So...anyone has credible information as to whom UA is going to outsource their WX department to?

TokyoNarita.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
UAL To Make Bid For NW? posted Thu Nov 16 2006 16:16:08 by B777A340Fan
Airbus To Outsource 3.5bill$ A-350XWB Work! posted Tue Nov 14 2006 07:50:05 by Bringiton
Delta Asks To Outsource Tech Maintenance posted Wed Aug 9 2006 21:16:57 by KarlB737
ANA Asks UAL To Use T-1 Gates At ORD, But.. posted Thu Jul 27 2006 23:47:57 by Airfinair
UAL To Pull Out Of Chapter 11 In February posted Sun Jan 22 2006 01:52:44 by BA747
UAL To SXM posted Tue Dec 6 2005 06:26:29 by Dalfannyc
NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not? posted Wed Sep 28 2005 02:57:34 by Legacytravel
Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo. posted Tue Aug 30 2005 19:26:34 by Kjet12
Amenities On UAL To Asia In Economy posted Sun May 15 2005 00:37:29 by Sfo212
US To Outsource Ramp In MKE To Skyway Airlines posted Sat Mar 12 2005 00:15:18 by AirTran737